Screw in the toe of modern Ping irons

[sui generis]

Is that Ping's swingweight adjustment method? Is there a set of different weight screws or is there a cavity for lead or tungsten powder?

[Nessism]

Ping tunes swingweight with both the tip screw weight and hosel weight.

 

[cardigan]

There have also been a few threads were owners have removed the screw to add stuff to impact swing weight with varying degrees of success.  I think that most have mentioned that while inside is not full there is already a sticky substance inside.  I'm guessing something like hot melt to tune the sound.

[Socrates]

14 hours ago, Nessism said:

Ping tunes swingweight with both the tip screw weight and hosel weight.

 

i wish I could meet the people that came up with the current Ping hosel size and weight port and beat them with a bag of CTP weights.😬

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

i wish I could meet the people that came up with the current Ping hosel size and weight port and beat them with a bag of CTP weights.😬

 

Wishon put a slot in his hosel weights so a screwdriver could be used to crack it loose.  With the Ping style there is no easy way to remove the weight once it's in there.  

[paulman21]

17 hours ago, sui generis said:

Is that Ping's swingweight adjustment method? Is there a set of different weight screws or is there a cavity for lead or tungsten powder?

It's part of it. As shown in the second post, there is a weight in the hosel as well. Adding weight only to the toe screw would pull the CG toward the toe. So the same amount of weight is added in the hosel so the CG stays centered

[Billfitz]

Even if you had choices in the material of the tip screw ranging from magnesium to depleted uranium the effect on the weight distribution in the head and swing weight would be minuscule. If the screw is covering an access hole for foam or other materials injected into the head then it's serving a useful purpose. If not then it's a cosmetic treatment. That would be typical of what you see in virtually every industry. When one company does it eventually they all do, whether it serves a real purpose or not. Club manufacturers don't want to lose sales because other companies have baubles they they do not.

[Socrates]

38 minutes ago, Billfitz said:

Even if you had choices in the material of the tip screw ranging from magnesium to depleted uranium the effect on the weight distribution in the head and swing weight would be minuscule. If the screw is covering an access hole for foam or other materials injected into the head then it's serving a useful purpose. If not then it's a cosmetic treatment. That would be typical of what you see in virtually every industry. When one company does it eventually they all do, whether it serves a real purpose or not. Club manufacturers don't want to lose sales because other companies have baubles they they do not.

The reality is that they use it to fine tune the SW of the club.  I've seen weight screws that are only a couple of grams to ones that are 8+ grams.  Same with the hosel weights.  Aluminum to tungsten.  Just makes it a real PITA for anyone who wants to adjust the SW later on almost forcing people to send the clubs back to Ping. 

[Nessism]

20 minutes ago, Socrates said:

The reality is that they use it to fine tune the SW of the club.  I've seen weight screws that are only a couple of grams to ones that are 8+ grams.  Same with the hosel weights.  Aluminum to tungsten.  Just makes it a real PITA for anyone who wants to adjust the SW later on almost forcing people to send the clubs back to Ping. 

 

This is the correct answer.  Those screws/weights are to adjust swingweight.

 

I'm going to reshaft a set of G425's and removed the screw to see what's inside.  The screw is 4 grams and hollow.  The port in the head is shallow.  There isn't much room for much of anything other than maybe a slightly longer screw.  I stuffed lead inside the hollow center of the screw and that gave me about 1 extra swingweight point.  If anyone knows of an aftermarket source for the heavier screws please share.  

 

 

.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Nessism

[paulman21]

1 hour ago, Billfitz said:

Even if you had choices in the material of the tip screw ranging from magnesium to depleted uranium the effect on the weight distribution in the head and swing weight would be minuscule. If the screw is covering an access hole for foam or other materials injected into the head then it's serving a useful purpose. If not then it's a cosmetic treatment. That would be typical of what you see in virtually every industry. When one company does it eventually they all do, whether it serves a real purpose or not. Club manufacturers don't want to lose sales because other companies have baubles they they do not.

 

huh? you only need 2 grams to add one swing weight "point". As said above, toe weights can be a few grams to around 10g. That's JUST weight screw. Balance that out with a hosel weight and you can achieve a huge range of swingweights. The toe/hosel weights can also bring up head weights that are on the low end of the tolerance spectrum.

Yes, adding 2g in the toe will alter the CG a miniscule amount. But they have the ability to balance out the weight addition, so why not? I would rather a company actually take the time to adjust the head weight, through whatever means they have available, to target my specs. Most OEMs will just take a head, cut the shaft to length, add the grip, and ship it off. Whatever the swing weight is, it is. You actually have the ability to target a swing weight with Ping clubs.

[Billfitz]

IMO one point is about as significant as a fart in a hurricane. Believe what you want, but from my vantage point screws of this type started showing up en masse after PXG came along with them, and even with PXG they're eye candy, since you can't do anything with them. 

[Socrates]

58 minutes ago, Billfitz said:

IMO one point is about as significant as a fart in a hurricane. Believe what you want, but from my vantage point screws of this type started showing up en masse after PXG came along with them, and even with PXG they're eye candy, since you can't do anything with them. 

Yup, believe what you want. 

[Nessism]

The CTP went away starting with the spring face Ping's.  Having a chunk of weight in the middle of the face reduces the face flexing feature.  For that reason, Ping moved to a combo toe screw and hosel weight.

[TonyDAnnunzio]

11 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

This is the correct answer.  Those screws/weights are to adjust swingweight.

 

I'm going to reshaft a set of G425's and removed the screw to see what's inside.  The screw is 4 grams and hollow.  The port in the head is shallow.  There isn't much room for much of anything other than maybe a slightly longer screw.  I stuffed lead inside the hollow center of the screw and that gave me about 1 extra swingweight point.  If anyone knows of an aftermarket source for the heavier screws please share.  

 

 

.

Do you know the thread size and pitch for the screws?

 

They appear to be a set screw.  For the first time ever, I could not find something I was looking for at McMaster-Carr...  I did, however, find some torx set screws on Amazon.  Even if you couldn't find something readily available a machine shop could whip something up in no time.

 

 

[Nessism]

1 minute ago, TonyDAnnunzio said:

Do you know the thread size and pitch for the screws?

 

They appear to be a set screw.  For the first time ever, I could not find something I was looking for at McMaster-Carr...  I did, however, find some torx set screws on Amazon.  Even if you couldn't find something readily available a machine shop could whip something up in no time.

 

 

 

The trick would be to get some tungsten screws.  With hollow point screws like my heads have I can stuff them with lead to increase weight.  There are limits, though.  With tungsten, the weight potential goes way up.  

[animalgolfs]

23 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

The trick would be to get some tungsten screws.  With hollow point screws like my heads have I can stuff them with lead to increase weight.  There are limits, though.  With tungsten, the weight potential goes way up.  

Is it possible to increase MOI with increased toe / hosel weights? 

[Socrates]

13 minutes ago, animalgolfs said:

Is it possible to increase MOI with increased toe / hosel weights? 

Not worth the effort or likely measurable.  That's the kind of stuff that needs to be designed into the club.  Just worry about the SW.

[animalgolfs]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

That's the kind of stuff that needs to be designed into the club. 

That is sorta my line of questioning...if they removed weight behind the face & spread it out to the toe / hosel area? I have i59 & just recently hit the i525 - 

 

Hypothetically if headweight of 7i was 275g & they designed the heads 10g less at 265g - yet moved that weighting 5g toe / 5g hosel[incorporating the SW as well]. Obviously 10g is just hypothetical- is there a weight that could change MOI ?

 

Could this increase MOI - sorta like the 26g back weight of the G425 driver?  Is it possible? 

 

Something is definitely different in the i59 & i525 MOI wise imo - I don't know if my scenario holds merit

 

Edit: obviously I'm talking about a small frame size vs a large frame size as well. Is ping design implementation of G series forgiveness in S / i frame size by using toe / hosel weighting ....just not for SW purposes 

Edited January 27, 2022 by animalgolfs

[Nessism]

Busted down the 425's and found the following...

 

Hollow steel weight = 4 grams

Solid steel weight = 6 grams

Hollow tungsten weight = 8 grams

 

I trust @Socrates in that lighter weights, aluminum, would be sub 4 grams, and solid tungsten would be 10+.  

 

I also confirmed that stuffing a hollow weight with lead adds 1 swingweight point.  

[TonyDAnnunzio]

20 hours ago, Nessism said:

Busted down the 425's and found the following...

 

Hollow steel weight = 4 grams

Solid steel weight = 6 grams

Hollow tungsten weight = 8 grams

 

I trust @Socrates in that lighter weights, aluminum, would be sub 4 grams, and solid tungsten would be 10+.  

 

I also confirmed that stuffing a hollow weight with lead adds 1 swingweight point.  

 

I found some tungsten "blanks" on Amazon that are used for weights in pine derby cars that are relatively inexpensive.  I was thinking along the lines that you could take them to a machine shop and have them machined to size you want...  then I did a search on the "difficulty of machining tungsten" and the first result was "incredibly difficult" due to the fact most machine tools are made of tungsten...  there goes that idea...  LOL!!!

 

I then found this place that offers tungsten set screws...  Tungsten Set Screws | Tungsten (extreme-bolt.com)  it may be worth it to shoot them an email if it is really something you wanted to pursue.

[Nessism]

I'm kind'a screwed on my 425 rebuild; swingweight is too low on most clubs in the set.  And when I say too low, I'm talking about some in the C8 range.  Moving from DG105 to Recoil 95 shafts.  Tip weights are the obvious answer, but that's easier said than done with graphite shafts.   Man, some aftermarket tungsten weights would make things so much easier.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Nessism

[Socrates]

8 minutes ago, Nessism said:

I'm kind'a screwed on my 425 rebuild; swingweight is too low on most clubs in the set.  And when I say too low, I'm talking about some in the C8 range.  Moving from DG105 to Recoil 95 shafts.  Tip weights are the obvious answer, but that's easier said than done with graphite shafts.   Man, some aftermarket tungsten weights would make things so much easier.

Your friend.

 

[drumdude96]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:50 PM, Nessism said:

 

The trick would be to get some tungsten screws.  With hollow point screws like my heads have I can stuff them with lead to increase weight.  There are limits, though.  With tungsten, the weight potential goes way up.  

What's the ID of the recess in the toe screws? And are the screws big enough that you could drill that recess out to 9/32" to accept a Wishon tungsten weight?

[Nessism]

12 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

What's the ID of the recess in the toe screws? And are the screws big enough that you could drill that recess out to 9/32" to accept a Wishon tungsten weight?

 

I'll figure out thread size and pitch in the next day or so, but I'm not game for drilling on the heads.  I'm a club ho and will likely only keep the clubs for a season or two.  

[wobgon]

Are the heel weight like in the i59 visible when re shafting.....I was told no. What say you?

[Socrates]

1 minute ago, Nessism said:

 

I'll figure out thread size and pitch in the next day or so, but I'm not game for drilling on the heads.  I'm a club ho and will likely only keep the clubs for a season or two.  

Do you know what the material the hosel plug is?  Aluminum?  In a set of G700's that I did, I replaced the aluminum plug with a lead tip weight that I cut to size.  Can't remember if I squished it down a bit to fatten up the weight to make it a snug fit.  Alternatively, you could use the tungsten graphite shaft tip weights in concert with the lead tip weights.

[Nessism]

1 minute ago, wobgon said:

Are the heel weight like in the i59 visible when re shafting.....I was told no. What say you?

 

Yes, they are visible.  There is a plastic cap over the top of the weights, unlike my 410's which didn't have them, and you can read the weight number in grams.  Most of mine are 4 grams.  You could dig the plastic cap off the weight, but once done, I know of no way to remove the weight.  As mentioned previously, there is no slot in the weight to drop a screwdriver blade into, so they can be cracked loose.  

[Nessism]

1 minute ago, Socrates said:

Do you know what the material the hosel plug is?  Aluminum?  In a set of G700's that I did, I replaced the aluminum plug with a lead tip weight that I cut to size.  Can't remember if I squished it down a bit to fatten up the weight to make it a snug fit.  Alternatively, you could use the tungsten graphite shaft tip weights in concert with the lead tip weights.

 

Don't think they are aluminum, except for maybe the lightest plug version.  On my 410's, I tried drilling into the plug, and it felt like tungsten, because the drill bit screamed in pain at the idea of drilling into that diamond hard slug.  

[animalgolfs]

7 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Yes, they are visible.  There is a plastic cap over the top of the weights, unlike my 410's which didn't have them, and you can read the weight number in grams.  Most of mine are 4 grams.  You could dig the plastic cap off the weight, but once done, I know of no way to remove the weight.  As mentioned previously, there is no slot in the weight to drop a screwdriver blade into, so they can be cracked loose.  

Mine had no such plastic cap....that was bare metal

 

There were blue caps on the tips

Edited January 29, 2022 by animalgolfs

[Nessism]

 

Just now, animalgolfs said:

Mine had no such plastic cap....that was bare metal

What club?