Unraked Bunkers

[Newby]

8 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

I was in the minority that did the right thing. 

 

My complaints were mostly always met with a "well it's a hazard" response. So Ok hazard it is! 

But there is no such things as 'hazards' these days and they don't meet the definition of a 'penalty area'.

 

However Rule 1.2a expects (inter alia): All players to play in the spirit of the game by :

• Taking good care of the course – for example, by replacing divots, smoothing bunkers, repairing ball-marks, and not causing unnecessary damage to the course.

Further, the Committee may invoke a penalty for not smoothing bunkers. 

[Foxx]

5 hours ago, Newby said:

But there is no such things as 'hazards' these days and they don't meet the definition of a 'penalty area'.

 

However Rule 1.2a expects (inter alia): All players to play in the spirit of the game by :

• Taking good care of the course – for example, by replacing divots, smoothing bunkers, repairing ball-marks, and not causing unnecessary damage to the course.

Further, the Committee may invoke a penalty for not smoothing bunkers. 

 

Good luck with that. If you can't beat them join them.

[Foxx]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

It is not a hazard, it is a bunker, and every player is responsible for smoothing all the undulations they make in a bunker WITH A RAKE.

 

Which most dont.

[Newby]

45 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Which most dont.

They do over here. Perhaps etiquette has been abandoned over there.

[EmperorPenguin]

Even worse is when someone even grabs a rake and fakes raking the bunker.  This is an abomination.

[Foxx]

8 hours ago, Newby said:

They do over here. Perhaps etiquette has been abandoned over there.

 

Yes after covid, hardly anybody rakes.

[Argonne69]

52 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Yes after covid, hardly anybody rakes.

 

Bah. You must play some really crummy courses. I've played over 400 courses since the pandemic ended, and while there are certainly more unraked bunkers than I'd like, they're still very rare. 

 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

I love raking the sand after a shot. I find it very satisfying when it’s all smoothed out and nice lines for the next hack to be in it. 

[Argonne69]

7 hours ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

I love raking the sand after a shot. I find it very satisfying when it’s all smoothed out and nice lines for the next hack to be in it. 

 

Ever leave a bunker in much better shape than when you entered it? If a bunker is compacted, I try to break up the sand as I rake it, making sure to not leave any rake lines. The key is to push the sand with the rake, not pull it.

 

However, after taking pride in my handiwork, I question whether I should create an area in the bunker that's in better condition than the rest of the bunker. Some player behind me is going to get luck when they have a perfect lie in the sand, rather than an iffy lie a few feet away. Luck of the draw I guess.

 

[davep043]

On 4/14/2024 at 9:33 AM, Foxx said:

 

Which most dont.

I haven't had the same experience, most bunkers I've had to play from have been raked.  Its not universal, but it never was during my first 50 years of playing golf

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

37 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Ever leave a bunker in much better shape than when you entered it? If a bunker is compacted, I try to break up the sand as I rake it, making sure to not leave any rake lines. The key is to push the sand with the rake, not pull it.

 

However, after taking pride in my handiwork, I question whether I should create an area in the bunker that's in better condition than the rest of the bunker. Some player behind me is going to get luck when they have a perfect lie in the sand, rather than an iffy lie a few feet away. Luck of the draw I guess.

 

I try my absolute best to leave it better for the next guy. But I  definitely push and pull the sand when raking it. 

[Nels55]

I have always raked bunkers and I usually clean up someone else's footprints and displaced sand.  It is simply the right thing to do.  

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

Ever leave a bunker in much better shape than when you entered it? 

Yes, was taught that early on, leave the golf course in better shape than you found it.  Rake, fill divots, repair ball marks, pickup trash, and more.  

Applies to life even more so.  

Apparently others feel they are exempt from showing consideration to others , while complaining others don’t show consideration to them.  

[Imp]

I played a private 9 hole course yesterday as a guest and it was full to the brim of membership playing. I went into 5 maybe 6 traps on my 2 loops through for 18 holes. I saw maybe 5 footprints that were not raked ( in which I also raked on my way out). 

 

I turned to the member I was a guest of and even mentioned it. It was a WONDERFUL experience that I have hardly ever witnessed in almost any course private/public. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Imp said:

I turned to the member I was a guest of and even mentioned it. It was a WONDERFUL experience that I have hardly ever witnessed in almost any course private/public. 

 

Wow.

 

I cannot be grateful enough that on our private courses (97% of all courses) bunkers are mainly rather well raked. Certainly there are persons who think it is someone else's responsibility to care for the course but those are the same persons who throw their litter on the streets so it is no wonder and nothing can be done to mend their terribly poor upbringing.

[Imp]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Wow.

 

I cannot be grateful enough that on our private courses (97% of all courses) bunkers are mainly rather well raked. Certainly there are persons who think it is someone else's responsibility to care for the course but those are the same persons who throw their litter on the streets so it is no wonder and nothing can be done to mend their terribly poor upbringing.

It's a Donald Ross course, 9 holes, great layout, and equal challenge, and I think they take GREAT pride in being the 2nd best 9 hole course in the US. 🙂 The members really like the gem they have, and it's clear they treat it properly. 

[Foxx]

12 hours ago, davep043 said:

I haven't had the same experience, most bunkers I've had to play from have been raked.  Its not universal, but it never was during my first 50 years of playing golf

 

Not around my area. Before covid "golfers" raked. Post covid we have all the new golfers who couldn't play any other sport during covid. Those are the ones that don't give a sh*t. 

I walk into a bunker, and you're very lucky if your ball is sitting on raked sand.

 

I just don't see the point in being the minority anymore.

If I play a course somewhere that's raked, I'll still do the right thing.

[sui generis]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Not around my area. Before covid "golfers" raked. Post covid we have all the new golfers who couldn't play any other sport during covid. Those are the ones that don't give a sh*t. 

I walk into a bunker, and you're very lucky if your ball is sitting on raked sand.

 

I just don't see the point in being the minority anymore.

If I play a course somewhere that's raked, I'll still do the right thing.

 

The Rules of Golf (R1.2) oblige you to "take (ing) good care of the course." The Rules don't give you the option to ignore that despite what others might do or not do.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=1&subrulenum=2

 

So, be a good citizen.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Leaving a nicely raked bunker is like a nicely mowed lawn. It’s so satisfying. Call me weird, but that’s ok with me. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

 

Not around my area. Before covid "golfers" raked. Post covid we have all the new golfers who couldn't play any other sport during covid. Those are the ones that don't give a sh*t. 

I walk into a bunker, and you're very lucky if your ball is sitting on raked sand.

 

I just don't see the point in being the minority anymore.

If I play a course somewhere that's raked, I'll still do the right thing.

My course is pretty bad and always has been though it is probably a bit worst now.  I do the raking to make the course better for the next person and I also have a hope that maybe someone who does not understand will see me raking the sand and get the idea.

[geesecougar2]

If the bunker isn't raked, I play lift clean and place. It's the unfortunate reality of post-Covid golf.

 

I will make every reasonable effort at raking it when I'm done, but when the entire surface area of a bunker is unraked it's really not my responsibility. I can't put out a forest fire with a firehose.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

6 minutes ago, geesecougar2 said:

If the bunker isn't raked, I play lift clean and place. It's the unfortunate reality of post-Covid golf.

 

I will make every reasonable effort at raking it when I'm done, but when the entire surface area of a bunker is unraked it's really not my responsibility. I can't put out a forest fire with a firehose.

Hopefully you don’t do this in tournaments and money on the line. 

[bobfoster]

Okay. I am going to complain about something here, and admit something here (which will probably get me in a lot of trouble in the WRX RoG forum). 

 

The complaint (though a minor one). When I started playing (in the 1960s, taught by my father) you learned etiquette at the same time as you learned to swing a club. Both were considered equally part of "the Gentleman's game". 

 

There was a "Covid boom". I get it. And for the most part I actually love it. All sorts of new people entering and falling in love with the sport. Nothing but great for the game. But the etiquette is no longer being learned side by side with the strokes (just my perception). 

 

So while I usually strictly adhere to the RoG (I don't have to - I no longer play competitive golf with anything on the line - I just do it for my own pleasure), I have made my own personal "Model Local Rule". 

 

Was in a trap this past Sunday. Ball was sitting down, deeply down in the heel mark of some a**hole that couldn't be bothered to rake it (or, even worse, had never even been taught that basics of courtesy). I picked up my ball, raked the trap, and dropped it. Actually wound up with a sandy (I'm really good out of traps).

 

So - in this WRX forum, I "cheated". Did not follow the strict RoG. But I do think I followed the "spirit" of the RoG. 

 

So go ahead guys, throw virtual bananas at my head. 

 

But the point of this thread is a good one: How do we long time golfers handle the fact that there are a lot of new golfers that are entering the game that do not even know the basics of replacing divots, fixing ball marks on greens, or raking traps? I mean, etiquette 101? 

 

I have no problem taking my medicine. If I hit it into a trap, that is what my sand wedge is for (something I practice a lot). And if it is a damp trap and I need to hit it out of a fried egg? I have no problem with that. But if I hit it into a deep wet crevice left by some rude guy's heel ... yeah, I have no problem with my MLR.

 

Okay guys - tell me how terrible I am! 🤣

Edited April 16, 2024 by bobfoster

[Imp]

Do me a favor... can you find me in the RoG where you are guaranteed a fair lie in every sand TRAP?
 

They are meant to be avoided, for a reason. (And some pro courses Kiawah, etc...) they are waste areas. 

 

And for all you members here saying "It only happened after covid"  no. It's historically, and always, been an issue. Some more than others.

 

That said, I would love for a starter, or the person doing the checking in of the foursome, to have as part of their "Welcome to XYZ club" to say "and if anyone in your group is seen by a marshal not raking after hitting out of a sand trap, you will be asked to leave, no refunds." Members, doubly so. Heck, have a trap on the 1st tee and you can only tee off after each player shows their capability to rake. (And always put the rake on the far side of the trap. 🙂 )

 

And for those that say "we'll never go back if that happened." Well, great. I love it when a problem solves itself. 

[Mr. Bean]

44 minutes ago, Imp said:

Do me a favor... can you find me in the RoG where you are guaranteed a fair lie in every sand TRAP?

 

That would be difficult as there are no sand traps in the Rules.

  

44 minutes ago, Imp said:

They are meant to be avoided, for a reason. (And some pro courses Kiawah, etc...) they are waste areas. 

 

 

Waste areas differ from bunkers in many ways, not only by them not being raked. Thus bunkers are not waste areas, nor waste areas are bunkers. Waste areas one might call sand traps.

[nsxguy]

LOL. What next ? Leave the rakes IN the bunkers or OUT ?

 

Mr B hit it. 97% of courses in his area are private. We should ALL be so lucky.

 

Here in the States, there is a MUCH higher portion of "casual" golfers. I believe Golf Digest said not too long ago about 12% of all golfers (here) even keep a handicap. I'm betting most other countries represented here on WRX, especially Europeans and Aussies have a much higher ratio of serious players.

 

I've rarely played high-end/private courses. But IME, generally speaking, the amount of the greens fee is closely related to rake usage.

 

If you're playing a lower-priced golf course, virtually always a muni/public course, you can be sure the majority of players are hackers and will mostly NOT be raking any bunkers.

 

As the price, and usually the quality, of the course goes up, the bunkers are better taken care of, you'll get a higher portion of players that are more serious and experienced, and more golfers will rake 'em.

 

If it's a true "membership", annual fee, course, or even a semi-private one, you will find a lot more raking going on.

 

And at a true private course, you'd better rake that bunker. If not, you'll (maybe) get one warning, and if there's a next time be prepared for some sort of punishment.

 

Anyway, those are my personal experiences around here.

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

5 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Mr B hit it. 97% of courses in his area are private. We should ALL be so lucky.

 

 

Perhaps I should have used the term private-owned as all but one golf courses in Finland are available to all players with some requirements about handicap index and membership. There is only one single true private golf course and that is a 9-hole course owned by a large company and not open to public.

[Argonne69]

59 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

LOL. What next ? Leave the rakes IN the bunkers or OUT ?

 

Mr B hit it. 97% of courses in his area are private. We should ALL be so lucky.

 

Here in the States, there is a MUCH higher portion of "casual" golfers. I believe Golf Digest said not too long ago about 12% of all golfers (here) even keep a handicap. I'm betting most other countries represented here on WRX, especially Europeans and Aussies have a much higher ratio of serious players.

 

I've rarely played high-end/private courses. But IME, generally speaking, the amount of the greens fee is closely related to rake usage.

 

If you're playing a lower-priced golf course, virtually always a muni/public course, you can be sure the majority of players are hackers and will mostly NOT be raking any bunkers.

 

As the price, and usually the quality, of the course goes up, the bunkers are better taken care of, you'll get a higher portion of players that are more serious and experienced, and more golfers will rake 'em.

 

If it's a true "membership", annual fee, course, or even a semi-private one, you will find a lot more raking going on.

 

And at a true private course, you'd better rake that bunker. If not, you'll (maybe) get one warning, and if there's a next time be prepared for some sort of punishment.

 

Anyway, those are my personal experiences around here.

 

 

Wish I could say the same thing. I've found that rake usage follows a bathtub curb. As the cost of round increases, so does the proper care for the course. To a point. Sadly, I've found that many players at high priced public courses don't care for the course. Sense of entitlement I guess. You pay $250 for a round of golf, and some players expect someone else to rake their bunkers, fill their divot holes, and fix their pitch marks. 

 

[IndyArcher]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:46 PM, 596 said:

I like the thought of doing away with rakes.  Play it as it lies.  But then again the early bird has the chance of better bunker lies then the guy who is playing the number 300th round that day.

 

Yes, our course is seeing over 300 rounds per day at this point.  

 You average 12 1/2 hours of continuous foursome tee-offs every 10 minutes? 

[596]

3 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

 You average 12 1/2 hours of continuous foursome tee-offs every 10 minutes? 

We have 27 holes and most days tee times are full all day.  8 minute tee times.  We've been as high as 350 rounds in one day in high season.  We have 100 carts and some times they are all out before noon.  Then northerns go home and we are peaceful again until Oct.