The 14 club rule

[third-times-a-charm]

I could easily play with less - as in 12-13 clubs. No reason for even more of them. If I had to take out a wedge and a middle fairway/utility I could easily get away with that and go through a full round without using them or using something else with a different swing.

[Strategery]

22 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I could easily play with less - as in 12-13 clubs.

Since that is the exact opposite of this thread, it does not belong here.

[third-times-a-charm]

2 minutes ago, Strategery said:

Since that is the exact opposite of this thread, it does not belong here.

You'll live.

[Ghostwedge]

I remember seeing a photo of Arnie's cart, two full staff bags full of extra clubs.

That was Arnie, the rest of us mere mortals do fine with 10-14 usually. 

[avguy]

Since the establishment of this Rule for 14 as a Guideline for the ams, but required for the pros, obviously technology has dinged up the original proposed bag layout. (Jacked lofts, hotter faces, shaft-fitting, putter types, hybrids, etc...).

 

In my intro to the sport looking into my Dad's golf bag in the 70's, I recall this was what 14 was defined as the majority. 

D-3W-5W-3,4,5,6,7,8,9,PW-GW-LW-P.   

I doubt this is the majority,  even on the Pro circuits anymore.  

Because of said mention tech and subsequent golfer's evolution, I would Welcome a change to a 13-Club Rule - just sayin!

[lggolf42]

It's necessary. I'm a caddie and wouldn't be so thrilled if someone showed up with 25-30 clubs in their bag. 😂 Same thing for pros though too, it would take too much of the skill out of the game. Being able to dial in yardages is one of the things they are best at and separates the men from the boys on tour. Sure, manufacturers would love it but it would fundamentally change the game. Keep it how it is. 

[ChipNRun]

2 hours ago, iknowbagu said:

The hyperbolic 26 clubs is just that, hyperbolic.  But I for one would love to see it go to 15.  Golf is barely the same game it was back in 1938.  Courses are longer, fairways tighter

... yes, but big hitters only need drivers!

 

 

[Bye]

15 probably is the magic number.

 

The distance debate is raging again in the tour section. If the powers that be set a limit of 43 inches and 15 degrees for the longest club it would kill 2 birds with one stone! Maybe 3 as it would also solve the 4 wedge or driving iron debate.

[JermWRX]

5 hours ago, lefthack said:

My bag has 15 slots, so sue me. 🤣

 

<edit> I have both a hybrid and a driving iron.

Same here!! Bag has 15 slots, so I carry 15 clubs. Not a single person has ever said a word to me about it, and if they did I’d probably just roll my eyes out of the back of my skull.

[mikewohlwend]

5 hours ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

I think many people would be better served playing with 10-12 clubs. As someone who plays with a 1/2 set from time to time (7 clubs), I typically shoot about the same score with the half set as I do with 14 clubs. 

 

I think professional golf would be a bit more compelling if they reduced the club limit to 12 rather than increasing the number of clubs. Plus, for the majority of par 4s it is driver + wedge or driver + 9i anyway. Pretty rare to see 4i or 5i used on tour, in my experience. Can you imagine how many clubs Bryson would carry? He would probably have like 3 putters. 

 

I was going to say this.  I don't hit all the clubs I carry on a regular basis.

[toastinato]

9 hours ago, MelloYello said:

GolfWRX would explode. 

 

We'd have guys with a blade 7-iron for the fairway and a CB 7-iron for the rough. 

 

We'd have guys with 4 or 5 drivers for different trajectories, shot shapes, distances and wind conditions, LOL. 

You can’t forget about the tour pros on here that need 8 different grinds for their wedges depending on the condition of the shot.. ya know, since it may be dry in the morning and rain in the afternoon. 

[miamistomp]

7 hours ago, lefthack said:

 

I don't keep score, so I have nothing to post. If I were to play in an event, I would have to make a choice for sure. But my bag came with 15 slots and I have about 20 clubs I can put in it. 

 

 

 

7 CB's, 7 MB's and a putter. What more could I need?

 If all those clubs were not backwards, you wouldn't need so many🙃

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, nitram said:

Can you imagine the size of the bags if this was allowed?

 

I can see it now: "Bag For sale, Great White Shark with 24 club dividers".

 

There was an old gentleman at our club a few years ago who'd taken an old 30-gal. "oil drum" and strapped it to his golf cart. It was filled with clubs to where it didn't appear to be able to hold another. He also had a 5-gallon bucket of balls that was always filled at least half-way that was kept in a modified basket behind him. When he passed away, I helped a couple of guys clean out his cart from the barn. There were 48 clubs, including 6 drivers and 8 putters, and over 12-dozen balls.

 

As my father in law quotes his drill Sargent from basic - “ a good Boy Scout is always prepared “.   That guy was a good Boy Scout !  🤣

[bnperrone]

4 hours ago, avguy said:

Since the establishment of this Rule for 14 as a Guideline for the ams, but required for the pros, obviously technology has dinged up the original proposed bag layout. (Jacked lofts, hotter faces, shaft-fitting, putter types, hybrids, etc...).

 

In my intro to the sport looking into my Dad's golf bag in the 70's, I recall this was what 14 was defined as the majority. 

D-3W-5W-3,4,5,6,7,8,9,PW-GW-LW-P.   

I doubt this is the majority,  even on the Pro circuits anymore.  

Because of said mention tech and subsequent golfer's evolution, I would Welcome a change to a 13-Club Rule - just sayin!

Lob wedges started being a thing in the 80s and gap wedges on came into being in the 90s after loft creep set in. Not saying that wasn’t a common setup for periods of time, but not likely to be something you’d have seen in the 70s.

 

Trying to think back, I recall the Cleveland “Diadic” wedge at 53* to be the first gap wedge I came across. The Tommy Armour W4 wedge out of the 845 set that got passed down to me was definitely my first lob wedge. Loved that thing. Wore the logo lettering clean off the bottom.

[Wasabi]

I'm actually thinking about going the other way and get better with less clubs.

[miamistomp]

5 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

Lob wedges started being a thing in the 80s and gap wedges on came into being in the 90s after loft creep set in. Not saying that wasn’t a common setup for periods of time, but not likely to be something you’d have seen in the 70s.

 

Trying to think back, I recall the Cleveland “Diadic” wedge at 53* to be the first gap wedge I came across. The Tommy Armour W4 wedge out of the 845 set that got passed down to me was definitely my first lob wedge. Loved that thing. Wore the logo lettering clean off the bottom.

 Tom Kite "

Kite: Well, I was the first one to go to the 60-degree wedge way back in 1980. I don’t want to say it revolutionized, but it certainly changed the game. I put it in the bag and I instantly became a better player. I didn’t know anything about clubs, except I knew what I needed in terms of loft and length to get the ball to go the distance that I wanted it to go. So I put that in the bag in June of 1980, and in 1981 I was the leading money winner. I didn’t finish out of the top-10 for years. So it was a good run based on that wedge. So immediately guys started copying it and putting a 60-degree wedge in – well, not immediately, it took them a couple years to catch on. But, it was pretty received. 

[Blaiser]

Recreation golf, I say go nuts with how many clubs you want to bring. It's all about enjoying the round -- and like a little kid, more toys often equals more fun.

 

I'm actually the opposite of the spectrum. Not in my 20's anymore so carrying the heavy bag was becoming a chore.

 

I started leaving some clubs in the trunk just to lighten the load and I'm really shocked how it doesn't change my score much.

 

Some rounds I'll take out pretty much all of my longer clubs except for the driver, and I'll just move up a set of tees on a par 3 that would require a longer iron.

 

Obviously I can't turn in a score on those rounds, but the body definitely appreciates the lighter bag.

[bnperrone]

17 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 Tom Kite "

Kite: Well, I was the first one to go to the 60-degree wedge way back in 1980. I don’t want to say it revolutionized, but it certainly changed the game. I put it in the bag and I instantly became a better player. I didn’t know anything about clubs, except I knew what I needed in terms of loft and length to get the ball to go the distance that I wanted it to go. So I put that in the bag in June of 1980, and in 1981 I was the leading money winner. I didn’t finish out of the top-10 for years. So it was a good run based on that wedge. So immediately guys started copying it and putting a 60-degree wedge in – well, not immediately, it took them a couple years to catch on. But, it was pretty received. 

Yep, that was the article I found to check my thinking. Safe to say LW wasn’t part of the typical core set makeup in the 70s.

[A.Princey]

45 minutes ago, Blaiser said:

Recreation golf, I say go nuts with how many clubs you want to bring. It's all about enjoying the round -- and like a little kid, more toys often equals more fun.

 

I'm actually the opposite of the spectrum. Not in my 20's anymore so carrying the heavy bag was becoming a chore.

 

I started leaving some clubs in the trunk just to lighten the load and I'm really shocked how it doesn't change my score much.

 

Some rounds I'll take out pretty much all of my longer clubs except for the driver, and I'll just move up a set of tees on a par 3 that would require a longer iron.

 

Obviously I can't turn in a score on those rounds, but the body definitely appreciates the lighter bag.

 Sorry if this comes across a little preachy, but a good push cart is the way to go nowadays. A little awkward on hills, but the shoulder/arms/back benefits are endless as it comes to fatigue and playing better. Not even the least bit emasculating anymore, either!

Edited February 24, 2022 by A.Princey

[ChipNRun]

Funny story from local amateur circuit tournament round.

 

I was in one of the last groups teeing off that day. I walked up to the starter, who had a small golf bag on his cart with a really weird mix of clubs.

 

It had five wedges, two 3Hs, a 5W and a couple of long irons... and no putter.

 

I said, "Clay, you really play an odd mix of clubs."

 

He said, "None of these are mine. These are 15th and in one case a 15th and 16th club that were in people's bags before they teed off. I'm storing them until the end of the round."

 

"And, you three do a quick count to make sure you're not over the 14-club limit."

[bnperrone]

7 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

Funny story from local amateur circuit tournament round.

I think you’ll like this. No names will be used, but while caddying for a PAC/lobbying group I was told very reliably about a senator who was playing in the member guest at one of the country’s most prestigious clubs maybe 5 years ago. On the last day coming down the stretch leading or near the top of what I assume is a shootout format, it was discovered he had 15 or 16 clubs the whole time. 
 

Thankfully I’m told the caddie wasn’t fired. After all, it’s serious but not the tour (or digging holes in the bunker at the US AM), and I’ve looped for enough politicians to know that they generally wouldn’t let a caddie tell them what to do anyway. 

[Ripken08]

Shot my best scores with 11-12 clubs max and everyone would benefit from that.  Problem is these young kids don't know how to hit multiple shots with different clubs.  They need 10 wedges to hit 10 yardages and have umpteen bounce grinds.  Shouldn't ever need more than 14 max in my opinion.

[bnperrone]

30 minutes ago, Ripken08 said:

Shot my best scores with 11-12 clubs max and everyone would benefit from that.  Problem is these young kids don't know how to hit multiple shots with different clubs.  They need 10 wedges to hit 10 yardages and have umpteen bounce grinds.  Shouldn't ever need more than 14 max in my opinion.

You think all these threads about gapping and grinds and bounce are just populated by a bunch of “young kids”?

[RoyalMustang]

For longer players, the 14-club limit seems a bit "limiting" in terms of gaps in bags.  Sure, I won't likely score much better with 14 than with 16, but if you carry the following:

 

Driver-285

3W-260

3H-235

4i-215

 

Then it leaves some decent sized gaps, especially if you play back tees where the par 3s can be up to 220 plus wind.  

 

On the other I would love to play

PW-140

50-125

54-110

58-95

62-loft around green and short shots

 

16 clubs would allow a loft wedge and a 5W.  Nothing wrong with that.  

 

Still, I bet I could score the same with 10 as 14. Especially on my course, as if you know the wind will be neutral, you won't ever need a 6 or 7 iron unless you hit the best drive of your life on one par 5.  Only need a 5/4 for the long par 3s and punchouts. Everything else is 8-wedge

 

 

[Ripken08]

7 hours ago, bnperrone said:

You think all these threads about gapping and grinds and bounce are just populated by a bunch of “young kids”?

Well and some old ones too I guess.  But most of those that learned early 90's or earlier know how to make shots with what they had.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ripken08

[Ripken08]

52 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

For longer players, the 14-club limit seems a bit "limiting" in terms of gaps in bags.  Sure, I won't likely score much better with 14 than with 16, but if you carry the following:

 

Driver-285

3W-260

3H-235

4i-215

 

Then it leaves some decent sized gaps, especially if you play back tees where the par 3s can be up to 220 plus wind.  

 

On the other I would love to play

PW-140

50-125

54-110

58-95

62-loft around green and short shots

 

16 clubs would allow a loft wedge and a 5W.  Nothing wrong with that.  

 

Still, I bet I could score the same with 10 as 14. Especially on my course, as if you know the wind will be neutral, you won't ever need a 6 or 7 iron unless you hit the best drive of your life on one par 5.  Only need a 5/4 for the long par 3s and punchouts. Everything else is 8-wedge

 

 

EVERYONE should know how to fill a 10-15 yard gap using the lower lofted club in that gap.  Nobody can swing 75-80%?  

[vandyfan]

I am obviously not an elite player and closer to the average golfer but at 6400 yds I commonly use Driver, 3W, 4hyb, 8i, 9i, PW, GW, SW, LW, putter. Last round I didn't use my SW and used a 5i once to punch out which I could have done with my 4hyb. Looking back through my round data, I have to go back 7 rounds to have hit even all 13 clubs in my bag in the same round (I don't currently carry 14) and that was because I played poorly. 

 

For an elite player that is playing a lot of competitive golf I can see needing exact yardages on certain clubs and different bounce options etc. For me, it is fun to be 100 yds out and think I can hit this yardage with at least 3 clubs in my bag, maybe 4. Part of what makes it fun for me. Since I never take a "full" swing with a wedge, I don't even feel like I need a 54* wedge anymore. I can hit a 75% GW in almost every situation and get the same (sometimes better) result. 

[RoyalMustang]

49 minutes ago, Ripken08 said:

EVERYONE should know how to fill a 10-15 yard gap using the lower lofted club in that gap.  Nobody can swing 75-80%?  

 

Sure, I can, and do it all the time (although I struggle with the 40 yard shot).  Still, I like having multiple clubs; it is fun!  I can hit my PW anywhere between 75 and 140 with a more or less full swing by opening the face choking down, and changing my AOA, but it gets less predictable at the top. I often have to hit 225 with my 3H and even though I choke down, I still square it up and it goes stock distance. 

[Hickory4ever]

There is a reason that our golf grips are long enough to grip down on the club. Grip down an inch and you just fixed your gap. Problem solved.

[Davidv]

I have a call in to my Caddie to get his thoughts before I comment.😂