How do LPGA players make an income when they're not making the cut?

[JamesWA]

On 4/28/2022 at 5:08 PM, pmcuk said:

Can you guys explain the economics of being a LPGA player? Where does the income come from when you're not making the cut in most events?

 

Is the income from teaching and being attached to the staff of clubs or what? And what's the average expense of being on the tour, including travel, per diem etc? 

 

Are some players having to drop off the tour for economic reasons or do they all stay afloat somehow? 

I don't think you want to know the answer to your question...

[JamesWA]

On 4/28/2022 at 5:08 PM, pmcuk said:

Can you guys explain the economics of being a LPGA player? Where does the income come from when you're not making the cut in most events?

 

Is the income from teaching and being attached to the staff of clubs or what? And what's the average expense of being on the tour, including travel, per diem etc? 

 

Are some players having to drop off the tour for economic reasons or do they all stay afloat somehow? 

I don't think you want to know the answer to your question...

[mikedellgolf]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, Rapidcat said:

Exactly.

 

When you have Danielle Kang publicising she loses $ to play even if she just makes the cut, there will be plenty who will be happy to play for much better GUARANTEED purses.

 

So easy for the Saudis to get something going for the women and so counter the anti-women regime commentary. Not as if they need to worry about the economics of it. I suspect they will get far more top women playing vs top men (at the outset).

 

She used to date Maverick McNealy and his family is filthy rich.  I am sure the McNealy can bank roll her golf career.

[Rapidcat]

7 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

 

She used to date Maverick McNealy and his family is filthy rich.  I am sure the McNealy can bank roll her golf career.

You have missed my point entirely.

 

Danielle itemised by $ why just making the cut still meant making a loss for any player for playing that event.

[JungleJimbo]

4 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

You have missed my point entirely.

 

Danielle itemised by $ why just making the cut still meant making a loss for any player for playing that event.

 

‘Made the cut last week and didn’t break even’ – Danielle Kang on financial realities of life on LPGA Tour

golfwrx.com/674158/made-the-cut-last-week-and-didnt-break-even-danielle-kang-on-financial-realities-of-life-on-lpga-tour

By Jason Daniels

 

There is plenty said about the money available on the PGA Tour, and last year’s announcement of the sharp rise in prize-money for the LPGA and associated events was probably about time.

This week’s Chevron Championship has nearly 40 years of tradition and history behind it but Danielle Kang, winner of six LPGA events including one major championship, admits the extra money comes with extra sponsorship, and inevitable change.

 

• Related: Former LPGA pro shares detailed breakdown of expenses for a year on Symetra Tour

When asked about the ‘fresh blood’ in terms of sponsors, the 29-year-old admitted:

“It’s refreshing, to be honest. It’s because I’m lucky enough to not worry about some of the cash prizes and things like that. I understand sometimes when people look at how much money we make, they get thrown off about you’re making extra amounts and you’re making this much and you’re just complaining.”

“Let’s kind of look at it from a broader perspective. I’m one player. How about the average tour players? I made $6,000 last week, made the cut; I didn’t break even last week. That’s me budgeting. I have to drive, rent a car, get a hotel room. Luckily enough for me I’m sponsored by BMW that provides for me the car. That saves like $500, $1000 etc.”

The winner of January’s Tournament of Champions was enthusiastic about the future:

“We have to think about all these things. So for us, when companies step up and give us an opportunity to make a living, make the tour better and broader and for players to compete and to be an actual job, it’s nice to see that.”

On the move to Houston in 2023, Kang understands that tradition must give way to progress:

“This place has lots of memories, a lot of traditions, and I understand that,” admits Kang. “But sometimes we’re so focused on the move right now that we have taken away the fact that the CEO, Michael Wirth, I think is his name, he upped our prize fund by 60% and is now a $5 million purse.”

“I understand this is one of the most loved events, but we have to elevate this event. It is something — it’s got history, traditions, and it will be an integral part of the championship moving forward, but we need to have bigger prize monies and — prize money, and for the fact that he made it $5 million, I really thank him for that.”

“He elevated it in literally a week. It’s instant. We have courtesy cars. At a Major championship, we’re competing for bigger prizes. It differentiates a Major versus other golf tournaments.”

Many of the previous event winners here this week have admitted sadness that this is the final year at Mission Hills.

2014 champion Lexi Thompson spoke about the tradition of the winner jumping into the greenside pond, started in 1988: “Jumping into Poppie’s Pond is one of my best memories. I think what’s so amazing is the history behind this tournament. Jumping into Poppie’s Pond’s, putting the robe on on the 18th green, just the tradition and history behind it. To be able to walk up the 18th green and see my name there, it’s pretty special.”

As Kang says, though, things must move on:

“Major championships, what makes it a Major? Bigger purse, better players, golf courses, difficulty, level of the golf course. US Open is US Open because of what it is. We play amazing golf tracks. Same thing and KPMG Women’s PGA Championship, the Open, British Opens. We have to think about why this tournament is so special. Traditions are tradition, but for me, like there is nothing permanent than change.”

[mikedellgolf]

6 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

You have missed my point entirely.

 

Danielle itemised by $ why just making the cut still meant making a loss for any player for playing that event.

I got your point... I was just joking. 

 

The LPGA needs a better marketing team.

[Rapidcat]

2 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

I got your point... I was just joking. 

 

The LPGA needs a better marketing team.

Fair enough - I'll re-engage my sense of humour.

 

I bet a few struggling female pros would like to have an EX-boyfriend who bankrolls them🙂

[JungleJimbo]

On 6/5/2022 at 7:25 PM, Rapidcat said:

@JungleJimbo interesting article, this last bit touches on change:

 

The LPGA has 'only' 34 published events this season (vs the PGA's 48 events), I can imagine a LIV-type season of say 15 events that will probably provide a player with more guaranteed prizemoney from no cut-events than if that player played say 25 LPGA events with prizemoney at risk by missing cuts. They can live at home in South Korea, Thailand, Japan, Europe, even Australia more easily and play that schedule, many of them won't have any specific allegiance to the US & LPGA to forego loads more guaranteed $, especially if they buy into the 'help us change and further the rights of women and the opportunities of women in sport'.

 

There's not the 'tradition-pull' on the LPGA tour as there is on the PGA tour. On the LPGA tour you have a higher major to event ratio so diminishing the impact of being a major winner, major venue and name changes and a significant prizemoney differential - when Leona won this year, her winner's cheque was less than that of Seamus Power's 9th place finish on the same weekend. Yeah, I know, economics but the Saudi's don't have to worry about that.

 

I'm not saying I am in favour of all this, I'm simply saying it is possible and an easier task for LIV or whomever than taking on the PGA tour. 

 

Greetings from Greg.

In this interview with Golf Channel, Mike Whan was asked how he thought LPGA players would respond if they received a similar LIV proposal (timestamp ~17m30s)
 

Quote/ Auto-Transcript from Youtube:
 

Quote

17:42

>> MIKE, BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE

17:43

OF THE LPGA PLAYERS, HOW DO YOU

17:46

THINK THEY WOULD REACT TO A

17:48

RIVAL LEAGUE LIKE LIV COMING AND

17:50

OFFERING THEM THE KIND OF

17:52

OFFERS -- OR USING THE SAME

17:53

MODEL THEY'RE USING ON THE MEN'S

17:55

TOUR RIGHT NOW

17:57

>> PROBABLY SIMILAR TO WHAT'S

17:59

HAPPENING ON THE MEN'S TOUR.

18:00

MEANING IT'S NOT FOR EVERYBODY

18:03

I'M SURE SOME PEOPLE WOULD

18:04

REJECT IT OUT OF HAND.

18:07

SOME PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY GRIND

18:08

OUGHT OVER A YEAR AND SOME WOULD

18:09

BE QUICK TO JUMP ON BOARD.

18:11

AS YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE A LOT

18:14

EASIER TO GET AN LPGA OR L.E.T.

18:17

PLAYER INKREEGED BY GUARANTEED

18:19

MONEY OVER THE NEXT YEAR THAT

18:20

COULD BE LIFE-CHANGING

18:21

THERE'S NOT MANY PLAYERS ON THE

18:24

LPGA PRIVATELY FLYING TO THEIR

18:26

EVENTS AND BRINGING THEIR COOK

18:27

AND MASSEUSE

18:30

IT'S JUST NOT THAT LIFESTYLE

18:30

AND I SAY THAT AS A CRITIQUE TO

18:33

ME

18:33

IT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO CREATE

18:34

FOR THEM

18:35

I KNOW WE'VE RAISED THINGS A LOT

18:37

IN MY 12 YEARS BUT I DIDN'T FEEL

18:39

LEAVING LIKE IT WAS ANYWHERE

18:41

NEAR FINISHED.

18:42

I SAID IT AND I BELIEVE IT

18:45

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD SAY IF

18:47

SOMEONE SAID, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE

18:48

TO WORK TEN WEEKS AND MAKE

18:49

SIGNIFICANTLY MORE MONEY

18:51

I GET THE FACT THAT WILL GET

18:53

PEOPLE TO SCRATCH THEIR HEAD AND

18:54

THINK DIFFERENTLY.

18:57

I DON'T KNOW IF IT MAKES IT THAT

18:58

MUCH MORE INTERESTING,

19:01

WATCHABLE.

19:01

BUT I UNDERSTAND THE INDIVIDUAL

19:04

DIALOGUE THAT'S PROBABLY HAD ON

19:07

SOME KITCHEN TABLES AND I'M SURE

19:08

THAT DIALOGUE WOULD HAPPEN ON

19:09

THE LPGA AS WELL

 

 

[Rapidcat]

6 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

In this interview with Golf Channel, Mike Whan was asked how he thought LPGA players would respond if they received a similar LIV proposal (timestamp ~17m30s)
 

Quote/ Auto-Transcript from Youtube:
 

 

Wow, really appreciating you posting this, your ability to identify and post supporting and/or relevant info is valued by me on here and I can see by others from the likes.

 

Mike’s interview looks like it happened after my initial post on the subject on here but certainly I hadn’t seen his interview until you posted it. Not in a million years suggesting that Mike is responding to me (of course) but maybe gives some credence that others may be thinking along the lines I outlined, so something for Mike to address generally. Few would question Mike's LPGA Tour knowledge despite any potential for spin.

 

Plenty of the leading women already play in Aramco (Saudi sponsored/funded) events as part of the LET. As an example, the New York event last year was won by Charley and had the Kordas, Lexi, Danielle Kang, Popov and plenty of others playing. If any of them were concerned enough about Saudi human rights issues, maybe they wouldn’t have played? It helped that the Americans were able to play on home soil and so chose that event over any competing events. More Saudi-backed events on US soil, anyone?

 

Leona finished tied T8^th in last week’s US women’s open and earned $261k which is more than she got by winning her garden-variety standard LPGA event earlier this year ($225k). A Saudi/LIV type prizemoney series even at this year’s USWO prizemoney level would be so attractive to many of the best women.

 

If the Saudis/LIV want to take on or even only augment the LPGA schedule, they have a strong opportunity to embed an expanded number of their events in a real-world tour much more easily than in the men’s environment. I doubt a ban threat would work with the top LPGA players if they were offered say 12 LIV events at USWO+ prizemoney + no cuts & if they could also play majors based on even existing qualification criteria. The LPGA would have far less muscle and a compromise ‘working together’ arrangement would most likely be the result IMO.

 

But maybe the Saudis think they have enough of a presence in women’s golf already with the Aramco events, so they need do nothing more for now?

 

Interesting times that should benefit women pros chasing prizemoney at better levels than current.

 

Some out of the box thinking could even see a deeper embracing of LIV for women’s golf – how about a LIV- backed women’s major with greatly increased prizemoney?

[woahnelly]

14 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

Wow, really appreciating you posting this, your ability to identify and post supporting and/or relevant info is valued by me on here and I can see by others from the likes.

 

Mike’s interview looks like it happened after my initial post on the subject on here but certainly I hadn’t seen his interview until you posted it. Not in a million years suggesting that Mike is responding to me (of course) but maybe gives some credence that others may be thinking along the lines I outlined, so something for Mike to address generally. Few would question Mike's LPGA Tour knowledge despite any potential for spin.

 

Plenty of the leading women already play in Aramco (Saudi sponsored/funded) events as part of the LET. As an example, the New York event last year was won by Charley and had the Kordas, Lexi, Danielle Kang, Popov and plenty of others playing. If any of them were concerned enough about Saudi human rights issues, maybe they wouldn’t have played? It helped that the Americans were able to play on home soil and so chose that event over any competing events. More Saudi-backed events on US soil, anyone?

 

Leona finished tied T8^th in last week’s US women’s open and earned $261k which is more than she got by winning her garden-variety standard LPGA event earlier this year ($225k). A Saudi/LIV type prizemoney series even at this year’s USWO prizemoney level would be so attractive to many of the best women.

 

If the Saudis/LIV want to take on or even only augment the LPGA schedule, they have a strong opportunity to embed an expanded number of their events in a real-world tour much more easily than in the men’s environment. I doubt a ban threat would work with the top LPGA players if they were offered say 12 LIV events at USWO+ prizemoney + no cuts & if they could also play majors based on even existing qualification criteria. The LPGA would have far less muscle and a compromise ‘working together’ arrangement would most likely be the result IMO.

 

But maybe the Saudis think they have enough of a presence in women’s golf already with the Aramco events, so they need do nothing more for now?

 

Interesting times that should benefit women pros chasing prizemoney at better levels than current.

 

Some out of the box thinking could even see a deeper embracing of LIV for women’s golf – how about a LIV- backed women’s major with greatly increased prizemoney?

 

Many of the ladies are sponsored by Aramco, LET even hosts the Saudi Int'l started in 2020 which Lydia Ko and Georgia Hall have won a nice check from.  The Aramco Team Series prize pool is pretty large too , I think 500k to the winner and $1mil to the team portion. Patty and the Jutanagarns skipped an LPGA event to go play the most recent one in Bangkok. 

[RedPanda]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:51 AM, mikedellgolf said:

I got your point... I was just joking. 

 

The LPGA needs a better marketing team.

 

 

It dont matter how good the marketing team is if people cant see women golf on TV.

Sadly broadcasting time and scheduling conflicts on the golf channel (NBC) is the MAIN problem. LPGA is stuck with a "single" broadcasting station while mens has like what 5? There is so much content that they can prob spawn into a Womens Golf Channel tbh.. now that USA network got the rights now (as of this year) maybe we will see "more" being they are separate sub-division in NBC vs the Golf Channel.

Edited June 11, 2022 by RedPanda

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

 

[khalespace]

Lilia Vu, #4 player in the world, is struggling to get a sponsor. Prior to the Chevron Championship, she has no sponsor. Of late, I see Titleist cited her name using ProV1x balls but I am not sure if it is an official sponsor or not. There is no logo on her bag, hat or clothes the last time she played. The S on her hat is for her home course, Shady Canyon.

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[JungleJimbo]

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/the-platform-that-allows-golf-fans-to-invest-in-players

 

 

 

[grm24]

On 5/10/2023 at 9:02 PM, khalespace said:

Lilia Vu, #4 player in the world, is struggling to get a sponsor. Prior to the Chevron Championship, she has no sponsor. Of late, I see Titleist cited her name using ProV1x balls but I am not sure if it is an official sponsor or not. 

Vu's relationship with Titleist has been explained to you in different threads. Not sure why you are confused about this. She has a deal with Titleist to play their golf ball and appears she has a deal with FJ for shoes and at the least some rain apparel based on recent email ads. Again Vu is listed on the Titleist website as a Pro-V1/V1X ball user.

 

Titleist/FJ can not use her name/likeness (or others) without her explicit permission and having some official deal with her. The fact she doesn't have a hat/club/bag club deal with them at this time is different than having a ball deal with them. You also thought she had a new deal with Ralph Lauren/RLX that was proven as old news. 

 

Titleist/FJ has deals with numerous players regardless of other endorsement deals. 

[JungleJimbo]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

Vu's relationship with Titleist has been explained to you in different threads. Not sure why you are confused about this. She has a deal with Titleist to play their golf ball and appears she has a deal with FJ for shoes and at the least some rain apparel based on recent email ads. Again Vu is listed on the Titleist website as a Pro-V1/V1X ball user.

 

Titleist/FJ can not use her name/likeness (or others) without her explicit permission and having some official deal with her. The fact she doesn't have a hat/club/bag club deal with them at this time is different than having a ball deal with them. You also thought she had a new deal with Ralph Lauren/RLX that was proven as old news. 

 

Titleist/FJ has deals with numerous players regardless of other endorsement deals. 

@grm24 Looking at the LPGA Leaderboard ... i'm guessing if they have a "Titleist" logo next to their name... then they have a Ball endorsement/ambassador deal? 

... https://www.lpga.com/tournaments/cognizant-founders-cup/leaderboard 

 

[grm24]

10 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

@grm24 Looking at the LPGA Leaderboard ... i'm guessing if they have a "Titleist" logo next to their name... then they have a Ball endorsement/ambassador deal? 

... https://www.lpga.com/tournaments/cognizant-founders-cup/leaderboard

Correct. 

[RacineBoxer]

On 6/10/2022 at 7:24 PM, RedPanda said:

 

 

It dont matter how good the marketing team is if people cant see women golf on TV.

Sadly broadcasting time and scheduling conflicts on the golf channel (NBC) is the MAIN problem. LPGA is stuck with a "single" broadcasting station while mens has like what 5? There is so much content that they can prob spawn into a Womens Golf Channel tbh.. now that USA network got the rights now (as of this year) maybe we will see "more" being they are separate sub-division in NBC vs the Golf Channel.

 

I agree. For whatever reasons, I've gotten more interested in LPGA/women's golf. I think as I'm starting to stare down 50, and I've never been a high SS player to begin with, I'm really starting to embrace what good golf looks like when you don't carry driver 300 yards. Linn Grant & Minjee Lee are two of my favorite golfers on the planet, regardless of tour, male/female, etc but the only place I can typically find them is highlights on youtube. The ladies play the game in a way that is much more relatable. 

[aabcuue]

On 6/5/2022 at 7:25 AM, Rapidcat said:

@JungleJimbo interesting article, this last bit touches on change:

 

The LPGA has 'only' 34 published events this season (vs the PGA's 48 events), I can imagine a LIV-type season of say 15 events that will probably provide a player with more guaranteed prizemoney from no cut-events than if that player played say 25 LPGA events with prizemoney at risk by missing cuts. They can live at home in South Korea, Thailand, Japan, Europe, even Australia more easily and play that schedule, many of them won't have any specific allegiance to the US & LPGA to forego loads more guaranteed $, especially if they buy into the 'help us change and further the rights of women and the opportunities of women in sport'.

 

There's not the 'tradition-pull' on the LPGA tour as there is on the PGA tour. On the LPGA tour you have a higher major to event ratio so diminishing the impact of being a major winner, major venue and name changes and a significant prizemoney differential - when Leona won this year, her winner's cheque was less than that of Seamus Power's 9th place finish on the same weekend. Yeah, I know, economics but the Saudi's don't have to worry about that.

 

I'm not saying I am in favour of all this, I'm simply saying it is possible and an easier task for LIV or whomever than taking on the PGA tour. 

 

Greetings from Greg.

Minor problem, almost all of LPGA player live full time in the US. Pretty similar to pga players.

[aabcuue]

Like the PGA, some LPGA tournaments add perks that make it easier for players to break even.

Next week, the inaugural Mizuho Bank America's Open tournament is giving the entire field free lodging in a nyc hotel.

 

Liberty National GC in Jersey City, NJ has a ferry on site that goes to Manhattan in NYC. This means players won't really need a rental car this week.

 

https://www.lpga.com/news/2023/new-lpga-tour-title-sponsor-announces-full-field-of-120-players-to-receive-complimentary-lodging

[Rapidcat]

1 hour ago, aabcuue said:

Minor problem, almost all of LPGA player live full time in the US. Pretty similar to pga players.

 

Not really a problem if a decent % of the events (but not all) are scheduled in the US (as they likely would be), plus the LPGA players (US-based or not) travel to play a fair bit in Asia and Europe even now. Many foreign players live in the US obviously for LPGA convenience but without that may choose to return to live in their homelands. Only 12 of the top 50 players in the world rankings are Americans.

 

Also if the $ are much more than currently on the LPGA that can be enough to attract most of them.

 

Would be so easy to do.

[tlhammond5]

On 4/28/2022 at 5:12 AM, Notashank said:

Most have sponsors that pay their way in return for a percentage of their earnings. If the golfer doesn’t make money the sponsor losses money 

This is not the case!  They do not share prize money with sponsors.  They do however give 10% - 20% to their agent for finding sponsorship.  The sponsor pays for the player to represent their brand by displaying their logo on bags, clothing, etc, or to do personal appearances and commercials.  

[Treats]

8 hours ago, tlhammond5 said:

This is not the case!  They do not share prize money with sponsors.  They do however give 10% - 20% to their agent for finding sponsorship.  The sponsor pays for the player to represent their brand by displaying their logo on bags, clothing, etc, or to do personal appearances and commercials.  

You are describing corporate endorsements & sponsorship.

I believe what @Notashank is referring to is an individual or group of individuals who pay the touring upfront or quarterly per diems to cover their expenses while travelling on the tour(s). In return, the pro would offer up XXX amount or percentage of the tour earnings for a specified during.

 

These pros were unsuccessful obtaining an agent who would work for them trying to secure corprate endorsements & sponsorships.

 

I believe Tony Finau early in his golf career had a sponsor.

I believe they are in litigation & dispute over the terms of the agreement, assuming they had an agreement.

[JungleJimbo]

14 minutes ago, Treats said:

You are describing corporate endorsements & sponsorship.

I believe what @Notashank is referring to is an individual or group of individuals who pay the touring upfront or quarterly per diems to cover their expenses while travelling on the tour(s). In return, the pro would offer up XXX amount or percentage of the tour earnings for a specified during.

 

These pros were unsuccessful obtaining an agent who would work for them trying to secure corprate endorsements & sponsorships.

 

I believe Tony Finau early in his golf career had a sponsor.

I believe they are in litigation & dispute over the terms of the agreement, assuming they had an agreement.

 

 

 

• https://www.golfdigest.com/story/buying-shares-in-budding-tour-players 
• https://www.golfdigest.com/story/money-investment-group-carry-helping-aspiring-tour-pros-having-early-impact

 

==========

 

• "Understanding the legal claim at the heart of the Tony Finau lawsuit" (September 30, 2024):  "Utah businessman Molonai Hola claimed that in 2006 he invested $600,000 in Finau’s career in return for a promise of 20 percent of his future earnings—which today would amount to many million dollars. Hola said that Finau “agreed and understood” the terms, but the businessman acknowledged in his court papers that there was never a written agreement to that effect; Finau and his camp have said there was never any such deal."
•  

[Par4Nate]

10 hours ago, tlhammond5 said:

This is not the case!  They do not share prize money with sponsors.  They do however give 10% - 20% to their agent for finding sponsorship.  The sponsor pays for the player to represent their brand by displaying their logo on bags, clothing, etc, or to do personal appearances and commercials.  

 

Different kind of sponsor…

[GolfMoose]

Yeah, that kind of arrangement is common in the poker world, where a backer might fund multiple "horses" (players) and in return gets priority to any winnings until the investment is paid off (player is "out of make-up").  The staking there is typically focused on the tournament entry fee of course.

[jt2gt]

I good case study would be Lindy Duncan. How does she afford to keep doing it for the last 10 years. Is she just a good budgeter and not living beyond her means. I mean if DK can barely afford to make it, Lindy must be eating ramen and living in a van.