Jack Nicklaus Sued by the Nicklaus Companies. 6/6/22 Update: Norman Calls out "Hypocrite" Nicklaus

[me05501]

The fact that he stayed in a contract that required him to play bad golf balls suggests that the contract itself must have been quite lucrative for him.
 

At the least it seems like he was scared he wouldn’t be able to find a better deal. 

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Greg_B said:

Yes, I saw that.  The evidence is that someone talked to someone who was in the Titleist ball plant years ago who swore he saw some balls there with Jack’s name on them. I addressed how that might be in my reply. As for MacGregor balls being only available by mail order, I have never heard of that. When I began playing golf in the ‘80s I would occasionally find a Mac ball in the weeds when looking for an errant shot, too many for a mail order item.  
 

Jack was stuck with the MacGregor ball for years and years because it was a provision of his contract (which goes to the point that he could have used some help in such matters) and was perpetually unhappy with it. As the link I posted notes, many pros in similar situations played the required ball off the first tee to deceive the Darrell Report auditor recording such info then switched to their preferred brand on the next hole.  I also remember Jack playing a Maxfli in the latter stages of his career as someone else noted, though that might have been after he left MacGregor.  

 

👍

 

Yeah, a friend of my friend says a guy told him he saw Colonel Mustard kill Miss Scarlett in the Living Room with the knife. 

 

Good grief.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Greg_B said:

Yes, I saw that.  The evidence is that someone talked to someone who was in the Titleist ball plant years ago who swore he saw some balls there with Jack’s name on them. I addressed how that might be in my reply. As for MacGregor balls being only available by mail order, I have never heard of that. When I began playing golf in the ‘80s I would occasionally find a Mac ball in the weeds when looking for an errant shot, too many for a mail order item.  
 

Jack was stuck with the MacGregor ball for years and years because it was a provision of his contract (which goes to the point that he could have used some help in such matters) and was perpetually unhappy with it. As the link I posted notes, many pros in similar situations played the required ball off the first tee to deceive the Darrell Report auditor recording such info then switched to their preferred brand on the next hole.  I also remember Jack playing a Maxfli in the latter stages of his career as someone else noted, though that might have been after he left MacGregor.  

 

👍

 

Yeah, a friend of my friend says a guy told him he saw Colonel Mustard kill Miss Scarlett in the Living Room with the knife. 

 

Good grief.

[BIG STU]

18 hours ago, Greg_B said:

 

"I saw it on the Internet, so it must be true".

 

It isn't true though.

 

I posted the link earlier but here it is again:

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2009/11/25/looking-back-macgregors-golf-balls/

 

In that article it states that in the '70s Jack threatened MacGregor Golf management with him switching to the Titleist ball if they didn't get their act together.

 

I suppose the only part of your account that might be true is that either they or Jack himself made arrangements with Titleist for some number of non-logoed Titleists to be stamped with his name. But that is several layers of hearsay deep. Back then MacGregor had a ball plant making millions of lousy golf balls a year.

You are like a couple of other members I know on here will argue for the sake of arguing. I stated what I had read and never said it was the Holy Grail or anything like it. 

The mail order balls Dead solid Shank talked about were not Macgregors but the balls the Nicklaus companies put out called the Golden Bear Series. Like I told DSS I never saw any in person which is odd considering I live in a Tourist Golf mecca he stated that he thought he ordered some off the net but was not sure

Edited May 31, 2022 by BIG STU

[BIG STU]

10 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Dirty Myrtle.  Is that Seaboard St?

Yep Seaboard Street is a big part of the Dirty Myrtle mystique---- And BTW the wheel guy I was talking about had a building on Seaboard he stored stuff and worked out of

[Crn50]

20 hours ago, ChipStrokes said:

**Gary Koch intensifies**

"No Ian did..."

[Greg_B]

20 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Jungle Jimbo posted the link for me and no I do not always believe what is posted on the internet is true either. But if you look back about 3 posts you will see.

 

Not that it matters much, but I read that entire thread that was linked from 2014 and had to laugh at some of the misinformation posted in it. One of the real head-shakers was someone stating that Jack played a type of putter (unspecified) that took 4 months to make. Anyone who followed Jack's career over the years knows that with a couple of notable exceptions (the "White Fang" Bullseye he won the '67 US Open with and the MacGregor Response oversize in the '86 Masters), he used a Bristol George Low Wizard 600 Sportsman, which resembled a Wilson 8802 somewhat, for decades. Where some of this stuff comes from is a mystery since it is not hard to find documentation.

[bladehunter]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:50 PM, BIG STU said:

You can take the man outta the South but you can not take the Southern out of the Man

Can’t wash off a birthright !  😂.  
 

the first minute tells the tale !  
 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by bladehunter

[me05501]

23 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I get the feeling that Nicklaus has always wanted to single-handedly control everything he touches and around him, but maybe he was’t the best guy for the job.

 

 

This seems realistic. 

 

About 35 years ago the Nicklaus design company made an agreement with the State of Tennessee to locate "Bear Trace" courses adjacent to Tennessee state parks. The obvious inspiration was the RTJ Trail in Alabama which has been a huge success for that state's pension fund.

 

Disclaimer: I don't know whether or not this was before or after Jack sold his design business, but the timeline suggests it was before. 

 

The course closest to me opened with bent grass greens and thick fescue fringes. The design concept was to force players to carry the ball onto the putting surface or face the added challenge of playing through the fringe.

 

This is a common design choice in milder climates but it's rarely attempted around here due to our hot summer weather and the inability to keep the grasses healthy all season. 

 

A local construction firm with significant golf experience was hired to work with the designers from Nicklaus to implement all the on-site work. That firm was run by one of the area's best amateur players. 

 

From the beginning, the construction firm pushed back on the fescue collars on the simple idea that the course wouldn't be able to keep them alive without constantly soaking them in water (and therefore overwatering the greens). The Nicklaus people said no.

 

The construction firm pushed again. The Nicklaus people said "build it the way we designed it or it won't have our name on it." 

 

For the first several seasons the most notable features around the greens were the burnt-out fescue collars. From time to time the sod would be replaced but it would never survive. 

 

Eventually the collars were removed and the greens themselves were replaced with a hybrid Bermuda that holds up much better than the original bent grass greens. 

 

The course still has Jack's name on it. I assume whoever is receiving the licensing fees is happy they keep coming in.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by me05501

[aenemated]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Can’t wash off a birthright !  😂.  
 

the first minute tells the tale !  
 

 

 

Man, I love that movie. When I met Bobby D at Bellagio years back; all I managed to say was "Days of Thunder is awesome." 

 

Also occurred to me how long it's been since I watched it as I never caught the "Eagle Rock ... No, Glendale" line 😂

[pingbling23]

4 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

This seems realistic. 

 

About 35 years ago the Nicklaus design company made an agreement with the State of Tennessee to locate "Bear Trace" courses adjacent to Tennessee state parks. The obvious inspiration was the RTJ Trail in Alabama which has been a huge success for that state's pension fund.

 

Disclaimer: I don't know whether or not this was before or after Jack sold his design business, but the timeline suggests it was before. 

 

The course closest to me opened with bent grass greens and thick fescue fringes. The design concept was to force players to carry the ball onto the putting surface or face the added challenge of playing through the fringe.

 

This is a common design choice in milder climates but it's rarely attempted around here due to our hot summer weather and the inability to keep the grasses healthy all season. 

 

A local construction firm with significant golf experience was hired to work with the designers from Nicklaus to implement all the on-site work. That firm was run by one of the area's best amateur players. 

 

From the beginning, the construction firm pushed back on the fescue collars on the simple idea that the course wouldn't be able to keep them alive without constantly soaking them in water (and therefore overwatering the greens). The Nicklaus people said no.

 

The construction firm pushed again. The Nicklaus people said "build it the way we designed it or it won't have our name on it." 

 

For the first several seasons the most notable features around the greens were the burnt-out fescue collars. From time to time the sod would be replaced but it would never survive. 

 

Eventually the collars were removed and the greens themselves were replaced with a hybrid Bermuda that holds up much better than the original bent grass greens. 

 

The course still has Jack's name on it. I assume whoever is receiving the licensing fees is happy they keep coming in.

 

 

i played bear trace near crossville last year.  i was a little disappointed.  price wasnt bad but the course wasnt in near good enough shape (I played in mid april so not everything  had greened up).  they were having a girls and guys college match there and with the players practicing before the tourney it was over booked.

[bladehunter]

57 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Man, I love that movie. When I met Bobby D at Bellagio years back; all I managed to say was "Days of Thunder is awesome." 

 

Also occurred to me how long it's been since I watched it as I never caught the "Eagle Rock ... No, Glendale" line 😂

5/6 years ago I had the pleasure of talking  with Duval at the restaurant in our club here.  Now mind you this isn’t a private place. And the restaurant at the time was an outside owned BBQ pit. Not at all the lap of luxury.  
 

He and his friends had sought out some BBQ and peace to eat lunch.    Which they got.  Nobody bothered them while they ate.  I just happened in and saw him.  Walked by the table towards the mens room and he stopped me and said to me “ making the turn or not started yet “.  I stopped and said “ just working out some on the putting green and needed a break “.    To my shock he engages again.  Says “ yes sir.  Getting it in the hole is the objective.  Well I sure do appreciate the respect we’ve been shown here.  We wanted a quiet lunch and we got that and more.  “. 
 

i said that “folks knew who he was , but we’re not the type fans who wish for a lock of your hair ,” said with a smile. That got a loud laugh out of him.    And he said “ good thing since I don’t have many hairs left “!       I thanked him for speaking with me as they got up to leave.  The restaurant owner came over to ask for a photo for the wall and to give them a to go package of brisket he had made up.  He obliged the pic and thanked him and they left.  
 

He was as normal a man as I ever met.  I’ve always suspected he was playing himself in most movies.  But I know it now.  

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

5/6 years ago I had the pleasure of talking  with Duval at the restaurant in our club here.  Now mind you this isn’t a private place. And the restaurant at the time was an outside owned BBQ pit. Not at all the lap of luxury.  
 

He and his friends had sought out some BBQ and peace to eat lunch.    Which they got.  Nobody bothered them while they ate.  I just happened in and saw him.  Walked by the table towards the mens room and he stopped me and said to me “ making the turn or not started yet “.  I stopped and said “ just working out some on the putting green and needed a break “.    To my shock he engages again.  Says “ yes sir.  Getting it in the hole is the objective.  Well I sure do appreciate the respect we’ve been shown here.  We wanted a quiet lunch and we got that and more.  “. 
 

i said that “folks knew who he was , but we’re not the type fans who wish for a lock of your hair ,” said with a smile. That got a loud laugh out of him.    And he said “ good thing since I don’t have many hairs left “!       I thanked him for speaking with me as they got up to leave.  The restaurant owner came over to ask for a photo for the wall and to give them a to go package of brisket he had made up.  He obliged the pic and thanked him and they left.  
 

He was as normal a man as I ever met.  I’ve always suspected he was playing himself in most movies.  But I know it now.  

 

In some ways maybe it was good he wasn't in the third Godfather movie, but I read recently it was because, while he didn't mind that Pacino begrudge making more than him, he wasn't going to work for a 1/4 of the money Pacino was making in the film.  Can't believe they would treat him like that.   

[aenemated]

6 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

In some ways maybe it was good he wasn't in the third Godfather movie

 

No one should have been in that movie. Oof. 

[golfortennis]

12 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Yep Seaboard Street is a big part of the Dirty Myrtle mystique---- And BTW the wheel guy I was talking about had a building on Seaboard he stored stuff and worked out of

 

I just remember a lot of gentleman's clubs close to Lowe's and Home Depot, and had to look up the street.  Your phrasing made me think there.

[bscinstnct]

11 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Can’t wash off a birthright !  😂.  
 

the first minute tells the tale !  
 

 

 

Ya, me from NY but I straight up hillbilly!

 

I catch a bigmouth bass, take him off the hook, then pack a dip without washing me hands!

 

🤣

[Obee]

11 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

This seems realistic. 

 

About 35 years ago the Nicklaus design company made an agreement with the State of Tennessee to locate "Bear Trace" courses adjacent to Tennessee state parks. The obvious inspiration was the RTJ Trail in Alabama which has been a huge success for that state's pension fund.

 

Disclaimer: I don't know whether or not this was before or after Jack sold his design business, but the timeline suggests it was before. 

 

The course closest to me opened with bent grass greens and thick fescue fringes. The design concept was to force players to carry the ball onto the putting surface or face the added challenge of playing through the fringe.

 

This is a common design choice in milder climates but it's rarely attempted around here due to our hot summer weather and the inability to keep the grasses healthy all season. 

 

A local construction firm with significant golf experience was hired to work with the designers from Nicklaus to implement all the on-site work. That firm was run by one of the area's best amateur players. 

 

From the beginning, the construction firm pushed back on the fescue collars on the simple idea that the course wouldn't be able to keep them alive without constantly soaking them in water (and therefore overwatering the greens). The Nicklaus people said no.

 

The construction firm pushed again. The Nicklaus people said "build it the way we designed it or it won't have our name on it." 

 

For the first several seasons the most notable features around the greens were the burnt-out fescue collars. From time to time the sod would be replaced but it would never survive. 

 

Eventually the collars were removed and the greens themselves were replaced with a hybrid Bermuda that holds up much better than the original bent grass greens. 

 

The course still has Jack's name on it. I assume whoever is receiving the licensing fees is happy they keep coming in.

 

 

Jack and his firm also made the brilliant decision to use bent grass fairways at Bear Creek in Murrieta California Where it can get to 110° in the summer. Yes, Bent grass fairways. You could take divots 2 feet long.

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Ya, me from NY but I straight up hillbilly!

 

I catch a bigmouth bass, take him off the hook, then pack a dip without washing me hands!

 

🤣

Trust me. You’d fit right in.  I have a good pal from Long Island ( lindenhurst) who was a nyc cop until retirement.  .  He’s in myrtle beach now.  And he’s hands down one of the biggest “red necks “ I know.  And he’s old country Irish.  Surname and all.    I heard him say “ fugetaboutit yall “ once in a serious tone. .  I almost had water I was drinking come out my nose 😂.  

[BIG STU]

On 5/31/2022 at 7:03 AM, Greg_B said:

 

Not that it matters much, but I read that entire thread that was linked from 2014 and had to laugh at some of the misinformation posted in it. One of the real head-shakers was someone stating that Jack played a type of putter (unspecified) that took 4 months to make. Anyone who followed Jack's career over the years knows that with a couple of notable exceptions (the "White Fang" Bullseye he won the '67 US Open with and the MacGregor Response oversize in the '86 Masters), he used a Bristol George Low Wizard 600 Sportsman, which resembled a Wilson 8802 somewhat, for decades. Where some of this stuff comes from is a mystery since it is not hard to find documentation.

There were a few Nicklaus experimental putters that I do not know if he actually played them in comp but did go to market. One is the 271 Ironmaster which I have 2 of. I also have an original Low Wizard 600 and a reproduction one plus a Wilson Forged 600 copy. I also have a Macgregor copy of the Bullseye that was marketed as the "White Fang". I have over 100 Ironmaster putters which BTW the 8802 is a Palmer modified Ironmaster. I have messed with Macgregor clubs most of my life. Still play them on a daily basis. My signature is no joke that is what I play either those or one of my sets of VIPs which the Muirfield is the same forging of. Yeah I know my Macs and my Nicklaus needless to say

[Oneput]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:14 AM, aenemated said:

 

Man, I love that movie. When I met Bobby D at Bellagio years back; all I managed to say was "Days of Thunder is awesome." 

 

Also occurred to me how long it's been since I watched it as I never caught the "Eagle Rock ... No, Glendale" line 😂

Bobby Baldwin the honcho at MGM (are you referring to...)

[soap1984]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As mentioned, likely that a settlement will be reached if there are merits to the accusations. 

 

The appendices/original transfer/sale agreements were probably not made public record. 

 

This would not have been brought for no reason in my opinion. That also doesn't make every accusation true either. It isn't totally clear what specific actions they are claiming breached the agreement other than cutting side deals to design courses himself rather than through the company. Without seeing everything it's impossible to know, but these are factual claims so it should be rather clear whether or not jack has done something wrong. 

 

You'd also assume jack has good legal counsel and would consult them prior to engaging in this kind of alleged behaviour. Having said that, older individuals do tend to listen to lawyers less frequently or think they are not necessary at all. At the end of the day it's a business dispute and these things are more common than you'd think. 

[Chunkitgood]

Oh, it was brought for a reason all right.

 

No reason at this point however to think that reason has anything to do with any questionable conduct of Mr. Nicklaus or his not fulfilling any obligation he had to the rather obvious knobs who brought the suit.  I call them knobs because either they have no case or, if they do, are incapable of coming up with a suit that looks like they have a case.

 

This is not to say definitely suit has no merit.  It just reads as if it has no merit, it reads like a rather obvious attempt to create the impression of things that don’t exist.

 

 

[oikos1]

Lol.   You just made a lot of things exist that didn't necessarily need to exist...

[ThinkingPlus]

Greggy throwing Jack under the bus.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-norman-claims-hypocrite-jack-085915303.html

 

Seems like they are frenemies at best. 

[me05501]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Greggy throwing Jack under the bus.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-norman-claims-hypocrite-jack-085915303.html

 

Seems like they are frenemies at best. 

 

Greg seems to live in a hall of mirrors. No matter where he looks, he sees Greg Norman. 

[ThinkingPlus]

19 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

Greg seems to live in a hall of mirrors. No matter where he looks, he sees Greg Norman. 

Narcissus reincarnated...

[golfortennis]

6 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Greggy throwing Jack under the bus.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-norman-claims-hypocrite-jack-085915303.html

 

Seems like they are frenemies at best. 

 

Can't put my finger on it, but something tells me Norman might be closer to the truth on this one.  No idea why, and I could be wrong.

[Man_O_War]

https://www.si.com/golf/news/greg-norman-calls-jack-nicklaus-a-hypocrite-for-backtracking-on-liv-golf

[PJE]

Screw  Greg Norman. 
Loser. And a choke artist 

Edited June 6, 2022 by PJE

[Man_O_War]

6 minutes ago, PJE said:

Screw  Greg Norman. 
Loser. And a choke artist 

considering Tiger's past, he comes out as a man of integrity with saying no to 9 figure sum from LIV. 

 9 figures? insane money being thrown around.