*Graphite Design Lovers Anonymous* Tour AD UB vs IZ vs XC and NOW vs TP! ...and HD....and VR

[jholz]

12 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Becuase as heads change YoY the CG and etc is slightly shifted around and spin and launch are effected in various ways. A tweaked shaft profile may help that for some players.

 

A reasonable point, but....

 

Are you suggesting that shaft manufacturers are shifting product qualities to match with new head offerings?

 

If so, how does that work?

 

Do OEM's send new heads to GD to test and design shafts around? Or is GD just taking their best guess from provided, static specs?

 

If the latter - I'm sticking with what I've got. 

Edited October 8, 2024 by jholz

[jholz]

Duplicate post - my bad!

Edited October 8, 2024 by jholz

[third-times-a-charm]

2 hours ago, jholz said:

 

A reasonable point, but....

 

Are you suggesting that shaft manufacturers are shifting product qualities to match with new head offerings?

 

If so, how does that work?

 

Do OEM's send new heads to GD to test and design shafts around? Or is GD just taking their best guess from provided, static specs?

 

If the latter - I'm sticking with what I've got. 

I dont think its a direct partnership but we can definitely see that shaft manufacturers follow OEM head design trends along with player trends as golf evolves - and graphite materials evolve.

 

Shafts were very boardy like steel wood shafts at first, and then shaft makers put out the mid-soft profile which became extremely popular with the Bluboard and AD DI releases when the materials became advanced enough.

 

I dont think club head OEMs send heads to shaft makers, but shaft makers 100% do testing with various heads to see what happens.

 

Player preferences that change with material and OEM head advancement also takes place such as the "extra stiff shaft tip" fad which became popular (but not first done by) the Ventus Velocore line of shafts as of recent.

[Judge Smails]

2 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Becuase as heads change YoY the CG and etc is slightly shifted around and spin and launch are effected in various ways. A tweaked shaft profile may help that for some players.

 

I found that my old DI worked great in a 910 and 915 Titleist head, but it is no longer the favorite for me personally.

[phizzy30]

3 hours ago, eddiecut said:

I just put a VF 7x in my TSR3, my gosh.... game changer. 

 

Tensei White would spin too much on miss hits, Ventus Black I just lost, moved to the VF and I love my driver again. Great shaft.

Sounds like me.  I went through a ton of shafts including the ones you listed plus maybe 15 more until I put the VF in the bag.  It's literally the unicorn that I thought I would never find, lol. 

Edited October 8, 2024 by phizzy30

[phizzy30]

3 hours ago, jholz said:

I'd argue that the original AD-DI is probably the best shaft in the AD line. Similar to Diamana Blueboard. It's just a shaft that works. Why change?

I disagree, but I think that GD makes some of the best shafts that still retain feel.  They're a bit behind when it comes to shaft tech which would be my only knock against them.  

Edited October 8, 2024 by phizzy30

[dwboston]

2 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I disagree, but I think that GD makes some of the best shafts that still retain feel.  They're a bit behind when it comes to shaft tech which would be my only knock against them.  

 

For all the vaunted technology in the market leading shafts, you don't hear about GD shafts repeatedly snapping above the adapter, or of GD/Pro's Choice denying warranty claims. 

[eddiecut]

Anyone use a GD driving Iron shaft? Love the VF in my driver, trying to get something to feel as good. 

[third-times-a-charm]

Well, CPO had VF fairway shafts for $130 so I picked one up and after my rewards points it was like $110. Cant pass that deal up.

 

Hows everyone like the VF in fairways? Thinking about popping it into my 4 or 7 wood but not sure which - I'm thinking the 7w to bring the flight down a touch and flatter.

[Mob]

My HD is supposed to arrive today.  I will put it in play this weekend, and see how it does on the launch monitor/SIM vs. the UB and the TP.  Looking forward to see which one of these profiles matches my swing best.  They are all close to each other on Graphite Design's chart which shows launch and spin.  Also close on their stiffness chart for the 3 areas of the shaft.  I expect I can get all 3 to work, but hoping one is clearly a better match.

 

I did play 9 holes yesterday after work with the UB and drove the ball really well, so I may be back on track with my swing.

[Judge Smails]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:39 PM, Judge Smails said:

Love hearing that you have been through the same experience as me!  Still going strong with the VR, for now!

AND.... back to the TP!! I don't know why on earth they discontinued this profile!

[Mob]

So my AD HD came today and I went and walked 9 holes with it, then got on the launch monitor to compare the HD, UB, and TP.

 

I really liked the HD.  Great performance on the course with a lively kick at impact.  Then I hit all 3 on the launch monitor.  Of the 3, the UB probably didn't fit my swing compared to the other 2, both in dispersion and feel.  The HD and the TP both felt really good, and performed very similarly for me on the launch monitor.  Dispersion was alittle better with TP.  I am playing 2 rounds this weekend, and will play each of them and see if one of them stands out vs. the other.

 

I am trying to attach launch monitor data, but it comes across upside down and I can't correct it.  will try again.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2024 by Mob

[jeffrey r]

13 hours ago, Mob said:

So my AD HD came today and I went and walked 9 holes with it, then got on the launch monitor to compare the HD, UB, and TP.

 

I really liked the HD.  Great performance on the course with a lively kick at impact.  Then I hit all 3 on the launch monitor.  Of the 3, the UB probably didn't fit my swing compared to the other 2, both in dispersion and feel.  The HD and the TP both felt really good, and performed very similarly for me on the launch monitor.  Dispersion was alittle better with TP.  I am playing 2 rounds this weekend, and will play each of them and see if one of them stands out vs. the other.

 

 

Good write-up. I have played the HD, TP and VR extensively, all in the Max 10K head. I tried the UB, but did not really get along. I would describe the other three as follows.

 

The VR is kind of the easiest to play. Easy to turn over, easy to swing, but still good overall characteristics in terms of spin and launch. My biggest fear/miss with the VR is an overcooked draw. Currently in my bag.

 

The HD is kind of the most balanced--just a joy to play, easy to turn over (but less than the VR). Love the HD, and it can go back in the bag any time. My biggest miss with the HD was too high and spinny for whatever reason.

 

The TP is kind of the sexiest one of the bunch, so to speak. Just a dynamic force, and a pleasure to play. It allows me to go after it a bit more, but also requires me to go after it a bit more. So, when I get up to the tee box, and see trees on the left and right, or water down the right or left, and don't commit to my swing, the TP is more punishing than the other two. If I commit to it, the TP is fantastic. That is a "me" issue. Other than that, I just love the TP.

 

I also have the IZ, but can't quite figure that one out, lol. It's in a similar ballpark, but I don't seem to get along quite as well with it (at least I think so).

 

YMMV.

[Mob]

44 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Good write-up. I have played the HD, TP and VR extensively, all in the Max 10K head. I tried the UB, but did not really get along. I would describe the other three as follows.

 

The VR is kind of the easiest to play. Easy to turn over, easy to swing, but still good overall characteristics in terms of spin and launch. My biggest fear/miss with the VR is an overcooked draw. Currently in my bag.

 

The HD is kind of the most balanced--just a joy to play, easy to turn over (but less than the VR). Love the HD, and it can go back in the bag any time. My biggest miss with the HD was too high and spinny for whatever reason.

 

The TP is kind of the sexiest one of the bunch, so to speak. Just a dynamic force, and a pleasure to play. It allows me to go after it a bit more, but also requires me to go after it a bit more. So, when I get up to the tee box, and see trees on the left and right, or water down the right or left, and don't commit to my swing, the TP is more punishing than the other two. If I commit to it, the TP is fantastic. That is a "me" issue. Other than that, I just love the TP.

 

I also have the IZ, but can't quite figure that one out, lol. It's in a similar ballpark, but I don't seem to get along quite as well with it (at least I think so).

 

YMMV.

I have the VR in my 5 wood and really like the shaft, but I agree it’s easy to hook it, which is one of my misses, so I wouldn’t want it in my driver.

[9thGreenAt9]

On 10/8/2024 at 4:23 PM, phizzy30 said:

I disagree, but I think that GD makes some of the best shafts that still retain feel.  They're a bit behind when it comes to shaft tech which would be my only knock against them.  

 

what makes them behind in shaft tech? and to who? you're obviously liking VF so I guess performance>tech!

[phizzy30]

8 hours ago, 9thGreenAt9 said:

 

what makes them behind in shaft tech? and to who? you're obviously liking VF so I guess performance>tech!

M40X and T1100 is older tech that's been around at least 5 years if I remember correctly which is what GD mainly uses in their modern line up.  MCA and Fuji have surpassed them with Xlink, 1K, Velocore, etc purely in terms of tech.  That's not to say that GD is mediocre in anyway.    

Edited October 12, 2024 by phizzy30

[hitnfades]

I’ve been away for a while, but I’m back GD Lovers… I have been hitting the XC in my Paradym driver so well that I purchased an OG Apex UW 19* with a BB 7x from CPO in this spring. This combo has been great for me from the tee and deck.  I will say I do like the feel of the XC a bit better, but they are very similar. Overall I get along well with this particular head and GD shaft combos.  So, it’s difficult to get too far off base for me and the reason the top of my bag/golf area are full of GD shafts.
 

Current line up of GD shafts in OG UW’s:

- 17* with IZ 8s (playing short)

- 19* with BB 7x 

- 19* with UB 7x

- 21* with UB 7x

 

Yes, I am aware I have an issue, but I am okay with it. 😆 

 

[third-times-a-charm]

47 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

M40X and T1100 is older tech that's been around at least 5 years if I remember correctly which is what GD mainly uses in their modern line up.  MCA and Fuji have surpassed them with Xlink, 1K, Velocore, etc purely in terms of tech.  That's not to say that GD is mediocre in anyway.    

M40X and T1100 are the actual graphite fibers, and 'velocore' and 'xlink' and etc are just made up marketing terms for 'proprietary' METHODS of laying up the graphite fibers.

 

Thats not to say GD doesnt lay up graphite layers/cores in their own special ways and dont just make up terms for it.

 

It's also a very JDM vs NA market way of telling people what you're doing. Making up whiz-bang terms and focusing on them is very NA market, while the JDm market is more subtle and focused on performance.

[hank376]

Recently fit into an DI 85x hybrid (TSR2 18 degree). Was amazed at the feel and the little baby draws it produced (which never happens for me). Definitely went into the fitting looking for something in the 105 weight range but couldn’t argue the results. Usually use overly stiff and heavier shafts to help with spin and launch. Height isn’t a problem as I can usually hit it high on command. I know the DI hybrid is a different profile than the “woods” version but what would be a good place to start if I wanted to try some Tour AD options for driver and maybe 3 wood. Currently go between a Ventus TR Blue 6x and the new Diamana WB 63x in a ping G430 LST. My usual miss (with any set-up) is high, spinny and right. Spin is usually higher than most, SS around 110-115, can tend to be aggressive in the downswing but I always hit up on it. Pretty much have a full setup in the woods with ventus black, and the TR Blue, Diamana WB and D limited, and Tensei White stuff, just haven’t been sold on anything and not dead set on a particular profile. Wanting to explore the GD rabbit hole. I’m game for whatever. Let’s hear it. If you need any other info from me let me know! 

[Mob]

I played both the TP and the HD this weekend.  While I am still struggling with my swing currently, the HD seemed to be a better match for me on the course.  I really like the feel of both shafts and the numbers look good with both on the simulator, so on course performance will dictate which one ends up in the bag.

[third-times-a-charm]

Put the VF in my 7 wood and just got back from the range. WOW what a great fairway wood shaft. Not too low launch. Very stable. Spin stays in a good window. It's like if you've ever tried a ventus black in your fairways but been like "this needs more feel and a touch more spin" then the VF is the exact shaft you were wanting.

Edited October 13, 2024 by third-times-a-charm

[JustinTan]

Just received by Tour Ad Game Changer 6x and 7x for my driver and fairway wood.

 

For any of you wondering, the GC is extremely stout. For some reason, i can feel the shaft being thicker in terms of outer diameter. Its feels extremely stable, i would dare say more stable than my VF or HD or XC in the same flex FEEL wise.

 

It launches slightly higher than my VF but at the same time spin is relatively low. The downside is that it can feel boardy at times due to that thicker wall O.D.

 

I think its great for someone who has a very aggressive/deliberate tempo with the driver but need abit more launch compared to the VF. If you are smooth swinging, you might find this shaft very boardy, so go down a flex.

[Mob]

Just spent some time on the simulator tinkering with both shafts again, and on the SIM/Launch monitor, the dispersion, spin rate and club speed is slightly better with the TP over the HD.  When I look at the bend profile for each online, they are extremely similar.  The bend profile for the TP is 3-3-4 and the HD is 3-3-3+, so the TP has an ever so slightly stiffer tip but similar butt and mid shaft bend profile.  I am going down to Nashville and playing Troubadour on Saturday, so I am going to take the TP.  I have my member-member match on Sunday, so if the TP does well on Saturday it will stay in the bag for Sunday.  Looks like I will figure it out, just in time for the golf season to end.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Mob

[jeffrey r]

17 hours ago, Mob said:

Just spent some time on the simulator tinkering with both shafts again, and on the SIM/Launch monitor, the dispersion, spin rate and club speed is slightly better with the TP over the HD.  When I look at the bend profile for each online, they are extremely similar.  The bend profile for the TP is 3-3-4 and the HD is 3-3-3+, so the TP has an ever so slightly stiffer tip but similar butt and mid shaft bend profile.  I am going down to Nashville and playing Troubadour on Saturday, so I am going to take the TP.  I have my member-member match on Sunday, so if the TP does well on Saturday it will stay in the bag for Sunday.  Looks like I will figure it out, just in time for the golf season to end.

 

I have similar experiences as you. The HD is back in my Max 10K, with the TP in reserve. Both so good.

 

I gave the VR another go, but it is still too inconsistent for me. As I said above, the HD is still the most balanced for me, while I can feel a slightly stiffer tip in the TP. The TP is like an HD+ for me, but the profile of these two definitely works for me.

[Mob]

39 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

 

I have similar experiences as you. The HD is back in my Max 10K, with the TP in reserve. Both so good.

 

I gave the VR another go, but it is still too inconsistent for me. As I said above, the HD is still the most balanced for me, while I can feel a slightly stiffer tip in the TP. The TP is like an HD+ for me, but the profile of these two definitely works for me.

Yes, it seems that we are seeing these shafts the same way.  My swing is alittle off right now compared to a few months ago, so testing anything right now is alittle difficult/inconsistent.  That being said, I really like both shafts and could game either the HD or the TP.  While I haven't played more than 1-2 rounds with either shaft so far, my launch monitor numbers are slightly better with the TP, but my on course experience was better with the HD, at least for the initial round.  I like the feel of both shafts; I agree that the TP feels just ever so slightly more firm/stable than the HD but not enough of a difference to influence the final decision.  I wish I were swinging the club well right now, as that would make this a lot easier.  I took both shafts on the course this past weekend and switched them after 9 holes.  I am going to fully commit to the TP on Saturday, and then go from there.  

[third-times-a-charm]

Welp I have another CQ inbound for driver testing lol

 

Looking for a touch more launch and square up the face a degree or two more vs my trimmed down XC.

 

Trying to decide if I want to play it at 44.5 or 45.

[Mitchell]

After testing quite a few options in both driver and fairway, settled into HD 7s in driver and UB 7s in fairway, each tipped an additional 1/2”. The profiles just seem to sync exceptionally well with my respective deliveries for each. 

[Wardonation]

VF launch with a touch more spin, what GD shaft? Thank you

[third-times-a-charm]

1 hour ago, Wardonation said:

VF launch with a touch more spin, what GD shaft? Thank you

HD and mess with tipping maybe a bit more if spin is too much. It's what I'm doing in my fairways right now. VF in 7 wood and HD in 4 wood.

Edited October 17, 2024 by third-times-a-charm

[Wardonation]

6 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

HD and mess with tipping maybe a bit more if spin is too much. It's what I'm doing in my fairways right now. VF in 7 wood and HD in 4 wood.

Thank you as always!!!!!