*Graphite Design Lovers Anonymous* Tour AD UB vs IZ vs XC and NOW vs TP! ...and HD....and VR

[phizzy30]

15 hours ago, Ty_Guy said:

Graphite Design lovers, I want to try a GD driver shaft. Looking for a recommended starting point.

 

I have the AD DI in my 7w and it is quickly becoming one of my favorite clubs. In driver, I've always used an LA Golf shaft. Bryson series has been my favorite. Though, I see it has about the exact opposite Tip/Mid/Butt stiffness bend as the AD DI. I'm a little flummoxed my 7W swing could be so different than my driver swing. I know with putters, a 90 degree toe hang and 0 degree toe hang will work equally well for players into that style. Are the opposite profiles in driver shaft the same thing, just solving the same problem from opposite ends?

 

Anyhoo, I love the AD DI in the 7w. Should I start there with driver or start with something else?

I'd recommend GC since you like Bryson series which should be really stiff in the mid and handle but softens up a bit in the tip.  GC still has that bend/load to it although less than the DI which kicks like a mule.  It's easy to turnover but still stable enough, IMO.  It's also very smooth.  Launch was a tick lower and spun less than DI for me.  

[Wardonation]

On 2/25/2025 at 5:23 PM, phizzy30 said:

T1100 is straight up rebar, lol, but stable.  If you can get over the feel, it may work well for you.  TR black is similar to T1100 but at least if has some feel.  If you like the OG black in terms of performance but want more feel, Velo+ black is the way to go.  

GC vs VF talk to me Phizzzzz... LOve VF but need a touch more launch...

Edited March 9 by Wardonation

[Wardonation]

On 12/20/2024 at 11:10 AM, mattman said:

I got to see some numbers with the GC on trackman last night. Super promising, really liking it. It's been a long time since I've tried a mid-soft shaft in the driver and it seems like this might be the play. Closest thing would have been a VF 7 X I got fit into this summer (too heavy imo after playing with it for a few months. Heaviest shaft I had played in driver up to that point). I seemed to leave the VF out right too often unless I was really feeling fresh and I think it was just heavier than I needed it to be.

 

My driver misses tend to spin a lot (high push fade), and I was seeing some of that with the GC on trackman, but my good stuff was really good. 110-111 club (solid for me), 1.48 smash very consistently, 11-13* launch, and my best ones had about 2400 RPM's on em (pro v1x ball) and were getting around 100 feet in the air. Overall I was flying them 275-280 with rollout getting me over 300 on the best ones. This is not something I've seen since mid-summer (hard to compare 1:1 vs previous set ups as well as my swing got bad/sloppy and only recently starting to mend that). The combined extra launch and sub-2500 spin (or even sub-3k!) for me has not been there and most of my on course drives the latter half of this year topped out 275-280, with most settling around 260-265. The feel of this shaft is awesome too. Somebody dm'd me asking how GC compared to TP, and I didn't have a great answer as I have not played TP in driver (only fairway woods), but after some more time with this in driver and TP in fairways I do think this shaft has a more pleasant feel to it. With how popular the VF has been this year on tour, I wonder if the GC will see similar popularity. Both are excellent. Very promising with the GC so far, pretty sure it'll be in my driver next season... may look at moving from TP to GC at some point in the spring in one or both fairways, we'll see...

 

Matt

VF vs GC in terms of feel? Thank you

[mattman]

1 hour ago, Wardonation said:

VF vs GC in terms of feel? Thank you

VF has more feel imo

[Mob]

I had the opposite experience with the GC and the VF shafts.  I found the GC very smooth and a pleasure to swing.  I found the VF stiff to flex and hard to load, which affected how I swung the club.  I continue to go back and forth between the GC and the HD.  I get 1 mph more speed with the HD and it feels like a little more kick, but the dispersion with the GC is slightly better.  I continue to hit them head to head on my simulator every few weeks and really can't decide between the 2, based on SIM numbers.  The real test will have to be on the course performance.

[drza3]

4 hours ago, Mob said:

I had the opposite experience with the GC and the VF shafts.  I found the GC very smooth and a pleasure to swing.  I found the VF stiff to flex and hard to load, which affected how I swung the club.  I continue to go back and forth between the GC and the HD.  I get 1 mph more speed with the HD and it feels like a little more kick, but the dispersion with the GC is slightly better.  I continue to hit them head to head on my simulator every few weeks and really can't decide between the 2, based on SIM numbers.  The real test will have to be on the course performance.

I had the same experience. GC feels so damn good but I lost it left more than I wanted. One of the best feeling shafts I’ve swung. I think I got too quick at times and it was just left of left. User error. Mid/high launch for me. I’m sticking in a UB for now.
 

VF felt stiff to me as well and messed up my swing. I’d get a bomb here and there with the VF but I just swing it poorly. Again probably user error but it just felt like a struggle to me even though on paper I have enough speed 

 

 

[Mob]

3 minutes ago, drza3 said:

I had the same experience. GC feels so damn good but I lost it left more than I wanted. One of the best feeling shafts I’ve swung. I think I got too quick at times and it was just left of left. User error. Mid/high launch for me. I’m sticking in a UB for now.
 

VF felt stiff to me as well and messed up my swing. I’d get a bomb here and there with the VF but I just swing it poorly. Again probably user error but it just felt like a struggle to me even though on paper I have enough speed 

 

 

I've had some draws turn into a hook with the GC, but I can do that with almost any shaft.  I agree that the GC shaft is not an "anti-hook" shaft (I am left handed).  I am currently also testing the 2024 Blue Velacore +, and I find it to have a little more of an "anti-hook" capability than the GC.

[mattman]

Hit the GC a bunch tonight. I think the firmness I get from it is 1) the handle being stiff and 2) it being quite a stiff shaft for me in the 6 X. The 6 S might have been more appropriate for me.

 

It is a smooth shaft but I have to swing really well and hard to feel it load properly. The VF has a softer handle and I didn't feel like I had to work as hard with it. Granted I got rid of it a good while ago so it's hard to 1:1 compare it to GC. Will probably be listing my GC soon as I find the diamana BB I picked up more friendly.

Edited March 10 by mattman

[drza3]

14 hours ago, Mob said:

I've had some draws turn into a hook with the GC, but I can do that with almost any shaft.  I agree that the GC shaft is not an "anti-hook" shaft (I am left handed).  I am currently also testing the 2024 Blue Velacore +, and I find it to have a little more of an "anti-hook" capability than the GC.

I’ve played the og ventus blue and agree with you. Way less hook prone but I find I have a slight two way miss. I’m gaming a UB right now and have a pretty reliable draw but like you I can still hook any shaft 

 

I’m in the UB 6tx and tried the GC 6x. Maybe I’ll try out a GC 6tx. But really I should just stick with a UB and play a draw. 

 

 

[phizzy30]

On 3/9/2025 at 9:12 AM, Wardonation said:

GC vs VF talk to me Phizzzzz... LOve VF but need a touch more launch...

1* difference launch and more prone to the lefts with GC.  

[Mob]

I spent some more time on the Simulator today with all 3 shafts.  I seem to consistently hit the HD slightly better than the GC.  I tend to square the face better with the HD and my contact point on the face was more centered overall.  Dispersion was also a little better with the HD.  Club head speed and ball speed was pretty similar with both shafts.  I think I will start the season committed to the HD and see how it goes.  On a good day, I will hit 7-9 fairways in regulation.  Looking forward to the start of the season.

[CDM]

So been gaming the UB in my 3 wood.  I picked up a DI a few weeks back. 

 

My game the DI is much better overall.  The UB was longer overall but I had some issues on feeling the loading and release right.  Would lose it now and then. 

 

Did not have that issue with the DI. One full round with it and the person I play with all the time said "the DI for sure is the better shaft for you".   I couild tell but when someone else sees it, its pretty obvious. 

 

Will still test them both as it warms up but its crazy to me how much difference there is between the UB and DI. if just looking at the chart GD spec's them at  2/2/4  vs 2+/2+/4+ so one "would think" they are not much different in total but they really ARE.  

[Hitru]

I have not played many Graphite Design shafts but, I’ve played a UB8x in my 7wd for about a year. It has been amazing except when I get lazy with my swing, which leads to a double cross. It doesn’t happen often that it will go left, but when it does, it’s at the worst time. Typically play a fade with all my clubs. Recently switched my 4wd from a BF70x tipped 1/2” to a ZF70x tipped 1/2” and the launch/height is definitely lower but I have yet to see a snappy left yet. Off the tee when needed, it’s amazing. After some range time, the ZF70x is getting the same height off the deck as well.

 

Ive learned from my very limited experience and from reading here that GD can be the best thing on the planet or, what am I doing swinging this.

 

Have a ZF80s, ZF80x and GT80s to test in both 4wd and 7wd to see if they can help minimize my miss left. The plan is tip all three 1/2” cut to 42.5” playing length for my 4wd. Any that really don’t work will get cut to 41.5” playing length with varying tipping if needed from feel.

 

Gotta say, this is my first post on this very long running GD thread. I’ve learned a lot from this thread, thanks @third-times-a-charm @phizzy30

You two have really helped me with where to start with shaft selection in the last 5 years, and have not led me astray yet. Thanks for everything!

Edited March 12 by Hitru
Spelling

[Golfrnut]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

So been gaming the UB in my 3 wood.  I picked up a DI a few weeks back. 

 

My game the DI is much better overall.  The UB was longer overall but I had some issues on feeling the loading and release right.  Would lose it now and then. 

 

Did not have that issue with the DI. One full round with it and the person I play with all the time said "the DI for sure is the better shaft for you".   I couild tell but when someone else sees it, its pretty obvious. 

 

Will still test them both as it warms up but its crazy to me how much difference there is between the UB and DI. if just looking at the chart GD spec's them at  2/2/4  vs 2+/2+/4+ so one "would think" they are not much different in total but they really ARE.  

I stepped down a flex in the UB I have. It still ‘feels’ stiffer to me than the DI. I have had the assumption the material used contributes some to that. I felt the same way about the OB blueboards vs the newer gens when they updated the material. Even though they profile the same, the feel for me hasn’t quite been. 

[Golf Pig]

16 hours ago, CDM said:

Will still test them both as it warms up but its crazy to me how much difference there is between the UB and DI. if just looking at the chart GD spec's them at  2/2/4  vs 2+/2+/4+ so one "would think" they are not much different in total but they really ARE. 

 

15 hours ago, Golfrnut said:

I stepped down a flex in the UB I have. It still ‘feels’ stiffer to me than the DI. I have had the assumption the material used contributes some to that.

 

This echoes my experience with both of these shafts. The UB is definitely more consistent for me. The EI profiles of the UB and DI are very similar. The UB is basically a DI with newer materials. Jump to 11:10 of this video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcs0DWe81IE

 

[Morry]

19 hours ago, CDM said:

So been gaming the UB in my 3 wood.  I picked up a DI a few weeks back. 

 

My game the DI is much better overall.  The UB was longer overall but I had some issues on feeling the loading and release right.  Would lose it now and then. 

 

Did not have that issue with the DI. One full round with it and the person I play with all the time said "the DI for sure is the better shaft for you".   I couild tell but when someone else sees it, its pretty obvious. 

 

Will still test them both as it warms up but its crazy to me how much difference there is between the UB and DI. if just looking at the chart GD spec's them at  2/2/4  vs 2+/2+/4+ so one "would think" they are not much different in total but they really ARE.  

NO surprise

the DI is a Unicorn shaft 

 

 

[BigGameDb]

What's a good GD shaft to try for a 95 mph swing speed?

 

Ideally, something mid or high launch that feels somewhat smooth?

[JPS_17]

@BigGameDb I’d try a AD CQ if you can. I have a 6 S in my driver and really like it. Best combo of launch and spin (for me). Firm handle and mid with a medium tip, so it can tolerate an average swing and still provide a good result. Smooth with a nice kick at the bottom. 

[phizzy30]

8 hours ago, BigGameDb said:

What's a good GD shaft to try for a 95 mph swing speed?

 

Ideally, something mid or high launch that feels somewhat smooth?

CQ/HD/IZ/TP would all fit what you're looking for.  CQ has the most bend/load outta the bunch and could possibly increase launch and spin more HD and IZ feel more linear if that's your cup your cup of tea.  TP has a bit more bend/load than either HD/IZ but not as much as TP so I consider it a tweener.  They are all relatively smooth with the CQ/HD feeling the smoothest to me.  HD/IZ/TP are all relatively firm from tip to handle with subtle tweaks to each section.  CQ has a softer tip and mid section with a firmer handle.

Edited March 19 by phizzy30

[Golf Pig]

Phizzy nailed it. I would also add the VR to the list of shafts to try.

[belh22]

HD vs VR ? 

[Mob]

2 minutes ago, belh22 said:

HD vs VR ? 

For my swing, I found the VR more draw biased than the HD.  Both shafts feel great.

[Shilgy]

23 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

CQ/HD/IZ/TP would all fit what you're looking for.  CQ has the most bend/load outta the bunch and could possibly increase launch and spin more HD and IZ feel more linear if that's your cup your cup of tea.  TP has a bit more bend/load than either HD/IZ but not as much as TP so I consider it a tweener.  They are all relatively smooth with the CQ/HD feeling the smoothest to me.  HD/IZ/TP are all relatively firm from tip to handle with subtle tweaks to each section.  CQ has a softer tip and mid section with a firmer handle.

What?🤔

[mattman]

I've decided I love the GC and it's awesome and smooth afterall. It in the TSR4 is the longest driver set up I've had in at least a good while and I love how stable it is. Pretty darn smooth for how stiff it plays as well. Been able to launch it high and keep spin down which is rare for me

[third-times-a-charm]

After a little hiatus I'm rebuilding the best 3/4w setup I've hit in recent memory. AI Smoke Max w/ an AD HD. It was such a bomber off the tee. Only sold it because I'm a clown.

 

The CQ is still firmly in the bag for driver. I dont think any GD shaft can kick out the TB in 5 wood but I'm thinking I might want to try an IZ there if I can find a good deal on an IZ 7.

[phizzy30]

On 3/19/2025 at 3:45 PM, Shilgy said:

What?🤔

CQ/HD/IZ/TP would all fit what you're looking for.  CQ has the most bend/load outta the bunch and could possibly increase launch and spin more HD and IZ feel more linear if that's your cup your cup of tea.  TP has a bit more bend/load than either HD/IZ but not as much as CQ so I consider it a tweener.  They are all relatively smooth with the CQ/HD feeling the smoothest to me.  HD/IZ/TP are all relatively firm from tip to handle with subtle tweaks to each section.  CQ has a softer tip and mid section with a firmer handle.

Edited March 21 by phizzy30

[Copacetic]

Posted previously looking for a hybrid shaft to match XC in 3 wood and driver. Have since moved to titleist gt3 in 3 wood and driver and kept XC shaft as it was by far the best fit for me. Tried DI in hybrid for a while but hasn’t worked out, have gone back to AV raw white. Which is actually going fine. Still interested in anyone’s experience. Seems like the XC is an unusual one with very soft handle and pretty stout elsewhere. No real close equivalent. 

[Golf Pig]

3 hours ago, Copacetic said:

Posted previously looking for a hybrid shaft to match XC in 3 wood and driver.

 

Have you tried the IZ hybrid?

[phizzy30]

7 hours ago, Copacetic said:

Posted previously looking for a hybrid shaft to match XC in 3 wood and driver. Have since moved to titleist gt3 in 3 wood and driver and kept XC shaft as it was by far the best fit for me. Tried DI in hybrid for a while but hasn’t worked out, have gone back to AV raw white. Which is actually going fine. Still interested in anyone’s experience. Seems like the XC is an unusual one with very soft handle and pretty stout elsewhere. No real close equivalent. 

VF HY is the closest match to XC.  Stiff tip and mid with a firm handle.  I've tested it and it feels linear and smooth without it feeling like rebar.  I also found it to be more stable than either DI/IZ HY.  Kai'li white HY is also another option that has a similar EI profile as the XC but it didn't have as much feel as the VF HY.

[Copacetic]

14 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

VF HY is the closest match to XC.  Stiff tip and mid with a firm handle.  I've tested it and it feels linear and smooth without it feeling like rebar.  I also found it to be more stable than either DI/IZ HY.  Kai'li white HY is also another option that has a similar EI profile as the XC but it didn't have as much feel as the VF HY.

Seems like it might be, had Kai’li in driver previously and found it hit and miss compared to the av raw white although quite similar. 
 

my big worry with the VF is if I get on well with it in hybrid, I’ll then do the expensive next step and and get it in 3 wood and Driver! It wasn’t available to try in my last fitting.