*Graphite Design Lovers Anonymous* Tour AD UB vs IZ vs XC and NOW vs TP! ...and HD....and VR

[third-times-a-charm]

3 hours ago, awtryau89 said:

The DI just works so well for me in my fairways but not in the driver. Fitter doesn't know why. Been struggling with a mini driver until I dropped the DI 7S tipped an inch into it just like my 3 wood and its automatic. Have the DI in my Apex UW as well. Tried it in multiple drivers and tipped/untipped and just doesn't work. Something with my timing. Have a VF I love in my TSR3. Just the same: automatic. Tried it in a Ping 10K. Got the swingweight right and its OK but nothing to write home about. Now I am searching for the right shaft for my Callaway Smoke Max. I like the head a lot because I can work both ways. Currently have an IZ in it tipped 1/2". Its just a little loose. Thinking of trying the UB or the XC. Ive been fit into an XC before and even though its not real popular, it did work for me. Its more like a Diamana white profile fell for me. If anyone has a 6S they want to part with let me know. Bonus if it has a Callaway adapter.

 

Before I got to the second half of your post I was going to say UB. It's the first shaft thats worked in all 3 woods for me - like the DI does for some guys.

 

I have (had) the same problem you do with driver where nothing I ever tried in a fairway worked - until I gave the UB a fair shake and now I love it. I think it's something to do with timing in driver that maybe you, I, or others like that maybe we take the driver back for a longer or shorter backswing than we're supposed to vs the other woods...just my guess.

[awtryau89]

5 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

Before I got to the second half of your post I was going to say UB. It's the first shaft thats worked in all 3 woods for me - like the DI does for some guys.

 

I have (had) the same problem you do with driver where nothing I ever tried in a fairway worked - until I gave the UB a fair shake and now I love it. I think it's something to do with timing in driver that maybe you, I, or others like that maybe we take the driver back for a longer or shorter backswing than we're supposed to vs the other woods...just my guess.

Probably not changing anything in my fairways but definitely looking for the right driver shaft. The IZ am am using now works only when I am very deliberate and slow my swing way down. When I put a normal swing on it it feels like the head can't catch up and the face stays open for a block. Then I over correct and go left. The VF doesn't have any issues with keeping up but can't really work it both ways and I would like to be able to do that.

[dwboston]

8 hours ago, awtryau89 said:

The DI just works so well for me in my fairways but not in the driver. Fitter doesn't know why. Been struggling with a mini driver until I dropped the DI 7S tipped an inch into it just like my 3 wood and its automatic. Have the DI in my Apex UW as well. Tried it in multiple drivers and tipped/untipped and just doesn't work. Something with my timing. Have a VF I love in my TSR3. Just the same: automatic. Tried it in a Ping 10K. Got the swingweight right and its OK but nothing to write home about. Now I am searching for the right shaft for my Callaway Smoke Max. I like the head a lot because I can work both ways. Currently have an IZ in it tipped 1/2". Its just a little loose. Thinking of trying the UB or the XC. Ive been fit into an XC before and even though its not real popular, it did work for me. Its more like a Diamana white profile fell for me. If anyone has a 6S they want to part with let me know. Bonus if it has a Callaway adapter.

 

DI 6 and 7 are almost different shafts.  Conventional wisdom on this forum when the DI was introduced was that the 6 was looser and less stable than the 7, and it needed additional tipping to make it playable.  I pretty much agree with it.  I used to play heavier shafts and loved DI 7S in the driver for several years.  When i dropped down in weight I never got comfortable with 6S in the driver - I much preferred BB 6S to DI 6S, even though most folks liked BB more as a FW shaft.  I still play BB 6S in my backup driver and have BB 7S in my 4W.

[Qegurezi]

17 hours ago, awtryau89 said:

The DI just works so well for me in my fairways but not in the driver. Fitter doesn't know why. Been struggling with a mini driver until I dropped the DI 7S tipped an inch into it just like my 3 wood and its automatic. Have the DI in my Apex UW as well. Tried it in multiple drivers and tipped/untipped and just doesn't work. Something with my timing. Have a VF I love in my TSR3. Just the same: automatic. Tried it in a Ping 10K. Got the swingweight right and its OK but nothing to write home about. Now I am searching for the right shaft for my Callaway Smoke Max. I like the head a lot because I can work both ways. Currently have an IZ in it tipped 1/2". Its just a little loose. Thinking of trying the UB or the XC. Ive been fit into an XC before and even though its not real popular, it did work for me. Its more like a Diamana white profile fell for me. If anyone has a 6S they want to part with let me know. Bonus if it has a Callaway adapter.

 

I'm the same. Absolutely amazing in 3 wood but can't get on top of it in the driver. 

[phizzy30]

23 hours ago, awtryau89 said:

Probably not changing anything in my fairways but definitely looking for the right driver shaft. The IZ am am using now works only when I am very deliberate and slow my swing way down. When I put a normal swing on it it feels like the head can't catch up and the face stays open for a block. Then I over correct and go left. The VF doesn't have any issues with keeping up but can't really work it both ways and I would like to be able to do that.

You can still play great golf only playing one shot shape.  Most tour pros almost always stick to their stock shot and won't go the other way unless they're forced to.  Also, trying to find a shaft that allows you to go both ways can mess up your swing in the long run and can get costly.  If the VF works for you and feels right, stick with it.  

Edited May 24, 2024 by phizzy30

[mizuno player]

I had to get a VF to try. I was looking to take a little spin off and lower ball flight slightly. I hit the VF today. It may actually be too low spin! Never thought I'd say that. I hit some today that I thought would be a little further based on the UB I have. I came up about 10 yards shy. I'm gonna hit again tomorrow and pay attention to impact location. It felt really good and my dispersion was pretty tight. Only one bad one all day and that was the player not the club . 

[Morry]

On 5/23/2024 at 8:30 PM, dwboston said:

 

DI 6 and 7 are almost different shafts.  Conventional wisdom on this forum when the DI was introduced was that the 6 was looser and less stable than the 7, and it needed additional tipping to make it playable.  I pretty much agree with it.  I used to play heavier shafts and loved DI 7S in the driver for several years.  When i dropped down in weight I never got comfortable with 6S in the driver - I much preferred BB 6S to DI 6S, even though most folks liked BB more as a FW shaft.  I still play BB 6S in my backup driver and have BB 7S in my 4W.

This is Really interesting .....that the DI 6 and 7 play differently......have a 7 in my 7 wood untipped and Love the release ...

wonder if I should tip the 6 if I try it in my 5 wood....

 

 

[Sea-Hawks]

Man....on the wagon again! I put a DI 8x into my 5wd and it's awesome, replaced the Ping Tour 75x. Flight and accuracy is up, surprisingly so is the distance. Weirdly it doesn't feel like I have to work at it so much.....now thinking of a 7x or 8x for the 3wd.

 

Interesting to note others saying the DI 6 is different than the 7 and 8.....I had the DI 6x, twice (damn WRX) and it always felt loose. So that being said.....should I put a 7x in the driver or tip the hell out of a DI 6x?? 🤔

[mizuno player]

Just a follow-up.  Firstly the eyes can deceive you.  I thought I could benefit from a slightly lower flight and spin.  Well. 

 

I was on a trackman yesterday with driver. Outside. 

 

UB was perfect. My spin was 21/2300 pretty consistently. Launch was about 13. 280 in the air. Not bad for 57. 

 

The VF flight was good but the spin was under 2k. Just not playable in the real world for me. So on the BST it goes. My search is over. 

[drcohen]

Recently switched to the IZ 7s in my driver. Best shaft I've ever had, definitely gonna keep it as long as possible. Super consistent spin rates, keeps my dispersion tight, launches high, and feels phenomenal. I've struggled for years to find a driver shaft that I felt comfortable with, and saw the results I wanted. In the last year alone, this is my 3rd shaft change.

 

I have negative AoA so I need a shaft that is gonna help me launch the ball high without adding any excess spin. I also like a heavier driver shaft because it helps me slow down my tempo. I started out last year with the Diamana BF, felt great but didn't launch high enough. Then went to the Speeder Evo V, felt too heavy and still didn't get the ball quite as high as I wanted.

 

Did more research, and found myself in between the DI, or the IZ. Went with the IZ because from what I've seen in the forums it launched higher than the DI. Also, the IZ has a stiffer butt section which I like better because I'm not an aggressive loader. Plus my local used golf shop had one with a callaway tip for a good price. Highly recommend for someone like me that has negative AoA. 

Edited May 30, 2024 by drcohen

[JamesG12]

Two questions I need help with:

 

about me: I play DI 5x in Driver, DI 7s in fairway woods, apex UW, etc. I switch a few woods in and out but 7s seems to work great for me in the 3w, 5w, 17 UW space. 
 

1. BRNR shaft weight. I’m planning to get a DI for my 11.5 BRNR but unsure if I should go 6s or 7s (or potentially 6x I guess given I like the x in driver). Any thoughts?

 

2. as much as I like the DI 5x in my driver I’m debating trying the IZ again. I used to love it in my fairways, feels more stable to me. I seem to do best in the mid to high 50s shaft weight in driver… should I try the 5x or the 5s? 
 

thanks all!

[phizzy30]

1.  I'm guessing it safe to assume that you'll play your BRNR at a shorter length than driver.  DI-6X would make sense then because of the weight factor.

2.  That's up to you.  For me personally, I like my driver shaft to be really stiff to keep spin down and help with dispersion. 

Edited May 31, 2024 by phizzy30

[third-times-a-charm]

17 hours ago, JamesG12 said:

Two questions I need help with:

 

about me: I play DI 5x in Driver, DI 7s in fairway woods, apex UW, etc. I switch a few woods in and out but 7s seems to work great for me in the 3w, 5w, 17 UW space. 
 

1. BRNR shaft weight. I’m planning to get a DI for my 11.5 BRNR but unsure if I should go 6s or 7s (or potentially 6x I guess given I like the x in driver). Any thoughts?

 

2. as much as I like the DI 5x in my driver I’m debating trying the IZ again. I used to love it in my fairways, feels more stable to me. I seem to do best in the mid to high 50s shaft weight in driver… should I try the 5x or the 5s? 
 

thanks all!

I tested a UB 6 in my BRNR 13.5 at stock length and it was pretty awesome. I dont know if I would go a 70g shaft at 43.75" but thats just me.

[Jshap1212]

So I just got an absolute steal on a 6s XC on eBay. I sold off my sim 2 max a while back which had an IZ in it which was amazing. I traded for an tsr 2 which I thought was going to be the answer that experiment lasted all of two weeks.
 

Anyways to get to the point. After lurking on this topic I read quite a bit that it’s anti left which has me a bit scared, as my miss is a push but my normal shot is a tight little draw. Will this shaft  amplify my push? Currently in my rogue max ls im playing a HZRDUS yellow 6.0 in 60grams (for reference) 

 

Thanks in advance!

[CTgamer]

Anyone have experience with the DI or TP in 7X vs 7TX and can compare?

 

I cruise about 110 with driver, maybe up to 113ish full out. 7X DI untipped always felt great in the butt and mid, but too soft in the tip. Thinking about tipping it or moving to 7TX, but don’t want the handle to get too stiff. 
 

It seems like the 7X TP could also be an alternative, with a similar but tighter feel. Figure 7TX in TP would be too much, but if anyone has experience with that too I’d be interested. 
 

For reference, I’ve played GP 7X and found the handle and mid too soft (at least in relation to the stiff tip) but liked the launch and spin. I also liked the 9003/P9003 but they launched a little low. 
 

Much appreciate your help all!

[third-times-a-charm]

On 6/5/2024 at 1:44 AM, Jshap1212 said:

So I just got an absolute steal on a 6s XC on eBay. I sold off my sim 2 max a while back which had an IZ in it which was amazing. I traded for an tsr 2 which I thought was going to be the answer that experiment lasted all of two weeks.
 

Anyways to get to the point. After lurking on this topic I read quite a bit that it’s anti left which has me a bit scared, as my miss is a push but my normal shot is a tight little draw. Will this shaft  amplify my push? Currently in my rogue max ls im playing a HZRDUS yellow 6.0 in 60grams (for reference) 

 

Thanks in advance!

I dont think it will. No GD shaft is really anti-left as theyre all pretty soft to flex and mid bend shafts. The XC just has a slightly softer handle than the others.

[phizzy30]

On 6/4/2024 at 10:44 PM, Jshap1212 said:

So I just got an absolute steal on a 6s XC on eBay. I sold off my sim 2 max a while back which had an IZ in it which was amazing. I traded for an tsr 2 which I thought was going to be the answer that experiment lasted all of two weeks.
 

Anyways to get to the point. After lurking on this topic I read quite a bit that it’s anti left which has me a bit scared, as my miss is a push but my normal shot is a tight little draw. Will this shaft  amplify my push? Currently in my rogue max ls im playing a HZRDUS yellow 6.0 in 60grams (for reference) 

 

Thanks in advance!

XC/UB/VF took a bit of work to turnover but it wasn't overly difficult.  Easiest to turnover are the VR/DI/TP.  I think you'll be fine. 

[phizzy30]

5 hours ago, CTgamer said:

Anyone have experience with the DI or TP in 7X vs 7TX and can compare?

 

I cruise about 110 with driver, maybe up to 113ish full out. 7X DI untipped always felt great in the butt and mid, but too soft in the tip. Thinking about tipping it or moving to 7TX, but don’t want the handle to get too stiff. 
 

It seems like the 7X TP could also be an alternative, with a similar but tighter feel. Figure 7TX in TP would be too much, but if anyone has experience with that too I’d be interested. 
 

For reference, I’ve played GP 7X and found the handle and mid too soft (at least in relation to the stiff tip) but liked the launch and spin. I also liked the 9003/P9003 but they launched a little low. 
 

Much appreciate your help all!

DI even in TX isn't overly stiff in the handle, IMO.  It feels like it gets noticeably stiff in the tip and slightly more so in the mid and handle.  TP seems more stable for me compared to the DI flex for flex.  Still relatively easy to turnover.  Also launches just a touch lower. 

[mizuno player]

6 hours ago, CTgamer said:

Anyone have experience with the DI or TP in 7X vs 7TX and can compare?

 

I cruise about 110 with driver, maybe up to 113ish full out. 7X DI untipped always felt great in the butt and mid, but too soft in the tip. Thinking about tipping it or moving to 7TX, but don’t want the handle to get too stiff. 
 

It seems like the 7X TP could also be an alternative, with a similar but tighter feel. Figure 7TX in TP would be too much, but if anyone has experience with that too I’d be interested. 
 

For reference, I’ve played GP 7X and found the handle and mid too soft (at least in relation to the stiff tip) but liked the launch and spin. I also liked the 9003/P9003 but they launched a little low. 
 

Much appreciate your help all!

According to the GD website the UB is stiffer overall butt to tip. I've played the Di in the past. I don't think the butt is so much stiffer than the Di.  The tip I do feel is much stiffer. 

[CTgamer]

3 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

DI even in TX isn't overly stiff in the handle, IMO.  It feels like it gets noticeably stiff in the tip and slightly more so in the mid and handle.  TP seems more stable for me compared to the DI flex for flex.  Still relatively easy to turnover.  Also launches just a touch lower. 

Appreciate the insight, Phizzy…apparently balance points in the TX shift down a bit too, which probably means more of the extra reinforcement/stiffness is in the tip, which would match your feel. 

 

Have you hit TP in TX? Based on your comment, it seems like the TP 7X sits about in the middle of DI 7X and 7TX, so assume the TP 7TX would be another half step up. 
 

How would you compare TP to Ventus Blue TR btw? The EI profiles seem to be almost identical, with the TP having a little higher butt torque and probably feeling looser without spread tow. 
 

Cheers!

[phizzy30]

21 minutes ago, CTgamer said:

Appreciate the insight, Phizzy…apparently balance points in the TX shift down a bit too, which probably means more of the extra reinforcement/stiffness is in the tip, which would match your feel. 

 

Have you hit TP in TX? Based on your comment, it seems like the TP 7X sits about in the middle of DI 7X and 7TX, so assume the TP 7TX would be another half step up. 
 

How would you compare TP to Ventus Blue TR btw? The EI profiles seem to be almost identical, with the TP having a little higher butt torque and probably feeling looser without spread tow. 
 

Cheers!

Yes, I've tested the TP-7TX.  EI profile is similar, however TR Blue 7TX launches lower and spins just a hair less than the TP.  My miss with both was a hook.  I wouldn't necessarily say that the TR Blue is more stable as a result.  Where they really differ is feel where the TP is ultra smooth and TR Blue has feel but I wouldn't call it smooth. 

[CTgamer]

56 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Yes, I've tested the TP-7TX.  EI profile is similar, however TR Blue 7TX launches lower and spins just a hair less than the TP.  My miss with both was a hook.  I wouldn't necessarily say that the TR Blue is more stable as a result.  Where they really differ is feel where the TP is ultra smooth and TR Blue has feel but I wouldn't call it smooth. 

Funny you mention that…in 6x and 7x (though a little less so), TR Blue felt a little harsh - maybe brittle? - especially in the handle. I don’t think I like the feel of spreadtow, and had the same reaction to TR Black even though I really like that shaft generally. 
 

Would you say the difference between X and TX in TP is similar to DI (ie just a little tighter feel) or something else?

[phizzy30]

13 hours ago, CTgamer said:

Funny you mention that…in 6x and 7x (though a little less so), TR Blue felt a little harsh - maybe brittle? - especially in the handle. I don’t think I like the feel of spreadtow, and had the same reaction to TR Black even though I really like that shaft generally. 
 

Would you say the difference between X and TX in TP is similar to DI (ie just a little tighter feel) or something else?

I use the term anti-left but tighter is a good way to describe it.

[CTgamer]

22 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I use the term anti-left but tighter is a good way to describe it.

Thanks to a heavily deflated Yen, I have a brand new TP 7X coming from Japan for a steal - will update the thread once I’ve had a chance to hit it, thanks!

[JamesG12]

So is the consensus if you like the ball flight of a DI but want lower spin/tighter feel to go with a UB? I tried HD in the same weight/flex as DI and I spin it like crazy. 

[phizzy30]

41 minutes ago, JamesG12 said:

So is the consensus if you like the ball flight of a DI but want lower spin/tighter feel to go with a UB? I tried HD in the same weight/flex as DI and I spin it like crazy. 

UB launches lower than DI.  It's more stable/anti-left as well.  I would say that HD is a tweener between the DI and UB.

[mizuno player]

IMO. UB has less kick than Di.  It also spins less for me as well as launches lower as phizzy stated. For me I was.ablw to go to a 10° head swing hard and fast and just launch it. It's been a great shaft for me. 

[fatk9]

so ive now played

 

in 6s

 

ad di

ad tp

ad gp

ad xc

ad hd

ad ub

ad bb

ad iz.

 

 

I would rate them pretty similar to the website

 

softest to firmest

 

ad iz

ad di

ad hd

ad bb

ad tp

ad gp 

ad ub

ad xc

 

keep in mind launch is not the same as stiffness.

 

ie

 

ad bb is very soft in the butt a quite hard to elevate. so it plays soft if u load the butt alot.

 

I like mid low with some kick so ad tp ad gp ad ub are good.

 

ad tp is high draw ad gp is lower draw some fade ad ub was straight soft fade.

 

cheers

 

[10&8]

So I did a fun little “experiment” this spring. I’ve been playing the TP in 6x for almost 7 years now. Read about all the hype regarding the VF so I decided to order one and put it in my TSR4. It obviously wasn’t the right profile for me, as I was getting high right spinners with it. I think it’s too tip stiff for my swing. My pro then had me try out the AI Smoke TD with the Denali Black 6.5. Straight flat bombs with every shot. Decided to buy it….and as we all know, once it got delivered I couldn’t hit it to save my life. Spent the last 2 months trying to keep it on the golf course. Last round I grabbed my TSR4 with the trusted TP. Hit 14/14 fairways. Safe to say it’s going back in the bag. I honestly think the TP is one of the most underrated shafts of all time. 

Edited June 25, 2024 by 10&8

[OspreyCI]

6 hours ago, 10&8 said:

So I did a fun little “experiment” this spring. I’ve been playing the TP in 6x for almost 7 years now. Read about all the hype regarding the VF so I decided to order one and put it in my TSR4. It obviously wasn’t the right profile for me, as I was getting high right spinners with it. I think it’s too tip stiff for my swing. My pro then had me try out the AI Smoke TD with the Denali Black 6.5. Straight flat bombs with every shot. Decided to buy it….and as we all know, once it got delivered I couldn’t hit it to save my life. Spent the last 2 months trying to keep it on the golf course. Last round I grabbed my TSR4 with the trusted TP. Hit 14/14 fairways. Safe to say it’s going back in the bag. I honestly think the TP is one of the most underrated shafts of all time. 

Good story. I have been fit into the TP four different times and still don’t learn. Really good shaft.