Any scratch guys use 56 as highest lofted wedge?

[mryank]

Been debating this for awhile.  Use a 56 for 99% of shots around the green, and the 60 basically only for bunker shots, but feel like I can get similar results with 56.  The MG3 TW 56 grind is as versatile as I've seen, and feels like opening up the blade has effectively the same playability/purpose as a 60.  Could see the same logic for M/D grind, C grind, etc...

 

Anyone game a versatile 56 + nothing above that?

[Nessism]

A "scratch guy," if they truly deserve the denotation, could play just about any clubs and score well.  That said, very few players on that level wouldn't carry a lob wedge of some sort.  

 

Bottom line, play what you are comfortable with.  It doesn't matter what others use, scratch or otherwise.

[hammergolf]

The best wedge player in the history of the game only used a 56*. Seve 

[rt_charger]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

The best wedge player in the history of the game only used a 56*. Seve 

It's pretty hard to compare wedge play from that era to now. The balls back then spun so much you really didn't need any more stopping power. Combine that with the fact that tour calibre greens would be as firm and fast as your average private course these days, so the 60 would be rather obsolete for someone like him.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a prime Seve could still play with just a 56 today on tour, but even among the very best that would be an extreme outlier.

Edited July 1, 2022 by rt_charger

[phizzy30]

Been as low as 2 cap, played at a D2 school and I've always had a 54* and 58* setup.  All the scratch and + cap guys/gals I play with either use 60* or 64* as their highest loft wedge.  Higher lofted wedges are necessary on hard and fast greens or pins that are tucked in corners IMO. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by phizzy30

[Pastit]

5 hours ago, mryank said:

Been debating this for awhile.  Use a 56 for 99% of shots around the green, and the 60 basically only for bunker shots, but feel like I can get similar results with 56.  The MG3 TW 56 grind is as versatile as I've seen, and feels like opening up the blade has effectively the same playability/purpose as a 60.  Could see the same logic for M/D grind, C grind, etc...

 

Anyone game a versatile 56 + nothing above that?

Only Seve. The poster just above is spot on. Whilst not quite scratch at the time, I played Royal Lytham one day after the Ladies British Open. The one where Michelle Wie was penalised for touching a loose impediment with her club head in a bunker.  The 17th Green had been cut so short that the grass looked dead. It was impossible to hold a green except with a 60D;  even then, not hole high. I had to play the old blue-covered Callaway soft ball. 

[jomatty]

There are plenty of tour players that use a 58 as their highest lofted wedge so it is difficult for me to believe that you need more than that to play on fast greens.

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, mryank said:

Been debating this for awhile.  Use a 56 for 99% of shots around the green, and the 60 basically only for bunker shots, but feel like I can get similar results with 56.  The MG3 TW 56 grind is as versatile as I've seen, and feels like opening up the blade has effectively the same playability/purpose as a 60.  Could see the same logic for M/D grind, C grind, etc...

 

Anyone game a versatile 56 + nothing above that?

What it comes down to nuts and bolts wise is what you feel confortable doing for your game. A lot of us old timers got pretty versitile with the 56 because that was all we had. When they came out with 60* wedges I carried one too. For a while I went without a 60 because a friend of mine said I did not practice or play enough at that time to play a 60. I put it back in about a month ago after realizing my hands and coordination is not what it once was and I could not manulipulate the 56 like I once did. I have different grinds between the 56 and 60 and sometimes switch out the 60 itself for another one if the course dictates such. Since I carry a 7&9 woods now on certain courses I may pull out the 4 iron ( which I can still hit) and carry 4 wedges. Again what the course dictates for my play. I do like the being verisitile part of one "workhorse" wedge. I just can not do it like I once did. Like I said no right or wrong way here do what you have confidence in. IMHO if you see a guy with only 2 wedges in his bag he is more than likely one heck of a wedge player

[llamont]

 

My good friend carried a 56* wedge as his highest lofted club. He was close to scratch/passed the PAT/and he was in the PGA apprentice program at one point. Younger guy too…. He learned the game from old timers who didn’t encourage the lob wedge.  

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, jomatty said:

There are plenty of tour players that use a 58 as their highest lofted wedge so it is difficult for me to believe that you need more than that to play on fast greens.

 

I wonder what percentage of the tour pro wedges with 58 stamped on them are genuinely 58 degrees, and how many are bent a degree or two weak for extra bounce because they want more bounce than the standard bounce on the 60.

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, llamont said:

 

My good friend carried a 56* wedge as his highest lofted club. He was close to scratch/passed the PAT/and he was in the PGA apprentice program at one point. Younger guy too…. He learned the game from old timers who didn’t encourage the lob wedge.  

LOL us old timers before the 80s did not know a wedge above 56* except for a Macgregor wedge called a Flipper. Our esteemed fellow WRXer Mr Flipper is an expert on those. They are extremely rare. In fact I saw my first one in the flesh just a few weeks ago. With some practice anyone could hit it and by design it is very versitile. I did not see anything contrary to current rules either. I know why the companies would not copy it today it would eliminate some people buying and carrying several wedges. I tried to buy that one the guy who has it is a retired Pro and College Golf coach and I work with him in Church in the A/V department and he is somewhat a collector and knows exactly what he has.

[naval2006]

One of my regular buddies plays to a 2 and he was scratch for years and years. He uses an old Titleist exploder from when he was in his twenties. That’s his only wedge. He’s 58 now and he uses his pw most of the times. Old school, old clubs, old scratch pedigree. He’s a short game wizard too. 

[Aviador Naval]

Tom Watson had 56 as his highest loft in the 2009 Open.

 

Seems the question to ask is what club would add more utility to your bag if you pulled the 60?  My two highest loft wedges only have two degrees difference but dramatically different soles.  I could easily play with one (including the 56 deg lofted one) but don’t need anything else at the longer end.

[BIG STU]

31 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I wonder what percentage of the tour pro wedges with 58 stamped on them are genuinely 58 degrees, and how many are bent a degree or two weak for extra bounce because they want more bounce than the standard bounce on the 60.

Never judge a book by its cover---- Those tour van guys have those wedges tuned exactly to the specs that work for that paticular player--- I have a set of 252 Vokeys that once belonged to Dicky Pride----- They are marked 54 and 58 but they are far from that and the bounce numbers do not conciede with what is stamped on them. I can not remember the exact specs but have them in one of my notebooks

[BIG STU]

4 minutes ago, Aviador Naval said:

Tom Watson had 56 as his highest loft in the 2009 Open.

 

Seems the question to ask is what club would add more utility to your bag if you pulled the 60?  My two highest loft wedges only have two degrees difference but dramatically different soles.  I could easily play with one (including the 56 deg lofted one) but don’t need anything else at the longer end.

IMHO you got it different bounces and in my case different sole grinds. My 60 I ground myself and is a copy of a Scratch JLM/EGG grind. I had a Scratch 60 I got used and loved it. It was half worn out when I got it and I finished it off. I have plenty of 588s so why not I did it. 

[EagleAteBirdie]

My go to club around the green is a 54*.  It is important to factor in how the club is played.  My most lofted club is 58* but I VERY rarely play it square.  The clubface is always open with more loft added because this feels more comfortable to me than playing a more lofted club square. 

[Fuscinator]

Are you asking because you want to swap out the 60° to add a club at the other end of the bag, or are you asking because you just can't trust yourself with a lob wedge? 

[iknowbagu]

I've been scratch or better since I was 16 and have played with some really, really good players over the years, some of which are on TV now. I could probably count the number of sticks that don't carry a 58+ on one hand. As Charger alluded to above, courses are just different these days. Forget just private clubs, there are county courses today that run faster than tour courses from the 70s, 80s and 90s.

[Billfitz]

6 hours ago, hammergolf said:

The best wedge player in the history of the game only used a 56*. Seve 

Fans of Phil, if there are any remaining, would disagree. Phil uses a 60. That said, where playing out of the sand is concerned bounce matters more than loft, and 60s tend to not have as much bounce as 56s or 58s. Most pros will use a 56 or 58 from the bunker, for that reason, opening up the face to deliver higher effective loft. Where they primarily will use a 60 is off the fairway, where you generally don't want a lot of bounce. 

[cav5]

i love this topic and have so many barely used wedges around the house because of it. i'll play with 16-17 clubs a lot of times just to experiment.

 

most recently i'm in favor of a higher bounce 57* being my main scoring club from pretty much 100 yards an in. obviously there are some outliers.

 

the full soled 57* keeps it dummy proof for the most part and has enough loft to hit floaty ones and low drivers too and also in crappy lies.

 

i then carry a 61 primarily for bunkers, nifty up and downs, tight greenside lies etc..

Edited July 1, 2022 by cav5

[BIG STU]

39 minutes ago, iknowbagu said:

I've been scratch or better since I was 16 and have played with some really, really good players over the years, some of which are on TV now. I could probably count the number of sticks that don't carry a 58+ on one hand. As Charger alluded to above, courses are just different these days. Forget just private clubs, there are county courses today that run faster than tour courses from the 70s, 80s and 90s.

Absolutely agronomy has changed and so has golf course equipment and there are more variety of hybrid grasses more than ever

Edited July 1, 2022 by BIG STU

[getitdaily]

If you practice a bunch with that 56 and are really good at ironing the face then rock on. I just can't imagine a scratch not carrying a 60. A few reasons

 

- what is going in the bag instead of the 60 and what benefit is gained vs a 60?

- a scratch golfer is probably playing some level of competitive golf and likely facing tournaments with greens that run quicker than normal courses.

- not having a 60 takes a degree of aggressiveness out of the longer game. Those tucked and short sided pins get a bit more caution.

 

But I really go back to my 1st point. Let's assume you go 

 

Driver

3w

One of: 5w/hybrid/utility iron (18-20 degree range)

4i (modern 3i - 22ish loft)

5i-pw (pw loft 46-48)

 

With pw then you have room to go 50-52 gap wedge and then 56.  That's 13 clubs including putter. So what else is going in the bag? How often are you using that extra club? What benefit would it provide over the versatility of the 60? 

 

I just don't see the benefit of not having a 58-60.

 

I personally go 46-50-54-60. 

 

To me, for a scratch or better, the question shouldn't be "do I carry a 60". The question should be "what bounce and grind are best in a 60, for me".

Edited July 1, 2022 by getitdaily

[DREWZER300]

I carry a 60 but mostly use it in very specefic scenarios.   Mostly short sided shots around the green or out of the bunker.   Very rarely do I use it while taking a full swing.   I tend to use my 54 mostly and manipulate the trajectory/loft by opening the face.  

[llewol007]

Im not scratch and I only play a 56. I’ve learned to be more versatile with my yardages with my PW and my Sandwedge now has the grind that allow me to open it up to about a 62 without the bounce being an issue.

[OnTheBag]

3 hours ago, llamont said:

 

My good friend carried a 56* wedge as his highest lofted club. He was close to scratch/passed the PAT/and he was in the PGA apprentice program at one point. Younger guy too…. He learned the game from old timers who didn’t encourage the lob wedge.  

My generation never had a 60° option, so we learned to play without it.  I believe the highest lofted wedge that I've ever carried was 58° (Eye 2 L wedge).  Today, I carry a 56 for most rounds but have a BH Equalizer II 58 in Texas Grind that gets a lot of use in the summer in dry conditions.  

 

As @BIG STU and some others have said, real players can get around the course with anything.  Play what you are comfortable with, not because it's what someone else plays.  

 

4 hours ago, rt_charger said:

It's pretty hard to compare wedge play from that era to now. The balls back then spun so much you really didn't need any more stopping power. Combine that with the fact that tour calibre greens would be as firm and fast as your average private course these days, so the 60 would be rather obsolete for someone like him.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a prime Seve could still play with just a 56 today on tour, but even among the very best that would be an extreme outlier.

 

I understand your point, but I was bagging at an event where Seve hit a flop shot with an 8i.  Wouldn't have believed it, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.  He was a magician around the greens, mostly due to playing as a kid with only 5 or 6 clubs in his bag.  Fans today think Mickelson was great and he is, but Seve was in a different league inside of 50 yards.

[jomatty]

2 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I wonder what percentage of the tour pro wedges with 58 stamped on them are genuinely 58 degrees, and how many are bent a degree or two weak for extra bounce because they want more bounce than the standard bounce on the 60.

That’s definitely possible although I would think they would mostly want to try to knock a little offset out of it more than add bounce since so many of the L wedges are low bounce but I definitely could be wrong.  And many of them could be bending them to more than 58.  

Personally I don’t think there is much you can’t do with a 58 that you can with a 60.  I play a 60 but it has more to do with liking my 56 and liking to play some shots with a slightly square face.  When I used a 58 with low bounce I didn’t have any issue laying it almost completely flat, the same as a 60.

[iknowbagu]

54 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

Fans today think Mickelson was great and he is, but Seve was in a different league inside of 50 yards.

 

Seve > Phil and it's not close

[Pilk]

Not a scratch but played to a 4 for a long stretch (not so much lately).  I've backed down to a 56 and find my decision making is simpler and more predictable but there are times when a 60 would give me options like short sided bunkers, downhill stuff etc.  The mental battle is real.   When I did carry the 60 it could get me in trouble so I tended to ignore it.

 

Now I'm down to 13 clubs.  I'm going to try carrying a mini-driver for tighter holes.  I lose more strokes with my driver on our tight course, so maybe a second option off the tee might be next.  But this is Golfwrx....things change LOL.  

 

  

 

  

[Billfitz]

2 hours ago, DREWZER300 said:

I carry a 60 but mostly use it in very specefic scenarios.   Mostly short sided shots around the green or out of the bunker.   Very rarely do I use it while taking a full swing. 

Different strokes. I usually use my 60 for full shots. I only use it out of the sand when I've got no green to work with.

[cgasucks]

1 hour ago, iknowbagu said:

 

Seve > Phil and it's not close

 

Name me another player that grew up learning the game making all kinds of shots with only a 3 iron on the beaches of Spain.