Same Lie Angle for all Irons?

[sniper]

Is anyone using irons with all of the same lie angle?  Seems like I’m hearing more about this now. I’m thinking about doing some testing with a Sharpie line on the ball to determine if it might be warrant further experimenting. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by sniper

[bnperrone]

For a single-length set, sure.

[sniper]

8 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

For a single-length set, sure.

Nope for normal length.  
 

Theory is it could be good for anyone that misses long irons right and short irons left.  I don’t really miss long irons right but can miss short irons left. 

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, sniper said:

Nope for normal length.  
 

Theory is it could be good for anyone that misses long irons right and short irons left.  I don’t really miss long irons right but can miss short irons left. 

No that cant be good for anyone, and the reason is simple

For ball flight (tilt on the balls spin axis), a face angle thats 1.0* closed to path, cause a tilt of -3.0*
So does a lie angle 1.0* upright vs neutral

Most sets today is made with a lie angle progression of about 0.5* from club to club, so if we started at the middle, and made longer clubs more upright and equal to the MID club, the same the other way, and make the short end more flat, there is only one way the player can hit a strait shot now, and we can actually make a chart for that. (face angle compensation)

Club - Lie change - FA change to compensate for a strait shot

#3 - 1.5* up-right = 1.5* more open face angle
#4 - 1.0* up-right = 1.0* more open face angle
#5 - 0.5* up-right = 0.5* more open face angle
#6 - standard - 0 change to face angle
#7 - 0.5* flat = 0.5* more closed face angle
#8 - 1.0* flat = 1.0* more closed face angle
#9 - 1.5* flat = 1.5* more closed face angle

Nobody wants a set that plays like this, you have no chance to get sideways dispersion good.

Use the ballmarker/sharpie test, and set lie angles correct.
The parameter ALL players on all levels struggles with is to get face angle right at impact, this idea makes is completely impossible, PLUS, wrong lie angle has the potential to move impact away from the center of the face = loss of ball speed/distance, launch and spin.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Trippels]

23 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

No that cant be good for anyone, and the reason is simple

For ball flight (tilt on the balls spin axis), a face angle thats 1.0* closed to path, cause a tilt of -3.0*
So does a lie angle 1.0* upright vs neutral

Most sets today is made with a lie angle progression of about 0.5* from club to club, so if we started at the middle, and made longer clubs more upright and equal to the MID club, the same the other way, and make the short end more flat, there is only one way the player can hit a strait shot now, and we can actually make a chart for that. (face angle compensation)

Club - Lie change - FA change to compensate for a strait shot

#3 - 1.5* up-right = 1.5* more open face angle
#4 - 1.0* up-right = 1.0* more open face angle
#5 - 0.5* up-right = 0.5* more open face angle
#6 - standard - 0 change to face angle
#7 - 0.5* flat = 0.5* more closed face angle
#8 - 1.0* flat = 1.0* more closed face angle
#9 - 1.5* flat = 1.5* more closed face angle

Nobody wants a set that plays like this, you have no chance to get sideways dispersion good.

Use the ballmarker/sharpie test, and set lie angles correct.
The parameter ALL players on all levels struggles with is to get face angle right at impact, this idea makes is completely impossible, PLUS, wrong lie angle has the potential to move impact away from the center of the face = loss of ball speed/distance, launch and spin.

 

Haven't tried same lie angle on all clubs and know little personally, but have seen the idea being supported by some guys from TXG, who supposedly are also very experienced with fitting.

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Trippels said:

Haven't tried same lie angle on all clubs and know little personally, but have seen the idea being supported by some guys from TXG, who supposedly are also very experienced with fitting.

Lie angles is a product of hand position at impact, and the heads toe drop combined.
Im getting rusty now, so i cant recall when trends changed (years models), but if we move a little back in time to 1998 and Titleist 981 DCI (last model), we see the OLD lie angle slope of 1.0* pr club, of 1.0* pr 0.5" of club from #1 to #4, then it changes to 0.5* pr club. We also have sets where lie angle progression was 0.75* between clubs, while todays norm is 0.5* pr club.

All iron sets should be tweaked in the hands of the player. One or more irons might need a different loft and lie angle than "a strait slope" say it should have, thats normal, and its not unusual to use another slope than standard to tweak for trends. (most often more than 0.5* and against 0.75*), BUT its NOT a good idea to use lie angles as ban aid for a face closure issues, so i really think we should check and tune in each iron to play with lie angles as neutral as possible at impact, they should not be misused to cover another issue, since that might introduce other issues like lower ratio of pure impact, lack of ball speed, launch and spin changes, and by that distance and dispersion problems.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[sniper]

Great info and explanation from @Howard_Jones…thank you!

 

Like @Trippels I heard this from TXG guys and someone else on Instagram recently. Can’t remember who on Instagram. I believe TXG actually said Ping referred to this as the rainbow color code because the colors changed to match the lie angle. 
 

I could have easily misunderstood the concept as well. 

[sshadow2]

@sniper

 

I came to the same conclusion.

 

They said each iron in a set should be tested and it's possible for the longer irons to be more upright while the lower irons remain flatter. I don't remember them necessarily saying all irons are the same lie angle though.

[Aviador Naval]

It is quite common to have long irons SLIGHTLY more upright and short irons/wedges SLIGHTLY flatter when compared to the common OEM slope progression laid out by Howard above - but, the idea that anyone would recommend identical through the entire set seems way off.

 

Whiteboard marker test is the simplest thing going to remove guess work.

 

 

[ARL67]

FYI I play a very reduced length set ( heads are current T200 )

My 9-LW are built to 36.0” ungripped.

I then go in 1/8” increments with my 5i at 36.5” ungripped.

All Lie Angles are 62*.

 

My personal historic experiences with traditional sets are that longer irons want to go right.  Because my set has only 1/2” of length increase from LW-5

, being off a 1/4* Lie Angle is inconsequential. 

[sniper]

1 hour ago, sshadow2 said:

@sniper

 

I came to the same conclusion.

 

They said each iron in a set should be tested and it's possible for the longer irons to be more upright while the lower irons remain flatter. I don't remember them necessarily saying all irons are the same lie angle though.

Yes…After reading @Howard_Jones reply I started questioning myself as to whether it was all the same lie angle or more upright in long irons and flatter in the short irons like you stated.  
 

Obviously I should focus more on TXG and less on work. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by sniper

[sniper]

Okay I went back to the TXG chat from Monday. The example is someone that comes over the top could miss short irons left and long irons right. They did say it is possible to end up with a lie angle of 62 (example) for all irons. 
 

More importantly they said to adjust each iron to you and not follow a set progression. 

[Trippels]

19 minutes ago, sniper said:

Yes…After reading @Howard_Jones reply I started questioning myself as to whether it was all the same lie angle or more upright in long irons and flatter in the short irons like you stated.  
 

Obviously I should focus more on TXG and less on work. 

They definitely said all the same lie angle. Which of course essentiay means long irons 1-2 degrees upright, short irons 1-2 degrees flat. So for example you make all irons and wedges the same lie as your 6 iron.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Trippels
Just saw you wrote that now

[sshadow2]

23 minutes ago, sniper said:

Okay I went back to the TXG chat from Monday. The example is someone that comes over the top could miss short irons left and long irons right. They did say it is possible to end up with a lie angle of 62 (example) for all irons. 
 

More importantly they said to adjust each iron to you and not follow a set progression. 

I did my own personal testing based on this video today. I have 2 sets of irons. One I was fit 2* upright while the other are stock standard (the ones in my sig).

 

I was trying to see if I cut the ball more in the longer irons with the standard set. I found it to be the opposite. Maybe I'm inclined to turn the club over more in the standard lie...who knows.

 

But I do experience the rights in the longer irons, and the lefts in the lower iron with the upright set. However, I find it to be a ball position issue. In short, for me and to my eye, I need to move the ball back less in the lower irons, and less forward in the long irons.

 

I also learned that I like standard lie better now...so there's that.

Edited July 21, 2022 by sshadow2

[Cactus Jack]

Ryan Barath mentioned the Ping Rainbow set on his Instagram Q&A. My impression was you start with the 6 iron and move in .5* increments. For example a 2 iron would be 2* upright and PW would be 2* flat. I most like misunderstood.