LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[TiScape]

11 hours ago, bcjim said:

I guess you're the last guy standing.  Where have cactus and bighitterllama gone? 

The argument that less golf is better is simply without merit. From a fan or business pov.

 

You are welcome to not watch any events you don't want to watch.  Fewer events will not mean anyone plays less.  They'll just play somewhere else.

Oh man, pour some out for the big llama… A true legend in the LIV shill game. 
 

 

[Mr.Cleeks]

22 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

 

This is hilarious. The only thing Phil did was try to bankrupt and destroy the PGAT.

 

*He didn't succeed at either. 

 

The PGAT has always had two tier events, be it invitational, elevated, signature, etc...

 

Tournament increases came from the $7B media rights deal and the added revenue from SSG.

 

The board consists of 6player Directors and 6 independent Directors. IMO that's not a good thing because players vote in their own best interest, not the tour's.

 

~Phil was right about nothing. Keep in mind that Phil was recruiting players for the Saudi Tour while still playing on the PGAT , shameful.   IMO

• The invitationals were different from the sig events. The sig events were formed as a result of the "Delaware meeting" in 2022.
• Why did the purse increase not happened pre-liv? The new rights deal went into effect in 2022. Do you actually think these guys would be playing in $20M fields and getting equity in the tour without liv 

[Danielson]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

• The invitationals were different from the sig events. The sig events were formed as a result of the "Delaware meeting" in 2022.
• Why did the purse increase not happened pre-liv? The new rights deal went into effect in 2022. Do you actually think these guys would be playing in $20M fields and getting equity in the tour without liv 

 

I think the purses would have definitely gone up, but I think there's no way they institute all the stuff they did for the lower end players (min yearly winnings, stipends, etc). 

 

I also think it's worth mentioning that the PGA Tour offers an allegedly great retirement plan, and survived through covid on the money that Phil was upset they weren't paying out. I'm not saying that they're angels, but it does seem like they have some responsible money managers somewhere in the organization that were/are keeping the tour healthy and not running things too close to the edge. 

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I'm not saying Phil was right on everything, that'd be giving him too much credit.  But the comments in that interview did foreshadow a lot of the changes that have gone into effect on the tour:

• This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates. 
• They use the top guys to make their own situation better, but the top guys don’t have a say. 
• Players are a minority on the all-powerful PGA Tour Policy Board, holding only four of the nine seats.

Looking at these one by one:

• The PGAT structure is way different then it was 3 years. Their were no signature events, every week on tour was the same. The tour made that change within months of LIV's formation.
• The top guys now have equity in the PGAT. Pretty self-explanatory
• Finally PGAT players are a majority on the policy board. 

If you get past his crazy rhetoric it's insane how the PGAT implemented a lot of what Phil was saying 3 years ago.

 

Yes, that’s mostly right but I was talking about the billions of digital media rights that Phil thinks the PGA Tour is sitting on

[Mr.Cleeks]

25 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

I think the purses would have definitely gone up, but I think there's no way they institute all the stuff they did for the lower end players (min yearly winnings, stipends, etc). 

 

I also think it's worth mentioning that the PGA Tour offers an allegedly great retirement plan, and survived through covid on the money that Phil was upset they weren't paying out. I'm not saying that they're angels, but it does seem like they have some responsible money managers somewhere in the organization that were/are keeping the tour healthy and not running things too close to the edge. 

I’m not endorsing what Phil said and all of the stuff he said about the tour hoarding money is bs. But none of the current changes would’ve happened without LIV. It would’ve been status quo business as usual. Even Rory said the purse jump wouldn’t have happened without liv

[Mr.Cleeks]

3 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Yes, that’s mostly right but I was talking about the billions of digital media rights that Phil thinks the PGA Tour is sitting on

The PGAT does receive $700M annually from media rights partners but I highly doubt they are hoarding that money. Their was a substantial jump from 2021 to 2022 in prize money when the new media rights deal went into effect. 

[Holy Moses]

26 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

The PGAT does receive $700M annually from media rights partners but I highly doubt they are hoarding that money. Their was a substantial jump from 2021 to 2022 in prize money when the new media rights deal went into effect. 

NFTs is what Phil meant

[Titleist99]

31 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

The PGAT does receive $700M annually from media rights partners but I highly doubt they are hoarding that money. Their was a substantial jump from 2021 to 2022 in prize money when the new media rights deal went into effect. 

Plus the $2B new international media rights deal.

[Mr.Cleeks]

10 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

NFTs is what Phil meant

Anyone who's ever invested knew NFTs would crash. Phil is a godawful investor and I just filed that away amongst the other nonsense Phil spews

[bscinstnct]

20 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Plus the $2B new international media rights deal.

12B….over 12 years 

 

[bekgolf]

7 hours ago, TiScape said:

Oh man, pour some out for the big llama… A true legend in the LIV shill game. 
 

 

 

The big hitter had a sense of humor.

[munichop]

Before LIV pga tour players could play the European tour as an alternative. Once another choice was available AND name players were choosing it the pga tour offered more money to those who stayed.  Whether any of it is sustainable for a long time is another question. 

[Holy Moses]

9 minutes ago, munichop said:

Before LIV pga tour players could play the European tour as an alternative. Once another choice was available AND name players were choosing it the pga tour offered more money to those who stayed.  Whether any of it is sustainable for a long time is another question. 

The Open Championship isn’t increasing prize money for the first time since 2012. The amount of money that some pro golfers are getting right now is a little out of control and I think it slows down soon. What LIV does with their next contracts will be telling.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

The Open Championship isn’t increasing prize money for the first time since 2012. The amount of money that some pro golfers are getting right now is a little out of control and I think it slows down soon. What LIV does with their next contracts will be telling.

If they tell!

[leezer99]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

If they tell!

If LIV wanted to be more like F1 then they'd publish the contract amounts. Every other sport in the world publishes their contract details, why not golf?

 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

If LIV wanted to be more like F1 then they'd publish the contract amounts. Every other sport in the world publishes their contract details, why not golf?

 

So they aren’t embarrassed

[Titleist99]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

If LIV wanted to be more like F1 then they'd publish the contract amounts. Every other sport in the world publishes their contract details, why not golf?

 

Yep, should be big news when they sign someone. Not some secret backroom deal.🤣

[CDM]

On 7/14/2025 at 9:37 PM, bcjim said:

I guess you're the last guy standing.  Where have cactus and bighitterllama gone? 

The argument that less golf is better is simply without merit. From a fan or business pov.

 

You are welcome to not watch any events you don't want to watch.  Fewer events will not mean anyone plays less.  They'll just play somewhere else.

 

True and as noted I am free to watch what I want so I do.    Looking forward to the Open. Favorite major. *Well tie with Masters. 

 

The "last guy standing" maybe you are right about the other two LOL 

 

Wonder about viewership / covid.  The decline that is.   Last year I thnk was more decline then this year? Maybe / Maybe not?

 

I was sure it was over the divide in golf plus all the players complaining about money. Now I think we are starting to see some of the COVID golfers going away(...YES...!!!)  

 

Things noticed this year so far: 

Public golf side:  Have 3 friends that got addicted to golf (playing / watching) during covid.  Key point they got to work "remote"...!  The companies they work for ended remote work last year and golf on a weekend as all have small kids.  All said they dont have time to play or watch golf now as weekends are "family time". One went from 73 rounds 3 years ago to 4 rounds this year.  🤣

 

Private side: I know 4 work associates that joined clubs during covid.  2 have already left the clubs. They all note aspects but they also dont play much at all now for the same reason...they can not work remote and have small kids.  Our club has a wait list over 100 plus right now.   The last two years we have had 3 to 5 members drop out.  When asked why all site family/work aspects. If you look though they all joined during the Covid boom.  No issues for the club as the new members are joining at 3.5x the rate now....thanks to the covid. 

 

Be interesting to see how it goes over the next 12 months. 

[CDM]

22 hours ago, munichop said:

Before LIV pga tour players could play the European tour as an alternative. Once another choice was available AND name players were choosing it the pga tour offered more money to those who stayed.  Whether any of it is sustainable for a long time is another question. 

 

Not that simple. 100% the EURO Tour would let them play but the PGAT contract and still is the same today, it is very very pin point on this. It as a benefit and for sure now as the PGAT does own a decent percentage of the Euro tour now. 

 

A player on the PGAT has to request release to play in a Euro Tour event or any event that is not a PGAT sponsored or co sanctioned event. The PGAT either grants th release or does not. There are cases they ahve not. Players know this when they sign the contract with the PGAT so nothing new.

 

Noting it as they can not just could not just go play on the Euro tour freely. 

 

*DJ was one who was frustreated on this right before he went to LIV.  Jay and team said yes to a release DJ requestd but PGAT stated only if DJ agreed to play 2 more events on the PGAT would let him play in a none PGAT event.  He did it agree, but IMHO this is were I think he decided to go to LIV. Same time it lined up when he said he wants to be done playing golf around 40 and interestingly that lines up with his LIV contract.   I would be surprised if he keeps playing much if at all once his LIV contract ends. 

Edited July 16 by CDM

[leezer99]

13 hours ago, CDM said:

 

Not that simple. 100% the EURO Tour would let them play but the PGAT contract and still is the same today, it is very very pin point on this. It as a benefit and for sure now as the PGAT does own a decent percentage of the Euro tour now. 

 

A player on the PGAT has to request release to play in a Euro Tour event or any event that is not a PGAT sponsored or co sanctioned event. The PGAT either grants th release or does not. There are cases they ahve not. Players know this when they sign the contract with the PGAT so nothing new.

 

Noting it as they can not just could not just go play on the Euro tour freely. 

 

*DJ was one who was frustreated on this right before he went to LIV.  Jay and team said yes to a release DJ requestd but PGAT stated only if DJ agreed to play 2 more events on the PGAT would let him play in a none PGAT event.  He did it agree, but IMHO this is were I think he decided to go to LIV. Same time it lined up when he said he wants to be done playing golf around 40 and interestingly that lines up with his LIV contract.   I would be surprised if he keeps playing much if at all once his LIV contract ends. 

Will we get Instagram retirement posts from LIV? 

 

[chollier986]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

Will we get Instagram retirement posts from LIV? 

 

AI DJ

[Shilgy]

On 7/16/2025 at 2:39 PM, CDM said:

 

Not that simple. 100% the EURO Tour would let them play but the PGAT contract and still is the same today, it is very very pin point on this. It as a benefit and for sure now as the PGAT does own a decent percentage of the Euro tour now. 

 

A player on the PGAT has to request release to play in a Euro Tour event or any event that is not a PGAT sponsored or co sanctioned event. The PGAT either grants th release or does not. There are cases they ahve not. Players know this when they sign the contract with the PGAT so nothing new.

 

Noting it as they can not just could not just go play on the Euro tour freely. 

 

*DJ was one who was frustreated on this right before he went to LIV.  Jay and team said yes to a release DJ requestd but PGAT stated only if DJ agreed to play 2 more events on the PGAT would let him play in a none PGAT event.  He did it agree, but IMHO this is were I think he decided to go to LIV. Same time it lined up when he said he wants to be done playing golf around 40 and interestingly that lines up with his LIV contract.   I would be surprised if he keeps playing much if at all once his LIV contract ends. 

If he can maintain his current pace at The Open he’ll have a Grand Slam of cuts missed this year.  
 

He’s already retired…just hasn’t announced it yet.

[ronsc1985]

On 7/16/2025 at 9:16 AM, leezer99 said:

If LIV wanted to be more like F1 then they'd publish the contract amounts. Every other sport in the world publishes their contract details, why not golf?

 

Silly comparison. Most if not all F1 teams are or are part of publicly owned corporations. 

[bscinstnct]

 🤔 

 

 

[leezer99]

17 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 🤔 

 

 

Cam Smith rockin' out!

[grm24]

Joaquin Niemann (aka the best player in the world) predictably spits the bit in yet another major tournament. Just another toothless exhibition tour paper tiger. 

Edited July 19 by grm24

[Pops99]

22 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Joaquin Niemann (aka the best player in the world) predictably spits the bit in yet another major tournament. Just another toothless exhibition tour paper tiger. 

The LIV stans will say the majors don't matter that much but we know if their guys were all in the top 10 we wouldn't hear the end of it.

 

Pretty pathetic showing at another major so far by the exhibition tour guys. 

[grm24]

9 minutes ago, Pops99 said:

Pretty pathetic showing at another major so far by the exhibition tour guys. 

No kidding. So predictable. Same as death and taxes.

[WesternRacing]

14 hours ago, grm24 said:

Joaquin Niemann (aka the best player in the world) predictably spits the bit in yet another major tournament. Just another toothless exhibition tour paper tiger. 

 

Dude the Majors DON’T matter.  Four exhibition wins > Major win.

 

 

Edited July 19 by WesternRacing

[Mr.Cleeks]

17 hours ago, Pops99 said:

The LIV stans will say the majors don't matter that much but we know if their guys were all in the top 10 we wouldn't hear the end of it.

 

Pretty pathetic showing at another major so far by the exhibition tour guys. 

They’ll be completely shutout this year. Active liv players have only won 3 of the 14 majors played since LIV’s formation.