LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[fowlerscousin]

13 minutes ago, bcjim said:

I predict liv will announce they are folding up shop on Dec 1, 2027

 

Post you guess in the comments below.

 

 

Ya, the walls are closing in, hes surrounded, just 2 more weeks

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, Danielson said:

 

The PR 180 he's done since leaving for LIV is incredible to me. I checked out one of his Youtube videos yesterday and I can't believe anyone thinks he's genuine at all, but I guess it doesn't even matter if he's playing a character since he's still been entertaining. 

 

[StoutKing]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Disagree. PIF is an endless money pit and they have 0 reason to shut it down. 

The main reason would be embarrassment.  They got taken advantage of by Norman and a bunch of senior golfers.  Otherwise I agree.  They could keep hosting these boring events forever.

[Holy Moses]

21 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Disagree. PIF is an endless money pit and they have 0 reason to shut it down. 

If the WNBA can lose a $100,000 a day and still keep running the league, why can’t LIV lose $2.7 million a day? LIV just needs their own Caitlyn Clark.

[betarhoalphadelta]

7 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

The main reason would be embarrassment.  They got taken advantage of by Norman and a bunch of senior golfers.  Otherwise I agree.  They could keep hosting these boring events forever.

 

To me it's that the PIF needed an exit strategy.

 

It's embarrassing to run a failed, useless, unwatched tour. It's more embarrassing to shut it down in disgrace with nothing to show for it. So keeping it running as long as possible to try to find a way to shut it down without admitting defeat is key. 

 

Which is why I think PIF really wanted the merger. But they wanted a merger that they could call a "victory", which would likely entail YAR having a prominent powerful position in the new org, some sort of sop where some of the LIV tour events are rolled into the PGAT schedule while still maintaining international events (incl. annual events in SA), some sop to the "team" thing, etc.

 

They couldn't stomach shutting down LIV just to be a silent partner putting money into PGATE, and I think that's pretty much what they were being offered. 

 

So now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. LIV took their shot and missed. The contracts will be coming up for renewal and LIV can afford to--but would be stupid to--renew them for certain players. If they don't, players will leave LIV en masse once their contracts are up, and they're NOT going to get a steady stream of stars to replace them. So it comes down to keeping a failed tour, with "nobody" players, on display, where everyone will see it 14 times a year, point and laugh... Or it comes down to shutting it down which is a very public admission of defeat. One hits the pocketbook, the other hits the ego. Which one will rule the decision-making?

 

Maybe there's another option I'm not considering?

[fowlerscousin]

Patrick reed is still making a strong case for the ryder cup

[TiScape]

11 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

If the WNBA can lose a $100,000 a day and still keep running the league, why can’t LIV lose $2.7 million a day? LIV just needs their own Caitlyn Clark.

As hard as ESPN tries. Seems to me the WNBA’s 15 min is already up 🫤

[Titleist99]

21 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

To me it's that the PIF needed an exit strategy.

 

It's embarrassing to run a failed, useless, unwatched tour. It's more embarrassing to shut it down in disgrace with nothing to show for it. So keeping it running as long as possible to try to find a way to shut it down without admitting defeat is key. 

 

Which is why I think PIF really wanted the merger. But they wanted a merger that they could call a "victory", which would likely entail YAR having a prominent powerful position in the new org, some sort of sop where some of the LIV tour events are rolled into the PGAT schedule while still maintaining international events (incl. annual events in SA), some sop to the "team" thing, etc.

 

They couldn't stomach shutting down LIV just to be a silent partner putting money into PGATE, and I think that's pretty much what they were being offered. 

 

So now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. LIV took their shot and missed. The contracts will be coming up for renewal and LIV can afford to--but would be stupid to--renew them for certain players. If they don't, players will leave LIV en masse once their contracts are up, and they're NOT going to get a steady stream of stars to replace them. So it comes down to keeping a failed tour, with "nobody" players, on display, where everyone will see it 14 times a year, point and laugh... Or it comes down to shutting it down which is a very public admission of defeat. One hits the pocketbook, the other hits the ego. Which one will rule the decision-making?

 

Maybe there's another option I'm not considering?

I think that most of the players will stay just to play for the larger purses with little to no competition. The players don't have many options at their disposal.

 

IMo

[Holy Moses]

28 minutes ago, TiScape said:

As hard as ESPN tries. Seems to me the WNBA’s 15 min is already up 🫤

Due to Clark, ratings are way up and the WNBA is renegotiating their TV deal since it is due

[TiScape]

4 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Due to Clark, ratings are way up and the WNBA is renegotiating their TV deal since it is due

Oh really. Good for them. 
 

*WRXers are ratings experts. Perhaps one of our esteemed members will produce the #s for us! lol 

 

**my 3min search 👀 found this! 😂 

Edited July 25 by TiScape

[TiScape]

They shoulda incorporated Jon in the all-star weekend festivities! Looks like he’s got sum handles!!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

The PR 180 he's done since leaving for LIV is incredible to me. I checked out one of his Youtube videos yesterday and I can't believe anyone thinks he's genuine at all, but I guess it doesn't even matter if he's playing a character since he's still been entertaining. 

Pretty clear people are gullible in part because of their social media consumption.  BDC is an elite golfer and has a bazillion dollars but he doesn't have one thing, and he can never buy it either, "Class"

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMapFw6sfXL/

 

Edited July 25 by BlackDiamondPar5

[TiScape]

6 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Pretty clear people are gullible in part because of their social media consumption.  BDC is an elite golfer and has a bazillion dollars but he doesn't have one thing, and he can never buy it either, "Class"

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMapFw6sfXL/

 

No doubt the same ppl falling for the SM weight loss snake oil n get rich quick crypto schemes are the same ones thinking Bryson’s new PR persona is genuine.

Gullible is putting it kindly 😇

[betarhoalphadelta]

37 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I think that most of the players will stay just to play for the larger purses with little to no competition. The players don't have many options at their disposal.

 

IMo

 

I dunno... I feel like DJ might retire once his contract is up. Cam as well, b/c I think he doesn't care and now he's rich enough. I see them as being the type to take the money, deal with the term of the contract, and ride off into the sunset.

 

Others might walk because they don't like the "conditions" that come with being on LIV... Forced international travel, no control over schedule, no control over what you're allowed to--or forced to--say, etc. I see this as maybe the has-been Euro golfers that went for the contract and are now old enough, and rich enough, to retire. Yeah the $4M winner's prize looks big, but if you're in the bottom half of the field (as many of them might be), your share is <$200K. And that's ASSUMING LIV actually keeps up these $20M purses, which isn't a guarantee IMHO. 

 

I think anyone who thinks they're good enough to return to PGAT will want to do so... Which is probably most of the players capable of regularly finishing in the top 10-12 of their events, and thus the only players LIV would be worth trying to keep. But if they're just trying to keep them with purse sizes but have the forced international travel, no schedule control, and all the other restrictions. And I'd think this would be especially true of the American players. 

 

The only one who might have a major sticking point could be BDC, as he would need to work out some sort of blanket deal for all his YT content due to the media rights restrictions. That said, I'm sure that the PGAT could work something out, and would be incentivized to, as long as they can do so in a way that doesn't jeopardize their other TV/media deals at the detriment to the other players and the Tour itself. 

[Holy Moses]

16 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I dunno... I feel like DJ might retire once his contract is up. Cam as well, b/c I think he doesn't care and now he's rich enough. I see them as being the type to take the money, deal with the term of the contract, and ride off into the sunset.

 

Others might walk because they don't like the "conditions" that come with being on LIV... Forced international travel, no control over schedule, no control over what you're allowed to--or forced to--say, etc. I see this as maybe the has-been Euro golfers that went for the contract and are now old enough, and rich enough, to retire. Yeah the $4M winner's prize looks big, but if you're in the bottom half of the field (as many of them might be), your share is <$200K. And that's ASSUMING LIV actually keeps up these $20M purses, which isn't a guarantee IMHO. 

 

I think anyone who thinks they're good enough to return to PGAT will want to do so... Which is probably most of the players capable of regularly finishing in the top 10-12 of their events, and thus the only players LIV would be worth trying to keep. But if they're just trying to keep them with purse sizes but have the forced international travel, no schedule control, and all the other restrictions. And I'd think this would be especially true of the American players. 

 

The only one who might have a major sticking point could be BDC, as he would need to work out some sort of blanket deal for all his YT content due to the media rights restrictions. That said, I'm sure that the PGAT could work something out, and would be incentivized to, as long as they can do so in a way that doesn't jeopardize their other TV/media deals at the detriment to the other players and the Tour itself. 

DJ said he will play a few more years of mostly terrible golf and then retire

[subrew]

31 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

The only one who might have a major sticking point could be BDC, as he would need to work out some sort of blanket deal for all his YT content due to the media rights restrictions. That said, I'm sure that the PGAT could work something out, and would be incentivized to, as long as they can do so in a way that doesn't jeopardize their other TV/media deals at the detriment to the other players and the Tour itself. 

 

I'm out of the loop on this stuff, because frankly, I never paid attention to it before or after LIV.  I just read the snippets from players and mostly YT people who commented how difficult it often was to get a PGAT player on their channel.  About three years ago Rick played a match with Rickie, and they said it took something like 10 months to iron out all the BS with the PGAT, and it mostly only happened because Cobra got involved.  Now it seems much easier for YT channels to get the PGAT players on.  

 

But things have changed, to the point now that Tommy Fleetwood has a YT channel.  So does Jason Day.  Doing everything from instruction, to just showing how they practice, to having mini matches.  My guess is a lot of what restricted players pre-LIV has been smoothed out.  

[Mr.Cleeks]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

To me it's that the PIF needed an exit strategy.

 

It's embarrassing to run a failed, useless, unwatched tour. It's more embarrassing to shut it down in disgrace with nothing to show for it. So keeping it running as long as possible to try to find a way to shut it down without admitting defeat is key. 

 

Which is why I think PIF really wanted the merger. But they wanted a merger that they could call a "victory", which would likely entail YAR having a prominent powerful position in the new org, some sort of sop where some of the LIV tour events are rolled into the PGAT schedule while still maintaining international events (incl. annual events in SA), some sop to the "team" thing, etc.

 

They couldn't stomach shutting down LIV just to be a silent partner putting money into PGATE, and I think that's pretty much what they were being offered. 

 

So now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. LIV took their shot and missed. The contracts will be coming up for renewal and LIV can afford to--but would be stupid to--renew them for certain players. If they don't, players will leave LIV en masse once their contracts are up, and they're NOT going to get a steady stream of stars to replace them. So it comes down to keeping a failed tour, with "nobody" players, on display, where everyone will see it 14 times a year, point and laugh... Or it comes down to shutting it down which is a very public admission of defeat. One hits the pocketbook, the other hits the ego. Which one will rule the decision-making?

 

Maybe there's another option I'm not considering?

I mean the best exit strategy is no exit strategy. The top guys have seen that active liv players have only won 2 of the 14 majors since the league started and its a waste going to LIV if you wanna compete in majors

[betarhoalphadelta]

5 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

I'm out of the loop on this stuff, because frankly, I never paid attention to it before or after LIV.  I just read the snippets from players and mostly YT people who commented how difficult it often was to get a PGAT player on their channel.  About three years ago Rick played a match with Rickie, and they said it took something like 10 months to iron out all the BS with the PGAT, and it mostly only happened because Cobra got involved.  Now it seems much easier for YT channels to get the PGAT players on.  

 

But things have changed, to the point now that Tommy Fleetwood has a YT channel.  So does Jason Day.  Doing everything from instruction, to just showing how they practice, to having mini matches.  My guess is a lot of what restricted players pre-LIV has been smoothed out.  

 

Ahh. That's good context. I don't follow YT golf much, just knew that it was one of BDC's major sticking points. 

 

My thought was that if they brought BDC back it would mean that they'd have to address player content to get him back, and that might open a smoother process for other players. But it seems I might have it reversed... They've already been developing a smoother process, and that might help them entice him to come back if it's no longer nearly impossible to get anything approved. 

 

[StoutKing]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

Oh really. Good for them. 
 

*WRXers are ratings experts. Perhaps one of our esteemed members will produce the #s for us! lol 

 

**my 3min search 👀 found this! 😂 

I've got the same deal with LIV as I do the WNBA (hell, even NBA).  $200/hr to watch their product.  I'm cheap

Edited July 25 by StoutKing

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I dunno... I feel like DJ might retire once his contract is up. Cam as well, b/c I think he doesn't care and now he's rich enough. I see them as being the type to take the money, deal with the term of the contract, and ride off into the sunset.

 

Others might walk because they don't like the "conditions" that come with being on LIV... Forced international travel, no control over schedule, no control over what you're allowed to--or forced to--say, etc. I see this as maybe the has-been Euro golfers that went for the contract and are now old enough, and rich enough, to retire. Yeah the $4M winner's prize looks big, but if you're in the bottom half of the field (as many of them might be), your share is <$200K. And that's ASSUMING LIV actually keeps up these $20M purses, which isn't a guarantee IMHO. 

 

I think anyone who thinks they're good enough to return to PGAT will want to do so... Which is probably most of the players capable of regularly finishing in the top 10-12 of their events, and thus the only players LIV would be worth trying to keep. But if they're just trying to keep them with purse sizes but have the forced international travel, no schedule control, and all the other restrictions. And I'd think this would be especially true of the American players. 

 

The only one who might have a major sticking point could be BDC, as he would need to work out some sort of blanket deal for all his YT content due to the media rights restrictions. That said, I'm sure that the PGAT could work something out, and would be incentivized to, as long as they can do so in a way that doesn't jeopardize their other TV/media deals at the detriment to the other players and the Tour itself. 

You must remember that these players are greedy beyond comprehension. They will never have enough money.      IMO🤣

[fowlerscousin]

Lee westwood could back door a ryder cup selection. Juaqin clear favorite now. AK a good first round

[jdl]

2 minutes ago, fowlerscousin said:

Lee westwood could back door a ryder cup selection. Juaqin clear favorite now. AK a good first round

Your trolling was kind of cute for a while but now you're not even putting any effort into it.

[NosajNeelik]

5 hours ago, StoutKing said:

They will keep losing money just to keep it open out of spite; similar to the Seinfeld episode. 😉

Curb your enthusiasm 

[Mr.Cleeks]

Honest question: would you rather play JCB or TPC Twin Cities the week after the Open?

[ShowMe]

A better way to think about LIV is that it's the Saudi Arabian Tour.  So we have the PGA, DP World Tour, Korn Ferry Tour, Asian Tour, etc., and the Saudi Arabian Tour.  And if they were to play four rounds of golf in a non-team format like all the other official tours do, the players could qualify to be ranked in the OWGR.  The OWGR doesn't need to bend the rules to try and include them, they have to conform to the rules to be ranked.  Pretty simple...

[grm24]

4 hours ago, jdl said:

Your trolling was kind of cute for a while but now you're not even putting any effort into it.

When did he ever?

[Shilgy]

18 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

If you think the Ryder Cup isn’t weakened if a number of top Europeans are shut out, you aren’t serious. I’m clearly no LIV fan, but Rahm and Hatton need to be there.

If you would have said that the first time I’d agree. Hatton has been playing great in the majors and Rahm has been good. Sergio we don’t need…don’t miss…just needs to go away.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, ShowMe said:

A better way to think about LIV is that it's the Saudi Arabian Tour.  So we have the PGA, DP World Tour, Korn Ferry Tour, Asian Tour, etc., and the Saudi Arabian Tour.  And if they were to play four rounds of golf in a non-team format like all the other official tours do, the players could qualify to be ranked in the OWGR.  The OWGR doesn't need to bend the rules to try and include them, they have to conform to the rules to be ranked.  Pretty simple...

That wouldn’t do a thing to improve their chances of rankings if they don’t change how players are allowed to play LIV.  If they don’t have any churn so it is just a closed shop they will not get points.

[billyspan]

2 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Honest question: would you rather play JCB or TPC Twin Cities the week after the Open?

I would rather take the week off. 😛

[billyspan]

5 hours ago, fowlerscousin said:

Lee westwood could back door a ryder cup selection. Juaqin clear favorite now. AK a good first round

How are Ketchup, Triangle and Saddam doing?