LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[WesternRacing]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

Can a golfer not do well in certain settings, set-ups and formats of competitions and not others?

 

Maybe the compressed format (54 holes and shorter day on the course) just suits him better.  I don't know but I got to think there is likely more than one reason and more than just, these guys are has beens and nobodies.  Bryson is out there not lighting LIV on fire but doing decent in majors.  Majors were sort of flukey to begin with and might be even more so with essentially three tours coming together to play them.  You get some odd winners and odd names on the leaderboard.

 

Yes, some golfers can do well against diminished fields and not do well against fields filled with the best golfers in the world.  They’re called average pros, not The Best Player in the World. The latter is more likely to do the opposite, as they won’t see a challenge in playing against the chaff.

[Mr.Cleeks]

2 hours ago, billyspan said:

I'll bite...not enough credit for his 7 wins on the Euro Tour from the stateside crowd.  

Comes up big in the majors...but always a bridesmaid.  Very solid record there (plus a 2nd at the Olympics ), but he needs a major or two to be remembered.

Tommy chokes bad whenever he has a chance to win on the PGAT. Travelers was bad but the 2023 Canadian Open was just as bad if not worse. The nick taylor putt was awesome but he should've won that in regulation. 510 yard par 5 and arguably the easiest hole on tour

[bcjim]

3 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Joaqo is doing on LIV what Rahm was expected to do after taking that massive bag 💰 Jon and Joaqo should switch bags 

Exactly.  Niemann got to earn his 300M. Rahm was just handed 300M.

[fowlerscousin]

13 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

I wonder about the consequences Brooks, Bryson, and Bubba will get for being in the Happy Gilmore 2 movie that clearly poked at LIV. Are they going to realize they can never get out and they have to put the tee back in the basket or else they get the hose again?

I dont think LIV is surprised that a big budget hollywood movie took the normie espn and golf channel perspective

[TiScape]

1 minute ago, bcjim said:

Exactly.  Niemann got to earn his 300M. Rahm was just handed 300M.

Rahm that player that showed out, got a massive guaranteed contract and then fell off. Happens all the time unfortunately.
Why I truly love and respect the PGAT. One  of the last major sports that still has performance based pay. Obvious why the players don’t love it. But as a fan, it doesn’t get better. 

[Hawkeye77]

17 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Exactly.  Niemann got to earn his 300M. Rahm was just handed 300M.

Actually over 1/2 billion dollars for Rahm. 

[smashdn]

17 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

Yes, some golfers can do well against diminished fields and not do well against fields filled with the best golfers in the world.  They’re called average pros, not The Best Player in the World. The latter is more likely to do the opposite, as they won’t see a challenge in playing against the chaff.

 

So what then of the converse when an "average pro" bests the best players in the world?  More so curious what that makes the best in the world when they get beaten.  ( I reread your post.  I see you have already baked in an excuse for the best.)

 

I am not trying to make the case that Niemann is one of the "best in the world" either.  Guys get on tears and do well.  Guys get into a groove.  Guys have certain courses/types of courses that they do well on.  They do well in situations that are comfortable to them.  I am sure majors are "not like every other tournament" to most and certainly a stark departure from a LIV tournament in terms of atmosphere and structure.

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

So what then of the converse when an "average pro" bests the best players in the world?  More so curious what that makes the best in the world when they get beaten.  ( I reread your post.  I see you have already baked in an excuse for the best.)

 

I am not trying to make the case that Niemann is one of the "best in the world" either.  Guys get on tears and do well.  Guys get into a groove.  Guys have certain courses/types of courses that they do well on.  They do well in situations that are comfortable to them.  I am sure majors are "not like every other tournament" to most and certainly a stark departure from a LIV tournament in terms of atmosphere and structure.

 

could be he’s just continued to put in the same amount of work he did as when he was on the PGA tour.

 

it’s possible that the guys who got the huge sign-on just didn’t see any need to do all that work week to week anymore

 

but it’s just a tad doubtful that he would have four wins on the PGA Tour this year 🤣

Edited July 28 by bscinstnct

[WesternRacing]

16 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

So what then of the converse when an "average pro" bests the best players in the world?  More so curious what that makes the best in the world when they get beaten.  ( I reread your post.  I see you have already baked in an excuse for the best.)

 

 

The guys that win are the better players in the world.  The guys that don’t aren’t.  And I’m not talking about every single tournament.  Of course the best will lose as well, but they won’t miss cuts repeatedly and they won’t go years between wins against good fields in golf.  And Niemann’s not doing this during a down period, he’s missing cuts during the same period he’s dominating at LIV!

 

Outside of his LIV umbrella, Niemann’s won less against good fields than Brian Harman.  Is Harman one of the best players in the world?

 

Niemann may eventually become a top player, but right now he hasn’t proven anything, his traveling exhibition tour wins notwithstanding.

 

Edited July 28 by WesternRacing

[ronsc1985]

15 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Rahm that player that showed out, got a massive guaranteed contract and then fell off. Happens all the time unfortunately.
Why I truly love and respect the PGAT. One  of the last major sports that still has performance based pay. Obvious why the players don’t love it. But as a fan, it doesn’t get better. 

I always get a chuckle about posts like this.

 

In fact LIV has a purse structure for every event which pays out more the higher up you finish on the leaderboard.

 

LIV has in fact the same system as most other professional sports league i.e. you get paid for signing up to play in the league and get additional  money the better you do relative to the others competing in said league.

 

The amount you get paid up front varies and has to do with how much the owners feel you are worth to them. Opinions vary as to the amounts involved. 

 

It's kind of like a base salary plus bonuses for performance in a lot of employment scenarios.

[smashdn]

17 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

but it’s just a tad doubtful that he would have four wins on the PGA Tour this year 🤣

 

Math alone would likely preclude that.

Edited July 28 by smashdn

[Golfnutgalen]

JT hasn't done anything special in majors lately either and yet he's #4 in the OWGR. Anomalies like this happen. 

 

In terms of SG in majors only over the past 2 seasons he's +0.60 while Niemann is +1.13

[TiScape]

18 minutes ago, Golfnutgalen said:

JT hasn't done anything special in majors lately either and yet he's #4 in the OWGR. Anomalies like this happen. 

 

In terms of SG in majors only over the past 2 seasons he's +0.60 while Niemann is +1.13

How JT get pulled into this?! Guy out there trying to earn a check. Leave him be!!! 
 

🤣

[bscinstnct]

 

[TiScape]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Those fans must not have SM and just haven’t realized yet that Bryson is now “the man of the people”.  🤪

[billyspan]

34 minutes ago, Golfnutgalen said:

JT hasn't done anything special in majors lately either and yet he's #4 in the OWGR. Anomalies like this happen. 

 

In terms of SG in majors only over the past 2 seasons he's +0.60 while Niemann is +1.13

cut-free LIV and Signature Events inflate the OWGR.  My opinion of course.

[billyspan]

@WesternRacing Here is one way to look at Majors-only performance in 2025.  This is from a CBS Sports article that can be found here: https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/cumulative-major-leaderboards-illustrate-scottie-schefflers-dominance-rory-mcilroys-stellar-play-in-2025/

 

The qualifications for a player to make his way onto the leaderboard is simple -- play in all four major championships and make the cut in all four major championships.

 

 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Golf, but meaner

Edited July 28 by Holy Moses

[bcjim]

39 minutes ago, Golfnutgalen said:

JT hasn't done anything special in majors lately either and yet he's #4 in the OWGR. Anomalies like this happen. 

 

In terms of SG in majors only over the past 2 seasons he's +0.60 while Niemann is +1.13

He's always been hit or miss in majors but his overall record this year is rather stellar. In both full field and sig events. His OWGR is pretty well earned imo.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

7 minutes ago, billyspan said:

cut-free LIV and Signature Events inflate the OWGR.  My opinion of course.

I don't even see how some of these posters can even be serious. Probably aren't, just trolling. But Niemann is playing a hyper limited field on easier courses against only about 4-6 guys that can compete on pgat. His stats from LIV are effectively useless. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

21 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Thanks for posting. Any backstory on this? Either that don't know he's a golf God on social media or they saw his true colors here

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMapFw6sfXL/

[bscinstnct]

BD be like

 

 

[TiScape]

15 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I don’t even see how some of these people can even be serious. Probably aren't, just trolling. But Niemann is playing a hyper limited field on easier courses against only about 4-6 guys that can compete on pgat. His stats from LIV are effectively useless. 

Ask myself that every day. 

[TiScape]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

BD be like

 

 

No doubt B that guy! Love it 😂 

[Titleist99]

31 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I don't even see how some of these posters can even be serious. Probably aren't, just trolling. But Niemann is playing a hyper limited field on easier courses against only about 4-6 guys that can compete on pgat. His stats from LIV are effectively useless. 

 

100% agree. Plus, playing the exact same guys every tournament has to be comforting. Having teammates has to be reassuring as well.  IMo

 

[Dave230]

The best thing I've seen said about Niemann is that he won 4 LIV Tour events and then got rid of his coach and caddie mid-season after he missed the cut at the Open. Imagine a player winning 4 PGA Tour events in a season and getting rid of their coach and caddie mid-season. I just can't see it, it would be considered one of the best seasons in their career and they'd be a lot happier than he's looked recently.

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, ronsc1985 said:

I always get a chuckle about posts like this.

 

In fact LIV has a purse structure for every event which pays out more the higher up you finish on the leaderboard.

 

LIV has in fact the same system as most other professional sports league i.e. you get paid for signing up to play in the league and get additional  money the better you do relative to the others competing in said league.

 

The amount you get paid up front varies and has to do with how much the owners feel you are worth to them. Opinions vary as to the amounts involved. 

 

It's kind of like a base salary plus bonuses for performance in a lot of employment scenarios.

Ur welcome for the chuckle 🤭 

 

*I actually get paid here by the chuckle. So thanks! 🙏🏼 

Edited July 28 by TiScape

[WesternRacing]

2 hours ago, ronsc1985 said:

I always get a chuckle about posts like this.

 

In fact LIV has a purse structure for every event which pays out more the higher up you finish on the leaderboard.

 

LIV has in fact the same system as most other professional sports league i.e. you get paid for signing up to play in the league and get additional  money the better you do relative to the others competing in said league.

 

The amount you get paid up front varies and has to do with how much the owners feel you are worth to them. Opinions vary as to the amounts involved. 

 

It's kind of like a base salary plus bonuses for performance in a lot of employment scenarios.

 

True, but you’re ignoring one big fact there.  Those leagues are all highly profitable, with a massive following and a fan base that pays for watching those players entertain them.  Golf is a very different animal.  The actual play isn’t all that entertaining to a broad group of people; hence why golf is such a minor professional sport in the U.S., even in the form of the PGA Tour.  A key part of the draw of golf is the meritocratic aspect of it, the human drama, the playing for a paycheck nature of it.  If it were simply a league of highly paid players, with only bonuses (which are a small percentage of the stars salaries) on the line, the audience would be fairly small and the operation would be unprofitable (e.g., see “LIV Golf”).

 

The fact is that, for the star players at LIV, all of whom got big signing bonuses, the purses are relatively immaterial.  And even if they finish DFL, they still make $50k for four, sorry, three days of work.  Anything in between is a guaranteed solid paycheck just for showing up.  To play in a league that is losing money hand over fist to pay them that guaranteed paycheck because their fan base is so small.

 

 

Edited July 28 by WesternRacing

[WesternRacing]

1 hour ago, billyspan said:

@WesternRacing Here is one way to look at Majors-only performance in 2025.  This is from a CBS Sports article that can be found here: https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/cumulative-major-leaderboards-illustrate-scottie-schefflers-dominance-rory-mcilroys-stellar-play-in-2025/

 

The qualifications for a player to make his way onto the leaderboard is simple -- play in all four major championships and make the cut in all four major championships.

 

 

 

And there you go.  Exactly what I was saying.

 

IMO, Hatton and Rahm are the best players on LIV right now, and it’s no surprise that the #4 and #6 players in the world according to OWGR, JT and Morikawa, aren’t even on this list.  I do think a more accurate approach would be to just take the OWGR points from the Majors only to compile the list; that way players that made some cuts would be included.  It wouldn’t change things much directionally though.

[bscinstnct]

I think LIV golf is “here to stay”

 

The have Aramco and a few other big SA companies as sponsors so the money is perpetually available.

 

I do think they will try to keep the current operating expenses in check. 
 

The big question is if and who is out there that it’s even worth big money to sign.

 

Do they offer 100MM+ to guys like Hovland and Åberg? Even if they don’t their purses are big enough that they should be able to attract top 50 players, especially Euro/Aus/Asia based players.