LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

Haven't people already said the "increased purse" thing is mostly bunk - the money is going to the team payouts but the teams are also footing more of their expenses?

The teams are footing all of their team expenses and have been for a year I thought

[Titleist99]

10 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I am still amazed that folks watch non-instructional or non-equipment golf content on YouTube.

I've since learned that they watch for the personality of the content creator.

[Titleist99]

4 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

The teams are footing all of their team expenses and have been for a year I thought

I have long faced the fact that I know nothing about LIV, and when I ask, I'm considered a detractor of the league.

[ThinkingPlus]

6 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I've since learned that they watch for the personality of the content creator.

Apparently.  It explains why I only watch instructional and maybe equipment related golf content.

[bscinstnct]

20 minutes ago, smashdn said:

Are we talking about golf business and entertainment or what is good for Golf?

 

They aren't necessarily exclusive but are also not intrinsically linked either.

 

Taking highest level professional golfers to places like Thailand and back to Australia and South Africa = Good for Golf but not necessarily good for golf business nor good or even easy for the professional golfer.

Taking highest level professional golfers to places like Thailand and back to Australia and South Africa = Good for Golf

 

Again, LIV currently does not.  But if LIV were what is was designed to be, 50ish of the best players in the world (not just the ones who they could sign to gigantic contracts) playing globally, it would be compelling.  It would be major-light and condensed.

 

I disagree that lack of compelling golf is the biggest reason there are few fans and sponsors.  LIV is trying to plow the same ground (US) where the PGA has already turned the dirt so to speak.  They would get more on-site fans by going to these pro golf starved places but in doing that they run into broadcast timing issues.  That is one issue.  Secondly, LIV is painted as terrorist supporting org in the US.  That isn't going to get US sponsors lining up.  Same deal with courses willing to host.  There are a lot of reasons why it is not working well.  Some very self-inflicted, others not so much.  Look objectively at what they are up to and what the plan was, without regard for which specific golfers are playing now and where the support money comes from, and it is not an idea without merit.  It just would have obstacles inherent that it would need to deal with, outside of the Saudi issues and the PGAT and DPWT fighting back.  Which is why I said if the PGAT were to have spearheaded it, it would be much better than it is currently.  I don't think the WGC events were ever really supported well enough and like has been mentioned, COVID killed those off finally.

 

Clearly you can overcome a lot with money.  LIV is proving that by hanging in there this long.  You remove some of the pushback with different genesis I feel like it would be in a much better place.  Even just the TV aspect of it.  It could be primetime, live golf on Golf Channel.

 

“But if LIV were what is was designed to be,”

 

No sport has every season game trying to be the Super Bowl. You have big games and mostly just good games. 
 

The top players obviously don’t believe in the LIV model or it wouldn’t take 100s of millions to get them to leave. 

 

All LIV has done is made a few guys rich and taken them off the pga tour and then… nobody watched them. 
 

Can Smith is a perfect example of why the liv model doesn’t work for golf. Great for his wallet though lol
 

 

 

[dcmidnight]

34 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I am still amazed that folks watch non-instructional or non-equipment golf content on YouTube.

 

I'd put some of the No Laying Up long form travel stuff up against any golf documentary or show on TGC - past or current...if they even still have shows.

[ThinkingPlus]

40 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I'd put some of the No Laying Up long form travel stuff up against any golf documentary or show on TGC - past or current...if they even still have shows.

If I traveled to play golf, something like that might be interesting. 

[jdl]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Money talks though.  Structure it so it is at most 50 guys and they are not paying anything out of pocket to get themselves there.  Pay the caddies way as well.  Is that not pretty much would liv did, bribe err pay via contract the best players who would agree to come play?  LIV got stuck with some bottom of barrel guys though.

 

"Hey, you 50 guys have qualified to play in the Rolex Big Shiny Watch Championship at North Berwick.  It is three weeks before The Open.  Chartered flight leaves at 8:00 pm from whatever town airport that that particular PGAT event would be from.  Serving steak or fish.  Full bar.  Congrats on the good play."

 

You would create an "all-star" league (the elevated events).  Downside is how you soothe the Wyndham folks when the best are further incentivized to skip the Greater Greensboro Open's on the schedule.  This past week's 3M Open wasn't exactly dripping with star power though.

 

This is still WGC, go to Mexico, Korea, China, etc. It didn't work.

 

If "money talked" then these guys would have gone to LIV. A few did, but the majority didn't. The top players are already pretty wealthy and fly on nice planes when they do travel.

 

And this is just re-hashing stuff from last year. Or the year before that. Or the year before that....

Edited July 29 by jdl

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I am still amazed that folks watch non-instructional or non-equipment golf content on YouTube.

 

I'm not. My son (about to turn 18) watches all sorts of stuff on YouTube, golf or otherwise. I personally don't understand how he can spend that much time staring at his phone... Who wants to watch anything on a 5.5" screen?!

 

That said, some of it is fun. I'll sometimes throw something like that on as background while I WFH. I'm not REALLY watching it that actively. It's not something that trumps tournament golf for me. But it's a lot more interesting than Golf Today on GC 😂 

[WesternRacing]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

Are we talking about golf business and entertainment or what is good for Golf?

 

They aren't necessarily exclusive but are also not intrinsically linked either.

 

Taking highest level professional golfers to places like Thailand and back to Australia and South Africa = Good for Golf but not necessarily good for golf business nor good or even easy for the professional golfer.

Taking highest level professional golfers to places like Thailand and back to Australia and South Africa = Good for Golf

 

Again, LIV currently does not.  But if LIV were what is was designed to be, 50ish of the best players in the world (not just the ones who they could sign to gigantic contracts) playing globally, it would be compelling.  It would be major-light and condensed.

 

I disagree that lack of compelling golf is the biggest reason there are few fans and sponsors.  LIV is trying to plow the same ground (US) where the PGA has already turned the dirt so to speak.  They would get more on-site fans by going to these pro golf starved places but in doing that they run into broadcast timing issues.  That is one issue.  Secondly, LIV is painted as terrorist supporting org in the US.  That isn't going to get US sponsors lining up.  Same deal with courses willing to host.  There are a lot of reasons why it is not working well.  Some very self-inflicted, others not so much.  Look objectively at what they are up to and what the plan was, without regard for which specific golfers are playing now and where the support money comes from, and it is not an idea without merit.  It just would have obstacles inherent that it would need to deal with, outside of the Saudi issues and the PGAT and DPWT fighting back.  Which is why I said if the PGAT were to have spearheaded it, it would be much better than it is currently.  I don't think the WGC events were ever really supported well enough and like has been mentioned, COVID killed those off finally.

 

Clearly you can overcome a lot with money.  LIV is proving that by hanging in there this long.  You remove some of the pushback with different genesis I feel like it would be in a much better place.  Even just the TV aspect of it.  It could be primetime, live golf on Golf Channel.

 

We’re talking about professional golf, I.e., people that play for money, big money.  So business and entertainment is the single most important element to this discussion.  If you want to talk about what’s good for ‘golf’, you should look to the USGA and the PGA of America.  And once you start talking about international expansion, what’s ’good for golf’ in one region might not be ‘good for golf’ in another region.  IMO, there is zero value to the game of golf in the U.S. or to me as a fan by having the best players in the world playing internationally.  It’s a negative due to the time zone difference.  And few of the players have any interest whatsoever in playing internationally and have said as much.  The PGA Tour was very smart in not playing much overseas, as they knew that their market is largely here in the U.S. and the U.S. fanbase sees no value in waking up at 2 in the morning to watch golf in Singapore.

 

And let’s get real, LIV was not created to be some altruistic entity designed to grow the game of golf, internationally or otherwise.  It was designed with an expectation that they would be able to poach most of the most prized assets of the PGA Tour and quickly have the top professional golf tour in the world.  And they’ve failed miserably for so many reasons, which have been discussed here ad nauseum.  They’re expanding internationally because it’s their only choice; they’re a failed entity in the U.S.

 

LIV is the equivalent of a rich oil sheik paying for The Rolling Stones to play a private concert for him every weekend.  That’s all it is.  The fact that LIV survives is evidence of nothing other than the fact that said sheik is fine throwing money away.

 

Edited July 29 by WesternRacing

[Holy Moses]

 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I'm not. My son (about to turn 18) watches all sorts of stuff on YouTube, golf or otherwise. I personally don't understand how he can spend that much time staring at his phone... Who wants to watch anything on a 5.5" screen?!

 

That said, some of it is fun. I'll sometimes throw something like that on as background while I WFH. I'm not REALLY watching it that actively. It's not something that trumps tournament golf for me. But it's a lot more interesting than Golf Today on GC 😂 

There you go, right there. Golf Today is my favorite television show.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

*PS/ I'd never stare at a five-inch screen for five hours under any circumstance.

 

~I draw the line at 55 inches.

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, CDM said:

 

The PGAT has Rule 6-7 that addresses slow play, out of position, etc.  Which they have the right to assert penalties but I can not recall it ever being enforce or have seen.

 

First offense:  One Stroke Penalty

Second offense:  Two-Stroke Penalty 

Subsquent offenses:  Disqualification

 

*Assume the offenses are per event? I dont think a cmnulative? 

Yes, that was my point….they have to be out of position.  And if there are extenuating circumstances that led them to be behind they are typically given a few holes to get caught up.

 

I admit I also asked because many believe the “40 seconds to play a shot” is a rule but it’s just a recommendation.

[bcjim]

29 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

 

10x from what? 5 bucks?

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

 

Where are the details of this financial partnership list?

[Holy Moses]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Where are the details of this financial partnership list?

LIV doesn’t release details on this sort of thing. Whether it’s media deals or contract amounts, they’ll just be criticized so might as well keep it in house. 

[WesternRacing]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

 

 

What’s 10x Freddy’s Frozen Custard?

[Mr.Cleeks]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

 

This is like the office episode where Pam doubled her MoM sales from 2 to 4

Edited July 30 by Mr.Cleeks

[bscinstnct]

3 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Where are the details of this financial partnership list?

 

Huge SA companies on the list. No shortage of sources of revenue for them. As to the return on these investments/sponsorships for the sponsoring companies vis a vis the pga tour and its sponsors, hard to say

 

https://www.livgolf.com/partners

Edited July 30 by bscinstnct

[Mr.Cleeks]

I legitimately forget LIV exists at times. Their is 0 cohesion to the schedule, they don’t play the week before the pga, they play Valderrama the week before the open (furthest thing from the open) and play Doral the week before the Masters.  The schedule just doesn’t make sense to me

[CDM]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Yes, that was my point….they have to be out of position.  And if there are extenuating circumstances that led them to be behind they are typically given a few holes to get caught up.

 

I admit I also asked because many believe the “40 seconds to play a shot” is a rule but it’s just a recommendation.

 

Well how players get out of position on the PGAT is pretty obvious.   They fall behind, but that never happens as we know as ALL of them for the most part play slow.  Yes a lot of money on the line but still.   So you dont see the gapping of groups to create "out of position"     

 

Again money on the line but watching a two some play 18 holes in 4.5 hours is pretty crazy. 

 

As to the "40 seconds to play a shot"  I thought was applied to the second / third players.  *depend on groupings

 

That at times is carzy as those players have been standing by their ball typically for the duration the of first player or the second player.  yes as noted circumstances apply if they are inline with another player to close but you can stand to the side and still do the math.  Then walk up, confirm your thoughts and pull the trigger...! 

[WesternRacing]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Huge SA companies on the list. No shortage of sources of revenue for them. As to the return on these investments/sponsorships for the sponsoring companies vis a vis the pga tour and its sponsors, hard to say

 

https://www.livgolf.com/partners

 

Do you honestly think that any of those companies other than ARAMCO are paying them serious money?  Outside of ARAMCO, that entire list of customers is likely less than $100 million in annual revenue collectively.  Most likely, way less.  And irrelevant to the success of the business, because the big money in sports lies in the broadcast rights, which LIV can’t garner because they don’t have any fans to speak of at this point.

’

Honestly, any discussion of the economics of LIV is a waste of time, as they’re never going to be profitable under their current business model and they obviously don’t care.  So debating the money side of things is moot.  The only thing worthy of debate is whether their product is entertaining and whether their players are playing world class golf.  For the most part the answer to those questions for most fans is no and no.

 

Essentially, most of the LIV ‘stars’ are the golf equivalent of the folks Meta pays millions to sit around the office doing nothing other than not working for a competitor.

 

 

Edited July 30 by WesternRacing

[CDM]

6 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

 

 

Not sure all the laugh facing on this post, I believe him.   

 

10 X 0 .....is still ZERO... 

 

Joking aside looking at the sponsors in the last event, a few other events this year compared to year one. Adding in some of the teams have done endorsement deals with clubs companies now.  Could be true given where it started as they really started pretty much with nothing 4 years ago. 

[idrive]

Woke up, put the coffee on and started reading. Saw this:

 

Adam Scott casts doubt over PGA Tour's LIV Golf deal and opening up on 'divide'

Happier now than when I went to bed.

 

🤣

 

[drbonesvt]

LIV is on FS1 at times in the gym, id rather re stack all the plates than view it. 

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, drbonesvt said:

LIV is on FS1 at times in the gym, id rather re stack all the plates than view it. 

Perfect! Why nobody re-rack their weights??? 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

[Holy Moses]

12 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Perfect! Why nobody re-rack their weights??? 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

LIV is the re-rack cure! Spread the news 😂.

[TiScape]

1 minute ago, Holy Moses said:

LIV is the re-rack cure! Spread the news 😂.

Reminds me (a quick break from everyone hatin’ on LIV). A group of 3 teenagers finished up on the leg press and left like seven 45 plates on each side. They were headed for the door and an OG member yells “hey, your mama ain’t gonna re-rack those plates for ya! Get back here.”. They turned all shades of red and did the walk of shame back to the leg press. 😂 Classic

[smashdn]

21 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I am still amazed that folks watch non-instructional or non-equipment golf content on YouTube.

 

Fried Egg stuff on courses and Golf Digest discussions on architecture are solid content.

 

The more lenses through which I can enjoy Golf the better.  There has already come the day when I could care less about equipment and there will come a day when I am physically no longer able to play.  I am not entirely sure that I have not already plateaued at the "best" golf I will ever be able to play from a scoring and handicap standpoint.

[smashdn]

12 hours ago, CDM said:

 

Not sure all the laugh facing on this post, I believe him.   

 

10 X 0 .....is still ZERO... 

 

Joking aside looking at the sponsors in the last event, a few other events this year compared to year one. Adding in some of the teams have done endorsement deals with clubs companies now.  Could be true given where it started as they really started pretty much with nothing 4 years ago. 

 

Several teams have merch deals with companies providing the team gear (Reebok, Greyson).  Same with the bags.

JCB (heavy equipment manufacturer) sponsored the UK event.  HSBC sponsors LIV as well.

Edited July 30 by smashdn