LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Hawkeye77]

54 minutes ago, Dave230 said:

 

The older guys in particular still have a bit of skill but sometimes lack motivation. Stenson is talented enough to give a bit of extra oomph when he feels he has to prove himself. I don't see a big conspiracy that a once-great player like Stenson won a tournament without several of the world's best players.

Not claiming conspiracy but Stenson winning is an advertisement for the lack of excellence, depth and motivation on the LIV exhibition series. 
 

Guaranteed gazillions don’t breed motivation. 
 

He won in ‘17, nothing but the Hero since (good Ryder Cup in ‘18) and he’s tried to give the extra oomph over and over and it hasn’t worked and he hasn’t seemed all that motivated and has been involved in other things, and good for him.  He had a knee issue and a little elbow issue, but mostly a playing poorly OWGR free fall issue. 

So he fulfills the terms of the contract he signed and shows up for the Heinz 54 Barbecue series and yep, someone will have the lowest score. 

 

[tiderider]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not claiming conspiracy but Stenson winning is an advertisement for the lack of excellence, depth and motivation on the LIV exhibition series. 
 

Guaranteed gazillions don’t breed motivation. 
 

He won in ‘17, nothing but the Hero since (good Ryder Cup in ‘18) and he’s tried to give the extra oomph over and over and it hasn’t worked and he hasn’t seemed all that motivated and has been involved in other things, and good for him.  He had a knee issue and a little elbow issue, but mostly a playing poorly OWGR free fall issue. 

So he fulfills the terms of the contract he signed and shows up for the Heinz 54 Barbecue series and yep, someone will have the lowest score. 

 

but tiger!!!

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, tiderider said:

but tiger!!!

Different breed of cat!!

[Ghost of Snead]

4 hours ago, khalespace said:

P Reed is playing in Singapore this week with the purse at $1.5 mil and winning prize $280k. Why would he do this? Is he trying to stay in the top 50 for the majors, currently 46. Is he getting appearance fee?

 

His 5-year exemptions have expired for the US Open, PGA & Open Championship. Solely OWGR points as he wants to stay in the top-60. He might have to beg Tiger to play in the Hero. 

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

His 5-year exemptions have expired for the US Open, PGA & Open Championship. Solely OWGR points as he wants to stay in the top-60. He might have to beg Tiger to play in the Hero. 

I’m sure Tiger doesn’t remember Reed throwing him under the bus after the ‘18 Ryder Cup!

[jonsnow]

4 hours ago, subrew said:

 

It may very well just be for OWGR points.  If it ends up taking OWGR 6-12 months to make a decision, most of these guys are gonna fall down the points rapidly.  So even if the majors still "allow" them, they may have a hard time qualifying.

 

And yes, many LIV players have been quoted saying they want to play less, and be home more, and maybe majors don't care.  But not every LIV player has said that.  I think Patrick mostly talked about how it looks fun, and he likes the team aspect, when he announced his decision.    

 

And with a 5 week gap in the LIV Invitational schedule, where else is he going to play?  He can't play PGAT events.  Or DP events.  And he does tend to play a decent number of events each year.

That's interesting that he would like the team aspect since he was so popular among his teammates at the University of Georgia & Augusta State University...

[DrunkCaddy]

Music in the background is typical for the video game crowd.  Probably an attempt at the LIV group to appeal to the youngsters.

[CCTxGolf]

One major thing that needs to be fixed…

 

They have got to figure out how to get people educated about the courses. I think that goes a long way in golf enjoyment on TV. Shotgun starts is not conducive but it seems to be their main schtick besides 54 holes. Maybe Doral will help because we know the course.

[jdl]

8 hours ago, smashdn said:

RE: The International

 

I pulled up their website to take a look around and see what the course was like and truthfully I didn't find a lot.  They do have two courses, both recently renovated/restored (however you would like to look at it).  I am going to assume they will be using the Fazio designed and Tripp Davis renovated Oaks Course.  (The Pines was mentioned as shorter and trickier was why I figured Oaks would get the billing.)

 

At any rate just checking the hole designs this looks like it will be a challenging layout but may prevent spectators to an extent on certain holes.  This has a very TPC Potomac feel to it, without the holes through the marsh area.

 

Sometimes we talk about courses "needing" an event to maintain status, gain status, justify investment, attract members, etc.  This is just my perception and is no slight on the club or course, but this appears to me to be one such case where perhaps due to the PGAT keeping their Northeast/Boston area event at TPC River Highlands in Hartford, it opens the door for another course in the relative same geographic area to step in.

Have played there several times and until you mentioned it I hadn't thought about it but yeah, going to be some challenges there. Not a great course for galleries and it's not exact easy to get there either. Great facility and courses but not one you'd really choose for a pro event.

 

The previous owners had a lot of financial issues and it looked like the club might not survive until the recent purchase. Will be interesting to see what attendance is like, since losing the FedEx playoff event at TPC Boston there's probably some pent up demand there. I've told my friends that are thinking of going not to buy tickets right away because they can probably get them cheap/free eventually. 😀

[BottleCap]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Norman is a genius! 
 

They’ll just pay the schools not to play!

 

$$$$$$$$$$$&

You can stream it on YouTube in the evening when the PAC12 games are on

[dalehead]

1 hour ago, DrunkCaddy said:

Music in the background is typical for the video game crowd.  Probably an attempt at the LIV group to appeal to the youngsters.

They seem to be trying to provide a carnival atmosphere for the on site attendees. Music, entertainers, games, etc. It’s almost like two events. A county fair with a golf tournament going on next door. Might be great for the attendees but it means nothing to the TV viewer. In fact, as some have said, the music bleeding over is off putting.

[So_Cal]

First of all it’s not a tour…

[PhilsFanDrew]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not claiming conspiracy but Stenson winning is an advertisement for the lack of excellence, depth and motivation on the LIV exhibition series. 
 

Guaranteed gazillions don’t breed motivation. 
 

He won in ‘17, nothing but the Hero since (good Ryder Cup in ‘18) and he’s tried to give the extra oomph over and over and it hasn’t worked and he hasn’t seemed all that motivated and has been involved in other things, and good for him.  He had a knee issue and a little elbow issue, but mostly a playing poorly OWGR free fall issue. 

So he fulfills the terms of the contract he signed and shows up for the Heinz 54 Barbecue series and yep, someone will have the lowest score. 

 

 

I think it's also important to point out that they all played on a very unfamiliar track in Bedminster.  That benefits someone with a game like Stenson who doesn't really have it in him to go make a ton of birdies at this stage of his career like is needed to win on most PGA Tour venues.  Many are birdie fests because the courses are so well known and short of weather conditions there isn't much defense these days with players length.  He was able to get off to a really good start and then just play steady enough golf to hold on and with LIV you only have to last 54 holes.  Not so sure Stenson would have held on to the lead if it was a 72 hole event.  So in my opinion the unfamiliarity of the track to the field and how that adversely impacts the accumulation of birdies and lower scores provides a better explanation to Stenson's win than guys lacking desire/motivation.

 

I was at the event and watched many groups.  I didn't see anyone look like they were mailing it in.  DJ was pressing and played a really good 3rd round but was just narrowly missing birdie putts.  Stenson was in near gimme range on 18 before DJ hit his birdie attempt so DJ already knew Stenson was a lock and that his 4 Aces team was a lock for the Team title that week.  He could have easily just casually finished up but he and Austin still took their time reading his birdie putt and giving it their full attention because making it put him in a tie for 2nd.  Matt Wolff wasn't really in contention at the start of the 3rd round and got hot and shot -7 which is a crazy good round given the course setup/conditions.  He didn't pack it in.  Carlos Ortiz looked plenty motivated during the late stretch of his round.  While not in contention late to win individually, his efforts down the stretch including a birdie on 18 secured a 3rd place team finish for the Fireballs. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by PhilsFanDrew

[leezer99]

Current LIV Golf Search results.  This past weekend's event drew less search results than the prior week. Trending down IMO is no bueno.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by leezer99

[Shortgamemagic]

13 hours ago, oikos1 said:

So I got to thinking about this LIV Tour/Stenson win and I'm working on a metric to predict the next winner, but have to go back to the first Tournament.

 

First event and it would be too obvious to have DJ win so the next best thing, given the push back, would be someone who's not

controversial and a tad bland.  "Oh Charl...would you be a dear?"  I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about him until he joined the LIV Tour.

 

Second event is quite obvious.  Establish the Alpha of the Tour.  The number one get from the PGA Tour, and the leagues number one golfer.  DJ!

 

They were most likely trying to figure out who wins week three when the DP World Tour gift wrapped the ousted Ryder Cup Captain turned LIV Tour player.  Henrik!  The ultimate FU!

 

So to recap, we have:

 

Mr. Nothing Wrong, Nothing to See Here

Mr. Alpha Player

Mr. Captain FU

 

For the next and fourth tournament, it's time to rub it in the face of the Top 20 still on the PGA Tour.  Going to need someone who is disliked and is still within a relatable age range of those Top 20 players.  Their accountants will be counting their nickles and dimes after the FedexCup while they watch another LIV player win north of $4 million. The top three candidates are:

 

Brooksie

Captain America

BDC

 

Also, the first three winners on the LIV Tour are Major winners so those three selections also follow an obvious trend.

 

Still have a few weeks for new developments to occur, but that's what the LIV executives have to be planning.  Momma's getting a new mink coat!  🤣🤣

 

 

 

 

He can’t claim to be capt america on the LIV 

 

Capt. greed? Cheetin cheetah? Patrick Feed My family?

[tiderider]

8 hours ago, DrunkCaddy said:

Music in the background is typical for the video game crowd.  Probably an attempt at the LIV group to appeal to the youngsters.

ah, so it's really not about the golf ... 

[smashdn]

15 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

That said, what I would think OWGR could do is simply reduce the maximum number of points for 54-hole tournaments relative to 72-hole tournaments.

 

The 54 hole events already don't get full allocation of points.  I am fine with that.  It was really some of the other mentions in there that had me scratching my head and think, "who decided that was how it was going to be?"

 

I was checking the results of my state open championship the other day.  It was a 54 hole tournament with a cut at 36.  The cut was the top 30 and ties.  For the guys on either side of the cut line it becomes a question of when did you have that terd of a round.  Was it day one or two or did you save it for day three. 

[smashdn]

8 hours ago, dalehead said:

They seem to be trying to provide a carnival atmosphere for the on site attendees. Music, entertainers, games, etc. It’s almost like two events. A county fair with a golf tournament going on next door. Might be great for the attendees but it means nothing to the TV viewer. In fact, as some have said, the music bleeding over is off putting.

 

The only difference between a PGAT event and what LIV put on is the music you can hear.  PGAT stops usually have all that carnival stuff too sans the concerts.

[Hawkeye77]

33 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

The only difference between a PGAT event and what LIV put on is the music you can hear.  PGAT stops usually have all that carnival stuff too sans the concerts.

You mean other than the millions for local charities and too many other differences to bother with listing? 😀

[One Putter]

13 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not claiming conspiracy but Stenson winning is an advertisement for the lack of excellence, depth and motivation on the LIV exhibition series. 
 

Guaranteed gazillions don’t breed motivation. 
 

He won in ‘17, nothing but the Hero since (good Ryder Cup in ‘18) and he’s tried to give the extra oomph over and over and it hasn’t worked and he hasn’t seemed all that motivated and has been involved in other things, and good for him.  He had a knee issue and a little elbow issue, but mostly a playing poorly OWGR free fall issue. 

So he fulfills the terms of the contract he signed and shows up for the Heinz 54 Barbecue series and yep, someone will have the lowest score. 

 

+10000 to this post. Imagine thinking golf needs to be more like the NBA where a fat doofus like Harden makes more money than players that actually give a crap.

 

In fact i think thats what ill start calling this. The NBA-ization of golf.

Edited August 3, 2022 by One Putter

[idrive]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

The only difference between a PGAT event and what LIV put on is the music you can hear.  PGAT stops usually have all that carnival stuff too sans the concerts.

 

I would have to respectfully disagree. They are not even close from what I've seen and read.

 

I would also argue that they (liv) aren't trying to be the same...

 

[cardia10]

32 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You mean other than the millions for local charities and too many other differences to bother with listing? 😀

I'd say the PGA Tour Commissioner's salary ranking him 2nd on the money list is kind of a thorn with many of the players who sponsors support. I've said it before, but if we take OWGR points off strength of field, the PGA tour should be the one begging for points and remember, many of Snead's "record" wins came at 36 hole events with at least 3 other local club pros and whatever local am's wanted to sign up. The tour didn't have a very high opinion of strength of field then, not sure why it is all of the sudden an issue. The cream of the 2nd string PGA crop is now rising and I hope they do well, but it is diluted now and hard to compare now that you have lost half of the major winners over the last 5 years. 

[smashdn]

35 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You mean other than the millions for local charities and too many other differences to bother with listing? 😀

 

No, I kind of kept my response contained to the topic being discussed which was what was going on on the grounds at the time of the tournament.

[Ghost of Snead]

6 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

I'd say the PGA Tour Commissioner's salary ranking him 2nd on the money list is kind of a thorn with many of the players who sponsors support. I've said it before, but if we take OWGR points off strength of field, the PGA tour should be the one begging for points and remember, many of Snead's "record" wins came at 36 hole events with at least 3 other local club pros and whatever local am's wanted to sign up. The tour didn't have a very high opinion of strength of field then, not sure why it is all of the sudden an issue. The cream of the 2nd string PGA crop is now rising and I hope they do well, but it is diluted now and hard to compare now that you have lost half of the major winners over the last 5 years. 

 

Wonder why ... the OWGR started in 1986. What was Snead's ranking ? 

[Hawkeye77]

8 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

No, I kind of kept my response contained to the topic being discussed which was what was going on on the grounds at the time of the tournament.

Fair enough!

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

I'd say the PGA Tour Commissioner's salary ranking him 2nd on the money list is kind of a thorn with many of the players who sponsors support. I've said it before, but if we take OWGR points off strength of field, the PGA tour should be the one begging for points and remember, many of Snead's "record" wins came at 36 hole events with at least 3 other local club pros and whatever local am's wanted to sign up. The tour didn't have a very high opinion of strength of field then, not sure why it is all of the sudden an issue. The cream of the 2nd string PGA crop is now rising and I hope they do well, but it is diluted now and hard to compare now that you have lost half of the major winners over the last 5 years. 

Based on what evidence?

 

The players know darn well what the Commissioner makes and I'm sure they can readily compare their annual and lifetime earnings, lol.  He and Finchem before him (and Tiger) is why they are rich.

 

What happened with a few events over many years that Sam Snead played in has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the discussion.

[ExTrumpet]

10 hours ago, dalehead said:

They seem to be trying to provide a carnival atmosphere for the on site attendees. Music, entertainers, games, etc. It’s almost like two events. A county fair with a golf tournament going on next door. Might be great for the attendees but it means nothing to the TV viewer. In fact, as some have said, the music bleeding over is off putting.

 

The Byron Nelson has been doing this for years...been a great party with a golf tourney going on in the background...and Phoenix has taken it to another level.  Carnival atmospheres aren't necessarily a bad thing!

[Soloman1]

48 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You mean other than the millions for local charities and too many other differences to bother with listing? 😀

 

Did you miss the LIV statement in June donating $100 million to local charities, education, golf development and community wellbeing programs?

[bscinstnct]

I keep coming back to Sean Bratches, LIVs former Chief Commercial Officer, quitting so soon after he joined.

 

But, after seeing all the mistakes as far as how the image of this brand is evolving, you wonder if there were issues about how he saw this unfolding,

 

Sean Bratches ESPN,

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-brawn-bratches-join-sporting-and-commercial-roles.458guIHkU8o4uGagUUy4a4.html

 

Sean Bratches is credited as one of ESPN’s most influential leaders, with over 27 years of experience, most recently as Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing. His career has been defined by innovation and vision, and his contributions helped to fuel tremendous growth in ESPN's brand and revenue. Sean oversaw ESPN’s two primary revenue streams, advertising and sponsor sales and content licensing, as well as the research and analytics, marketing, consumer products and events marketing divisions.

He led a sales and marketing team that provided national advertisers access to ESPN’s premier media and marketing platforms and oversaw all content licensing for the domestic cable and satellite networks of The Walt Disney Company to its linear and emerging multi-channel affiliates. These assets included: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNEWS, ESPN Deportes, ESPNU, ESPN SEC Network, The Longhorn Network and ESPN3. He also was responsible for the distribution of related HDTV, broadband, video-on-demand, subscription video-on-demand, interactive television, pay-per-view, Spanish-language, and sports syndication products.

 

 

F1,

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/liv-golf-investments-appoints-sean-bratches-and-ron-cross-to-leadership-team-301417447.html

 

Upon Liberty Media's acquisition of Formula 1, he moved to London for three years serving as Managing Director of Commercial Operations where he transformed Formula 1 from a motorsport series into a global media and entertainment brand.

 

https://www.si.com/.amp/racing/2021/10/22/formula-one-austin-netflix-drive-to-survive-impact

 

Sean Bratches, the former managing director of commercial operations for Formula One, was “the godfather of Drive to Survive,” says Paul Martin, executive producer of the series.

 

 

 

 

[Danielson]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

I keep coming back to Sean Bratches, LIVs former Chief Commercial Officer, quitting so soon after he joined.

 

But, after seeing all the mistakes as far as how the image of this brand is evolving, you wonder if there were issues about how he saw this unfolding,

 

Sean Bratches ESPN,

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-brawn-bratches-join-sporting-and-commercial-roles.458guIHkU8o4uGagUUy4a4.html

 

Sean Bratches is credited as one of ESPN’s most influential leaders, with over 27 years of experience, most recently as Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing. His career has been defined by innovation and vision, and his contributions helped to fuel tremendous growth in ESPN's brand and revenue. Sean oversaw ESPN’s two primary revenue streams, advertising and sponsor sales and content licensing, as well as the research and analytics, marketing, consumer products and events marketing divisions.

He led a sales and marketing team that provided national advertisers access to ESPN’s premier media and marketing platforms and oversaw all content licensing for the domestic cable and satellite networks of The Walt Disney Company to its linear and emerging multi-channel affiliates. These assets included: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNEWS, ESPN Deportes, ESPNU, ESPN SEC Network, The Longhorn Network and ESPN3. He also was responsible for the distribution of related HDTV, broadband, video-on-demand, subscription video-on-demand, interactive television, pay-per-view, Spanish-language, and sports syndication products.

 

 

F1,

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/liv-golf-investments-appoints-sean-bratches-and-ron-cross-to-leadership-team-301417447.html

 

Upon Liberty Media's acquisition of Formula 1, he moved to London for three years serving as Managing Director of Commercial Operations where he transformed Formula 1 from a motorsport series into a global media and entertainment brand.

 

https://www.si.com/.amp/racing/2021/10/22/formula-one-austin-netflix-drive-to-survive-impact

 

Sean Bratches, the former managing director of commercial operations for Formula One, was “the godfather of Drive to Survive,” says Paul Martin, executive producer of the series.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. Drive to Survive has been a blessing and a curse. It's brought a huge boom of new global fans to F1, but has also amped up the high school drama and lead to some greedy decisions that long time fans don't necessarily support (parking lot street races in place of race tracks, possibly losing historic events to new ones with zero history but more money).