LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[mokedaddy]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

With the new owgr rules just announced, liv not looking good to get many points at all. Even the dp tour is barely getting them. 

 

I’d expect the us open, pga, and open keep allowing already exempt liv players to play. 
 

But the masters?

 

There may be a few empty seats at dinner next year. 

 

Yeah there is a good possibility they don’t get points at all or it takes away a couple prime years for many golfers.  
 

I can’t predict what the majors are going to do.

[doctorbloor]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

First of all, as already mentioned, that pizza looks like a travesty. 

 

But I think the pizza example was actually a parody of Bryson's comments, not that Dahmen just pulled this out of thin air...

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/690082/bryson-provides-entirely-confused-pizza-analogy-to-describe-current-situation-between-pga-tour-and-liv/

It's pretty hard to compose a good parody about an analogy that was already a parody.  Either BDC is being intentionally obtuse, or he's not as smart as his image would suggest.

[oikos1]

This whole idea that some here say "good riddance" to Cam Smith and other quality players who may leave, or who have left, is comparable to a high school breakup.  I can't believe it's still touted.  It goes against every reason why the PGA Tour is suspending players who leave.  The PGA Tour actually does care.

 

The sponsors, you know, the people who actual foot the bill for a PGA Tour event in their communities, don't want the fields to get weaker either.

 

There isn't a single venue that may have had Bryson, DJ, Reed, Smith, or Phil playing in their event in the past who are happy that they won't be playing in the future. 

 

This is the problem the PGA Tour executives have demonstrated very little ability to solve.

[mitchl]

3 minutes ago, RobS said:

Why do people keep saying the PGA Tour is banning players?  No one has been permanently barred from the PGA Tour, not yet at least.  Players have been suspended or have resigned to avoid suspension.

 

I think the players who signed on to the lawsuit will regret being Greg Norman's puppets in this fight. If this goes to trial,  the process could take years.  Players will be subject to discovery and will have the curtain pulled back on their personal business.  Who wants to go through intrusion even if you have nothing to hide?  Ortiz must have had second thoughts about that, subsequently pulling his name from the lawsuit.

 

Does anyone wonder why LIV didn't sue instead of or in addition to the players?  Honest question. Maybe the Saudis don't want to be subject to the US courts?  Either way, I think the players suing will suffer having to the dirty work.  I think the winner in this case will still lose and the loser just lose more.

 

Good points.

As for why people keep saying banned is that it supports the LIV arguments, so the LIV fans will use that.  

I suspect that people may have used the “banned for life” phrase, even possibly some of the PGA management and Majors representatives.   However, when it came down to it, the suspensions will be viewed much more favorably by the courts, and a permanent ban is much harder to defend.   Also, I do suspect that if LIV were to crash, or if players wanted to come back, then the tours probably do want to be able to have some way to bring them back.  (Especially if a player slams LIV or Norman on the way out)

 

As for why LIV didn’t sue - the players suing gets much more empathy.   However, a lot of the arguments in the lawsuit - I don’t know if it applies to the Players arguments.   How does the LIV argument work where the PGA did things to cause LIV to pay significantly more to players than they would have— how does that harm a player?   These golfers well outside the top 50 and getting tens of millions — I just don’t see how they argue any damage at all, almost all of the main players will earn more in 4 years with LIV than they did in 20 playing for the PGA, and playing significantly fewer events.

[OKMrazor]

5 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

The pga tour.  Because players that are staying are smart enough not to bad mouth the tour in public.

I don't know... not all of them seem that bright.  

[mokedaddy]

1 minute ago, wedgegame said:

 

What are they upset about? If they could bad mouth the tour what would they say?  I would like to know the truth.

You would have to talk to them yourself.  It’s not my position to repeat what is said in confidence.

[Krt22]

Just now, OKMrazor said:

I don't know... not all of them seem that bright.  

Case in point..Bryson's Pizza Parlor 

[jdl]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

With the new owgr rules just announced, liv not looking good to get many points at all. Even the dp tour is barely getting them. 

 

I’d expect the us open, pga, and open keep allowing already exempt liv players to play. 
 

But the masters?

 

There may be a few empty seats at dinner next year. 

 

Tom Kim up to #21!

 

[mokedaddy]

4 minutes ago, OKMrazor said:

I don't know... not all of them seem that bright.  

Like who?

[samwm]

12 hours ago, hacker101 said:

I spend a bunch of time on the road listening to the radio and hearing arguments from both sides.  I say that I side with the home team, but what if I was in one of defectors shoes? I’ve tried to come up with an analogy that makes sense to me. The money associated with Liv is not something I can put in perspective. It may not be completely to financial scale, but here it goes.

 

I’m in the construction and ag equipment sales business. Very competitive market, unpredictable schedule and hours, but if I perform well, it can be a good living. For the sake of argument and simple math, say I make $100k per year. A competitor comes along with a new product. They offer me a five year contract plus $1m signing bonus. 

The product is good and so cheap that there is no possible way it’s profitable. Doesn’t matter…..I can’t  lose. They are still going to pay me at least double or more than what I was making with my old job and I work 1/3 less hours.  All life changing stuff. Seems like that would be very hard to turn down. Good for me and my family. Nothing illegal about it. 
 

The catch is, I only sell to the farms that have been recently purchased and are now operated by foreign countries right next to all my friends, neighbors and former customers. Would taking the easy money be worth losing what credibility and good name that I had earned among my peers and possibly hurting the local farmers ability to compete? 
 

I’d like to say I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror

 

I agree with several of the things you've argued for here. 

 

But I would argue that LIV has, so far, proven to be a net positive for both aspiring and existing Tour pros:

 

- The Tour has rethought their qualifying process and will now offer tour cards to the top 5 + ties.

- The top 10 on the DP are now being offered full PGA Tour status.

- The Tour has announced an 8-event, no cut, 20mm purse series. This is split across the top 50 FedEx ranked-players.

- More broadly, the Tour has increased both tournament and bonus purses, across the board. Overall available purses are up $165mm in two years... 

 

Broad strokes, more players will be able to play at the highest level. And, once there, those players will be competing for larger prize pools, and more generous sponsorship deals.

 

I'd like to toe the line here, and I understand the politically charged nature of this debate. 

 

However, I don't understand those who paint this as a net negative for any PGA Tour player. They now have the chance to make more money than ever before. And that is, largely, because LIV forced the Tour's hand. 

 

 

[mitchl]

6 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

There is no bad press when it comes to LIV, anything to keep them in the press when they aren't having events. Why they slow roll players out ect. 

 

If Cam is a done deal, he should just say this is my last PGAT season, after the Presidents Cup I'm going to LIV. Instead we'll have to dog and pony show press conference that is uncomfortable. 

 

LIV is dumb, just say who have signed on for next year. 

 

I am not convinced at all that Cam Smith is going in 2022.   

If you're in the LIV office trying to get OWGR rankings, you DO NOT want Cam or any top 20 player coming now.   You want to keep them safely in the PGA and keeping those rankings up until the LIV tournaments get ranked.    

If that does happen in June (it has been said it might be one year from the application) - then if Cam were to leave now, he will go from #2 to outside the top 15.    If you can bring him in while he is still in the top 5 next summer, the Strength of Field is greatly enhanced - essentially today, One Cam is like 37 Phil Mickelsons  in the Strength of Field calculations.

 

The golfers in LIV now who are still in the top 50 will likely be out of the top 50 by next summer (DJ for example dropped from #2 to #17 from Dec 2021 to June 2022).   If DJ or Ancer are still in the top 50, it won’t be by too much.   

 

So if you don’t see Cam Smith or Hidecki in LIV by November, I don’t know if either side can take anything good or bad by that.

[wedgegame]

7 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

You would have to talk to them yourself.  It’s not my position to repeat what is said in confidence.

 

OK.  Always some nefarious plot with no specifics, but really trust me guys it's happening.  I can't say anything about because, you know... reasons, but you can bet there is some really nasty stuff going on and no one is happy.  When the truth, that I know but can't disclose, comes out one day it's going to blow your mind.  It's not like I am on anonymous message board, or that I can sum their complains in some generalities that doesn't identify them in anyway, but believe the true is out and it's really bad. 

[mokedaddy]

3 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

 

OK.  Always some nefarious plot with no specifics, but really trust me guys it's happening.  I can't say anything about because, you know... reasons, but you can bet there is some really nasty stuff going on and no one is happy.  When the truth, that I know but can't disclose, comes out one day it's going to blow your mind.  It's not like I am on anonymous message board, or that I can sum their complains in some generalities that doesn't identify them in anyway, but believe the true is out and it's really bad. 

All I said was I hope the truth comes out.  You are the one making it sound nefarious lol.

 

I literally said none of that hyperbole that you added.

Edited August 9, 2022 by mokedaddy

[physasst]

48 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

Again, Bryson was not banned, he was suspended. Was it for trying to actively recruit PGAT members to LIV? 

And, as far as I know, he was NOT suspended until he teed it up. They were warned that they would be, but until you actually commit the act, you can't be suspended. 

 

M

[idrive]

17 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

You would have to talk to them yourself.  It’s not my position to repeat what is said in confidence.

 

4 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

All I said was I hope the truth comes out.  You are the one making it sound nefarious lol.

 

You sure?

[wedgegame]

3 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

You are the one making it sound nefarious lol.

 

OK

 

40 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

the tour isn’t the squeaky clean entity people seem to think it is.  

 

[oikos1]

Here's one to contemplate:

 

Rory's 2022 Schedule:

 

Results:

Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship (Yas Links) 12
Dubai Desert Classic (Emirates) 3
Genesis Invitational (Riviera) T10
Arnold Palmer Invitational (Bay Hill) T13
The Players Championship (TPC Sawgrass) T33
Valero Texas Open (TPC San Antonio) MC
The Masters (Augusta National) 2
Wells Fargo Championship (TPC Potomac) 5
PGA Championship (Southern Hills) 8
Memorial Tournament (Muirfield Village) T18
Canadian Open (St George’s) WON
US Open (The Country Club) T5
Travelers Championship (TC River Highlands) T19
JP McManus Pro-AM (Adare Manor) T6
The Open (St Andrews) 3

 

Rory plays in roughly 25% of PGA Tour run events.  The poster boy for the PGA Tour and he only plays in 25% of the 40 some events.

 

The Tour can only get one of their best to play 25% of their events yet believe they can tell golfers when and where to play?  This is why they should have found a workable situation with LIV. 

 

With the pending lawsuit, this is just the beginning of the little secrets the PGA Tour tries to keep quiet.

 

[mokedaddy]

1 minute ago, wedgegame said:

 

OK

 

 

Wow nefarious equals not squeaky clean.  Learn something new everyday.

[mokedaddy]

2 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

 

You sure?

Positive 

[aus10KC]

17 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

You would have to talk to them yourself.  It’s not my position to repeat what is said in confidence.

 

If the tour is that dirty, why haven't past (LIV) players said anything, many journalists covering the tour I'm sure would keep them anonymous. Or is this just players complaining like I do with my job?

 

I hear players in interviews mention it isn't perfect and that many times the feel like their voices aren't heard. 

[mokedaddy]

1 minute ago, aus10KC said:

 

If the tour is that dirty, why haven't past (LIV) players said anything, many journalists covering the tour I'm sure would keep them anonymous. Or is this just players complaining like I do with my job?

 

I hear players in interviews mention it isn't perfect and that many times the feel like their voices aren't heard. 

That dirty isn’t in the same ballpark as not squeaky clean.  Nobody said it’s a crime family but I forgot the internet is serious business 

[wedgegame]

4 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

Learn something new everyday.

Definitely learned how to backpedal. 

[OKMrazor]

2 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

The poster boy for the PGA Tour and he only plays in 25% of the 40 some events.

 

The Tour can only get one of their best to play 25% of their events yet believe they can tell golfers when and where to play? 

 

This is a contradiction in logic.  The tour doesn't appear to be demanding when and where golfers play - if so, they'd have their star front a center more often, which clearly he doesn't want.  Conversely, LIV golfers (as I understand it - haven't seen their contracts) are contractually obligated to play when and where their employers (LIV) tell them to play.    

[jmck]

11 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

 

OK.  Always some nefarious plot with no specifics, but really trust me guys it's happening.  I can't say anything about because, you know... reasons, but you can bet there is some really nasty stuff going on and no one is happy.  When the truth, that I know but can't disclose, comes out one day it's going to blow your mind.  It's not like I am on anonymous message board, or that I can sum their complains in some generalities that doesn't identify them in anyway, but believe the true is out and it's really bad. 

There's one in every thread.  The guy with the super hot girlfriend.  But she lives in Canada.  You wouldn't know her.

[mokedaddy]

3 hours ago, wedgegame said:

Definitely learned how to backpedal. 

Lol.  Or you tried to make a mountain out of mole hill.  

Edited August 9, 2022 by mokedaddy

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

 

 

Rory plays in roughly 25% of PGA Tour run events.  The poster boy for the PGA Tour and he only plays in 25% of the 40 some events.

 

The Tour can only get one of their best to play 25% of their events yet believe they can tell golfers when and where to play?  This is why they should have found a workable situation with LIV. 

 

 

There are 48 tour evens every year, players are only required to play in 15. Why is this surprising? 

 

The tour does not tell players when and where to play, they give them 48 options to choose from.

[jdl]

20 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

Like who?

Gooch

[wedgegame]

Just now, mokedaddy said:

Lol.  Or you tried to make a mountain out of mole hill.  

Since you know you could clear it up for us all, but wait...

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, jdl said:

Gooch

To be fair, he is no longer playing on the PGA tour lol

Edited August 9, 2022 by Krt22

[jplroper]

25 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Case in point..Bryson's Pizza Parlor 

  Could we please quit picking on Pizza