LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[idrive]

9 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

No, I kind of kept my response contained to the topic being discussed which was what was going on on the grounds at the time of the tournament.

 

Before covid, for the last 20 years we (wife and I) would pick out 5-6 PGAT events to go to each year.

 

Seems there was always a presence of the charity(s) represented there they were supporting for that particular Tourny.

 

6 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Did you miss the LIV statement in June donating $100 million to local charities, education, golf development and community wellbeing programs?

 

Like they say, seeing is believing.

 

They still have a long way to go to catch up to the over $6 billion the PGAT has donated.

 

[cardia10]

42 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Based on what evidence?

 

The players know darn well what the Commissioner makes and I'm sure they can readily compare their annual and lifetime earnings, lol.  He and Finchem before him (and Tiger) is why they are rich.

 

What happened with a few events over many years that Sam Snead played in has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the discussion.

Based on Forbes article about the tour, salaries and non profit status. He has repeatedly not been honest with players according to them. The tour still touts Snead like he holds all of these records but he played in the time pre tour and played almost a different game. The tour is the one that still holds onto him as seen in their own record books. I spoke to multiple players at the Open in St Andrews and they said they don't trust tour leadership and believes they have been dishonest about purses increasing suddenly after LIV. For anyone to suggest the current leadership has done anything to increase purses has never talked to a PGA player. They all admit purses would have increased, but Tiger drove the sponsorship money and purses to what they are today. A drunk gorilla could have sat at the top and not messed that up.

 

The whole argument for and against LIV is pretty clear cut. Most of the over 45 crowd is against it because music, fun, alternate formats and most of the under 45 crowd loves it because, music, fun and alternate formats. The game is stale and there are only so many ways it can revived. On the course there isn't much that can be changed but around and off the course there can be change. It is very much the Not In My Back Yard argument. Hard to also argue sponsorship as both the PGA and LPGA utilizes those same sources.

Edited August 3, 2022 by cardia10

[cardia10]

36 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Wonder why ... the OWGR started in 1986. What was Snead's ranking ? 

The way the Pga Tour markets him and his records, you would think he is still in the top 150.

[idrive]

19 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

 

 possibly losing historic events to new ones with zero history but more money).

 

Uummm...

 

4 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

The way the Pga Tour markets him and his records, you would think he is still in the top 150.

 

No, you would potentially think he was the best golfer from his era.

[SheriffBooth]

[TM4me]

If the LIV "Stars" cannot beat these 2nd string fields how are they ever going to compete in majors again - if they are allowed to participate that is.

 

It seems the LIV "Stars" aren't concerned about winning so why would/should I care?

[cardia10]

4 minutes ago, SheriffBooth said:

Yep, and from his current PGA Profile page...this may get shifted to the distance debate...lol

235.3

DRIVING DISTANCE

941

Total Distance

4

Total Drives

--

66.67%

DRIVING ACCURACY PERCENTAGE

18

Fairways Hit

27

Possible Fairways

--

55.56%

GREENS IN REGULATION PERCENTAGE

20

Greens Hit

36

# Holes

--

1.00

BIRDIE AVERAGE

2

# of Birdies

2

Total Rounds

--

75.500

SCORING AVERAGE

151

Total Strokes

--

.00%

SAND SAVE PERCENTAGE

0

# Saves

2

# Bunkers

[Soloman1]

15 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

They still have a long way to go to catch up to the over $6 billion the PGAT has donated.

 

 

It’s $3 billion lifetime, not $6 billion from local tournaments.

 

Did you know that the PGA Tour, including all local tournament charities, account for only 0.5% of all charity money raised through golf events yearly in the US?

 

99.5% of golf-related charity money is raised by amateurs participating in local scrambles and other tournaments.

[cardia10]

1 minute ago, Soloman1 said:

 

It’s $3 billion lifetime, not $6 billion from local tournaments.

 

Did you know that the PGA Tour, including all local tournament charities, account for only 0.5% of all charity money raised through golf events yearly in the US?

 

99.5% of golf-related charity money is raised by amateurs participating in local scrambles and other tournaments.

This 100% Golfers grow the game organically, not the Tour or any tour.

[idrive]

12 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

It’s $3 billion lifetime, not $6 billion from local tournaments.

 

 

That's what happens when the 3 and 6 keys are too close together and not flagged as being spelled wrong...

 

or I could use the excuse my mom would.. stupid computer, must be something wrong with it... 

[Soloman1]

LIV and the PGA Tour are both just entertainment. Professional golfers travel the world on “Entertainer” visas.

 

Just like other sports, music, movies, different auto racing, rodeos and carnivals, people have different tastes in what entertainment they like to watch or attend.

 

I don’t know of any fans of any entertainment who get paid for their fandom.

 

I say watch what entertains you.

[Ghost of Snead]

25 minutes ago, SheriffBooth said:

 

OK to talk about him this week since he won the GGO 8 times and became the oldest PGA Tour winner ever.

[bscinstnct]

7 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

LIV and the PGA Tour are both just entertainment. Professional golfers travel the world on “Entertainer” visas.

 

Just like other sports, music, movies, different auto racing, rodeos and carnivals, people have different tastes in what entertainment they like to watch or attend.

 

I don’t know of any fans of any entertainment who get paid for their fandom.

 

I say watch what entertains you.

 

Yo, S1. Just curious, have you been watching the events? And to what extent?

 

I have tuned in but so far, strictly as far as sporting events/entertainment, they don’t hold my interest more than 10 minutes or so. 

[sociojeje]

I very much enjoyed the battle between PGA and LIV. After the last event, it becomes too political and sadly turns me off. I watched every final round of LIV and enjoyed very much. Now I feel like I am losing interest in watching golf, including PGA, after all... 

[Soloman1]

17 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yo, S1. Just curious, have you been watching the events? And to what extent?

 

I have tuned in but so far, strictly as far as sporting events/entertainment, they don’t hold my interest more than 10 minutes or so. 

 

Like you, I did watch about 10 minutes on YouTube, but wasn’t that interested other than to see the difference in coverage. The scoreboard and teams thing we’re both kind of, “So what?”

 

I think we all like seeing great shots.

 

Full disclosure: I only watch the last nine of majors live, just “because.” Kind of like basketball - last basket wins!

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

 

Before covid, for the last 20 years we (wife and I) would pick out 5-6 PGAT events to go to each year.

 

Seems there was always a presence of the charity(s) represented there they were supporting for that particular Tourny.

 

 

That is just super.  Has little to do with the "carnival atmosphere" though don't you think?  Probably pretty unlikely to have an impact on playing conditions for the players too.

[getitdaily]

18 hours ago, khalespace said:

P Reed is playing in Singapore this week with the purse at $1.5 mil and winning prize $280k. Why would he do this? Is he trying to stay in the top 50 for the majors, currently 46. Is he getting appearance fee?

His family lives in Asia. He's just trying to spend time with them.

[capking]

I’ve watched most of the LIV rounds, it’s been pretty good. It’s harder to channel surf when you have to reopen the YouTube app, kind of annoying. But the weeks they’ve picked to host it have been PGA weeks where there was a 0% chance I was going to watch the limited field. 
Obviously peoples opinions have changed on some of the guys that went over, but they have 5 players that I enjoy watching. For me it’s been better since I get to see way more golf during the coverage as well.

[subrew]

17 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Just realized the next 3 US liv events take place vs full slates of Saturday college football games. 
 

 

 

Aren't there half a dozen PGAT events this fall that will butt up against college football on Saturdays and the NFL on Sundays?  And iirc, the PGAT announced a new series of fall events for 2023 that would do the same.  

 

It feels like selective outrage sometimes.  Or trying to "wegothim" moments at every little thing.  

 

YT views were down.  LIV is done!

 

Google searches are down.  LIV is done!

 

Fall events will be up against college football (but so are PGAT events.)  LIV is done!

 

I'm not sure LIV is going to be dying off in 6 months time, from small papercuts.  It is likely going to be much bigger things, that take a year or three to play out.  Or they tinker, evolve, and in three years time we have LIV and PGAT doing their own respective thing, and they meet up four times a year at majors. 

 

This thread was doing good for the first couple pages, but has devolved back into page 450 of the previous thread.  

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by subrew

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, TM4me said:

If the LIV "Stars" cannot beat these 2nd string fields how are they ever going to compete in majors again - if they are allowed to participate that is.

 

It seems the LIV "Stars" aren't concerned about winning so why would/should I care?

 

[jdl]

1 hour ago, cardia10 said:

 

The whole argument for and against LIV is pretty clear cut. Most of the over 45 crowd is against it because music, fun, alternate formats and most of the under 45 crowd loves it because, music, fun and alternate formats. The game is stale and there are only so many ways it can revived. On the course there isn't much that can be changed but around and off the course there can be change. It is very much the Not In My Back Yard argument. Hard to also argue sponsorship as both the PGA and LPGA utilizes those same sources.

You are correct the PGA Tour events are pretty stale, but moving to 54 hole, no cut, limited field events isn't an improvement at all. That's basically a watered down version of the WGC tournaments which have mostly been a snooze-fest. The match play event is a nice alternative format though.

[jdl]

4 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

Aren't there half a dozen PGAT events this fall that will butt up against college football on Saturdays and the NFL on Sundays?  And iirc, the PGAT announced a new series of fall events for 2023 that would do the same.  

 

It feels like selective outrage sometimes.  Or trying to "wegothim" moments at every little thing.  

 

YT views were down.  LIV is done!

 

Google searches are down.  LIV is done!

 

Fall events will be up against college football (but so are PGAT events.)  LIV is done!

 

I'm not sure LIV is going to be dying off in 6 months time, from small papercuts.  It is likely going to be much bigger things, that take a year or three to play out.  Or they tinker, evolve, and in three years time we have LIV and PGAT doing their own respective thing, and they meet up four times a year at majors. 

 

This thread was doing good for the first couple pages, but has devolved back into page 450 of the previous thread.  

 

 

I guess you missed the whole change to the schedule a few years back where they compressed all the majors + Players so the playoffs could finish before football starts up? The tour knows they can't compete for viewers vs football, LIV can't either.

 

So "what about" doesn't really work here.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

Like they say, seeing is believing.

 

They still have a long way to go to catch up to the over $6 billion the PGAT has donated.

 

Logic dictates that a close to one hundred year old organization (1929, or 55 year old if you prefer 1968) is going to have a bit of a head start on an organization that is less than two years old and operating in the red at the moment.

 

If you would like to see, there are pictures of giant cheques written by LIV that were from the Centurion event.  Not sure what else is floating out there.

[bscinstnct]

9 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

Aren't there half a dozen PGAT events this fall that will butt up against college football on Saturdays and the NFL on Sundays?  And iirc, the PGAT announced a new series of fall events for 2023 that would do the same.  

 

It feels like selective outrage sometimes.  Or trying to "wegothim" moments at every little thing.  

 

YT views were down.  LIV is done!

 

Google searches are down.  LIV is done!

 

Fall events will be up against college football (but so are PGAT events.)  LIV is done!

 

I'm not sure LIV is going to be dying off in 6 months time, from small papercuts.  It is likely going to be much bigger things, that take a year or three to play out.  Or they tinker, evolve, and in three years time we have LIV and PGAT doing their own respective thing, and they meet up four times a year at majors. 

 

This thread was doing good for the first couple pages, but has devolved back into page 450 of the previous thread.  

 

 

 

subrew! How you “unpack” all that out of me saying,

 

 

“Just realized the next 3 US liv events take place vs full slates of Saturday college football games. “

 

Thats just pointing out the facts on the ground. As it is when I mention google trends or YouTube views. 
 

I’m genuinely shocked that signing BK, BD, Reed, Stenson, etc hasn’t budged the interest at all. 
 

That said, if the views jack up to 350k and more, I’ll be the first to agree that’s excellent. 
 

And I agree 100% with your 2nd to last paragraph there. 

 

[SheriffBooth]

Thread cleaned up.  Reminder that discussion of politics, including fund sourcing, are not permitted.  We are trying to keep this thread open without having to go back to moderating every post.

 

I also note that a number of members responded or replied to a post that ran counter to the site rules and what I posted at the start of the thread.  If you want to keep the thread open, it is really important that instead of replying in the thread, you use the Report button instead.  Replying just increases our cleanup work, and makes it more likely that the thread will go back onto permanent moderator review.

[Chrysalis99]

19 hours ago, subrew said:

 

I might be totally done with LIV by event 6.  But so far we've enjoyed having it up on the YT app on the big screen, and not watching any boner pill or wealth management commercials every six minutes.  

You win the internet today. 🤪

[dalehead]

1 hour ago, ExTrumpet said:

 

The Byron Nelson has been doing this for years...been a great party with a golf tourney going on in the background...and Phoenix has taken it to another level.  Carnival atmospheres aren't necessarily a bad thing!

I don’t disagree. My point is what ever is going on at the site may be great for the fans in attendance but it does nothing for the TV (streaming) viewer. LIV’s success will depend on the product they put out on the air and for some the music degrades that product.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, TM4me said:

If the LIV "Stars" cannot beat these 2nd string fields how are they ever going to compete in majors again - if they are allowed to participate that is.

 

It seems the LIV "Stars" aren't concerned about winning so why would/should I care?

Because you can watch a whole lot of commercial free hit and giggle on youtube

[golfday]

3 minutes ago, dalehead said:

I don’t disagree. My point is what ever is going on at the site may be great for the fans in attendance but it does nothing for the TV (streaming) viewer. LIV’s success will depend on the product they put out on the air and for some the music degrades that product.

This is very true. The SEC and Big10 aren't making way more money than every other conference because of how many butts they put in the seat, it's because of the eyeballs on screens and TV deals. Their gate money advantage is miniscule compared to their TV money.

[Frankensteins Monster]

15 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

His 5-year exemptions have expired for the US Open, PGA & Open Championship. Solely OWGR points as he wants to stay in the top-60. He might have to beg Tiger to play in the Hero.