LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[jimecherry]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

They’ll be completely shutout this year. Active liv players have only won 3 of the 14 majors played since LIV’s formation.

more damning is that SS and Xander are about to have 5 of the last 8 and no chance theyll take the pif bag of money.

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

They’ll be completely shutout this year. Active liv players have only won 3 of the 14 majors played since LIV’s formation.

And that makes it sound better than it is.  An ACTIVE LIV player has won two majors by my count.  Koepka and BDC. Rahm and Smith both won their majors before joining LIV.

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, jimecherry said:

more damning is that SS and Xander are about to have 5 of the last 8 and no chance theyll take the pif bag of money.

Xander probably would have taken it had LIV been able to offer OWGR points, at least according to his father

Edited July 20 by Holy Moses

[Mr.Cleeks]

1 hour ago, jimecherry said:

more damning is that SS and Xander are about to have 5 of the last 8 and no chance theyll take the pif bag of money.

Scottie made $60m last year and will probably be around $50ish million this year. The guy is making bank rn

[Mr.Cleeks]

50 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

And that makes it sound better than it is.  An ACTIVE LIV player has won two majors by my count.  Koepka and BDC. Rahm and Smith both won their majors before joining LIV.

I feel like Rahm is gonna look at 2024/25 as a wasted years.

[Hawkeye77]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I feel like Rahm is gonna look at 2024/25 as a wasted years.

 

I doubt he's touched the principal on his 1/2 billion plus. 😉 

[idrive]

So when is someone going to start the “what’s wrong with Rahm” thread?

 

Smith reminds me of the old Stevie Miller song…. Go on… take the money and run. 

yeah, yeah yeah. 🤣 

[jdl]

5 minutes ago, idrive said:

So when is someone going to start the “what’s wrong with Rahm” thread?

 

 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Scottie made $60m last year and will probably be around $50ish million this year. The guy is making bank rn

Of course then so was Phil.  Although I’m guessing SS doesn’t play as loosely with his money.

[Mr.Cleeks]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Of course then so was Phil.  Although I’m guessing SS doesn’t play as loosely with his money.

Unless Scottie lives a crazy double life, I doubt he’s touched much of that $100M or whatever he’s made. 

[SnowbirdTom]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Of course then so was Phil.  Although I’m guessing SS doesn’t play as loosely with his money.

 

Phil should have just burned his.  I'd think SS has a real financial advisor on speed dial,  not a bookie or three. 🙄

[Titleist99]

12 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Scottie made $60m last year and will probably be around $50ish million this year. The guy is making bank rn

 

Golfers are greedy. How's a man supposed to feed his family off that? 🤣

[Titleist99]

12 hours ago, jdl said:

Nah. Everyone is wishing that Rahm double bogey on every hole.🤣

 

I kid, no one wishes bad play for a golfer.

[Mr.Cleeks]

[Holy Moses]

 

“54 holes”

[WesternRacing]

2 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

 

“54 holes”

 

🤣  How pathetic is it for LIV to post that?  Reach much?

 

If anything this is LIV highlighting why they shouldn’t get OWGR points, because 54 holes does not a tournament make.

 

 

Edited July 20 by WesternRacing

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

 

“54 holes”

Well they're desperate for any kind of attention. 

[bscinstnct]

8 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

 

“54 holes”

 

This ain’t exactly stellar PR

 

Is like,

 

Uh, yeah, that’s what you get for only playing 54-hole events 

 

🤣

 

 

[Danielson]

On 7/19/2025 at 7:22 PM, Mr.Cleeks said:

They’ll be completely shutout this year. Active liv players have only won 3 of the 14 majors played since LIV’s formation.

 

I'm not about to take a victory lap on LIV guys, because there are still a large handful who I would be 0% surprised to see win any given major... but THIS is what people were talking about when wondering if guys would fall off. It was never a concern that they would suddenly and immediately forget how to play golf. It was a question of whether they could continue to keep that edge and grind that extra 1% in a sport where the margins are slimmer than they've ever been.

 

Cam Smith has allegedly always not been about that life, outside of 2022 where he was reportedly practicing harder than he ever had, so he's not exactly representative. Still, it seems like 2-3 guys are actually better since going to LIV and the rest have lost a tiny step.

[Mr.Cleeks]

1 minute ago, Danielson said:

 

I'm not about to take a victory lap on LIV guys, because there are still a large handful who I would be 0% surprised to see win any given major... but THIS is what people were talking about when wondering if guys would fall off. It was never a concern that they would suddenly and immediately forget how to play golf. It was a question of whether they could continue to keep that edge and grind that extra 1% in a sport where the margins are slimmer than they've ever been.

 

Cam Smith has allegedly always not been about that life, outside of 2022 where he was reportedly practicing harder than he ever had, so he's not exactly representative. Still, it seems like 2-3 guys are actually better since going to LIV and the rest have lost a tiny step.

I respect Rahm and Bryson so much for continuing to show up and grind it out at these majors.

[Danielson]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I respect Rahm and Bryson so much for continuing to show up and grind it out at these majors.

 

I put Hatton and Niemann in that group too. Results aren't there as much, but you can see both of them still putting in work. 

[Mr.Cleeks]

29 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

I put Hatton and Niemann in that group too. Results aren't there as much, but you can see both of them still putting in work. 

For sure. I think Hatton has actually elevated his game since joining LIV. 3 top 20 finishes in the majors this year and a win in Dubai 

[smashdn]

Question about media rights.  And what spurred this was I was perusing youtubes and saw a PM video on chipping "brought to you by PM and The HyFlyers" and a The Golfer's Journal video from Brad Faxon.  I did not know that Brad Faxon was not an active member of the Champions Tour.

 

The question, would both of these videos been not allowed by the PGA Tour before or if not, not allowed, the revenue (if it exists) from these videos or rights, would have been owned by the PGAT and that was the major gripe that PM had about "media rights?"

 

And then that question leads to another, how is that different or how was it handled back when Golf Digest had "player editors" or whatever they were called where players provided articles or snippets on instruction?

[betarhoalphadelta]

21 minutes ago, smashdn said:

Question about media rights.  And what spurred this was I was perusing youtubes and saw a PM video on chipping "brought to you by PM and The HyFlyers" and a The Golfer's Journal video from Brad Faxon.  I did not know that Brad Faxon was not an active member of the Champions Tour.

 

The question, would both of these videos been not allowed by the PGA Tour before or if not, not allowed, the revenue (if it exists) from these videos or rights, would have been owned by the PGAT and that was the major gripe that PM had about "media rights?"

 

And then that question leads to another, how is that different or how was it handled back when Golf Digest had "player editors" or whatever they were called where players provided articles or snippets on instruction?

 

Page 143...

 

 

That's the 2025 handbook BTW. Similar/identical language to what I remember from a couple years ago when it was discussed in these LIV threads.

 

So basically anything that's not wholly instructional, which one would think would be the case of most golf-related programming on YouTube (with the exception of things like Paddy's Golf Tips), require the PGA Tour's written consent. The PGA Tour may not in all cases require the player to pay a "right's fee" to get said consent, but as we know with The Match if Phil is to be believed, it's a right they've exercised in the past.  

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

Question about media rights.  And what spurred this was I was perusing youtubes and saw a PM video on chipping "brought to you by PM and The HyFlyers" and a The Golfer's Journal video from Brad Faxon.  I did not know that Brad Faxon was not an active member of the Champions Tour.

 

The question, would both of these videos been not allowed by the PGA Tour before or if not, not allowed, the revenue (if it exists) from these videos or rights, would have been owned by the PGAT and that was the major gripe that PM had about "media rights?"

 

And then that question leads to another, how is that different or how was it handled back when Golf Digest had "player editors" or whatever they were called where players provided articles or snippets on instruction?

Was Phil’s video showing footage of him chipping during a LIV tournament round or practice round? Phil doesn’t have his own YouTube channel like Bryson does. Phil’s is “Phil Mickelson and the HyFlyers” and it’s a LIV-owned (or partially-owned) YouTube page. Bryson has no LIV content on his personal YouTube page; Bryson’s LIV content is on the Crushers team page. All LIV tournament content (and probably non-tournament content) can only be on Fox, the LIV stations, or the team stations. 
 

Phil thought the PGA Tour was sitting on $20 billion of media rights that players should have been getting a cut of. NFTs were probably not negotiated for and he wants a cut of them. NFTs have lost a ton of their value since Phil’s comments a few years ago though. Many are down 90%, which is why you normally never take Phil's bets. Phil also thought that players should be able to own or sell or profit by selling their media footage made during PGA Tour tournaments. If the PGA Tour allowed that, their rights deals would be decreased with the networks and so would the purses. What is odd is that Phil went to LIV and still has no personal media rights; he’s just getting paid more. Which you could say is the trade-off to Phil for no personal media rights. But then again LIV is losing a billion a year to pay the LIV stars what they think they are worth. The LIV players all say they are oh so happy on LIV, but that’s only because the PIF is underwriting a billion in losses every year. Phil thought that the players were the engine that drove media rights, but we have all come to realize that the league needs the players and the players need the league. LIV has players, but no league and that's why they will lose a billion a year until they stop giving Rahm and Phil and DJ and Brooks $30-50 million a year with their current puny ratings. 

PGA Tour players can make all the instructional videos and articles they want on their personal time off-course (as long as it does not air during a live PGA Tour event) which is what I thought the “Player Editors” was. I’m not sure what the media agreements were for Golf Digest back in the day, but credentialed media members can currently only produce media during PGA Tour tournament weeks on-course for news and editorial use (with plenty of restrictions). But the PGA Tour owns and sells tournament week media rights, which means pretty much no filming and distributing can be done by players, media members, or anyone else other than the official PGA Tour media partners. This is to protect those who the PGA Tour has sold media rights to (Golf Channel, ESPN, NBC, CBS, Discovery…). 

 

Here’s a recent PGA Tour media regulation list: https://pgatourmedia.pgatourhq.com/static-assets/page/header/files/media-regulations-2020-september.pdf.

 

 

Edited July 21 by Holy Moses

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

I put Hatton and Niemann in that group too. Results aren't there as much, but you can see both of them still putting in work. 

 

Hatton has had great results.

[smashdn]

1 minute ago, Holy Moses said:

Was Phil’s video showing footage of him chipping during a LIV tournament round or practice round?

 

I didn't watch it.  It was like an hour and ten minutes long.  I am no stranger to shirking work to peruse the innerwebs but even I have my limits.

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

I'm not about to take a victory lap on LIV guys, because there are still a large handful who I would be 0% surprised to see win any given major... but THIS is what people were talking about when wondering if guys would fall off. It was never a concern that they would suddenly and immediately forget how to play golf. It was a question of whether they could continue to keep that edge and grind that extra 1% in a sport where the margins are slimmer than they've ever been.

 

Cam Smith has allegedly always not been about that life, outside of 2022 where he was reportedly practicing harder than he ever had, so he's not exactly representative. Still, it seems like 2-3 guys are actually better since going to LIV and the rest have lost a tiny step.

 

Overall, it is simply a fact that most LIV players have had their games suffer and the proof is in the majors and other events they play in that blend with Tours.  Cam Smith is 100% representative, you can't just excuse him.  Some have clearly checked out.

 

A few are competitive, may win some big events, but overall, with the exception of Hatton and Bryson haven't met or exceeded what would be reasonable expectations for them.  Rahm would be better and perform better in these events if he was playing actual competitive golf - he's almost, almost, said so.  

 

So "lost a tiny step"? Big steps!

[Holy Moses]

8 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I didn't watch it.  It was like an hour and ten minutes long.  I am no stranger to shirking work to peruse the innerwebs but even I have my limits.

I think I remember that one now. It was on the HyFlyers channel, so it is owned by LIV. 

[BSI99]

14 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Was Phil’s video showing footage of him chipping during a LIV tournament round or practice round? Phil doesn’t have his own YouTube channel like Bryson does. Phil’s is “Phil Mickelson and the HyFlyers” and it’s a LIV-owned (or partially-owned) YouTube page. Bryson has no LIV content on his personal YouTube page; Bryson’s LIV content is on the Crushers team page. All LIV tournament content (and probably non-tournament content) can only be on Fox, the LIV stations, or the team stations. 
 

Phil thinks the PGA Tour is sitting on $20 billion of media rights that players should be getting a cut of. NFTs were probably not negotiated for and he wants a cut of them. NFTs have lost a ton of their value since Phil’s comments a few years ago though. Many are down 90%. Phil also thought that players should be able to own or sell or profit by selling their media footage made during PGA Tour tournaments. If the PGA Tour allowed that, their rights deals would be decreased with the networks and so would the purses. What is odd is that Phil went to LIV and still has no personal media rights; he’s just getting paid more. Which you could say is the trade-off to Phil for no personal media rights. But then again LIV is losing a billion a year to pay the LIV stars what they think they are worth. The LIV players all say they are oh so happy on LIV, but that’s only because the PIF is underwriting a billion in losses every year. Phil thought that the players were the engine that drove media rights, but we have all come to realize that the league needs the players and the players need the league. LIV has players, but no league and that's why they will lose a billion a year until they stop giving Rahm and Phil and DJ and Brooks $30-50 million a year with their current puny ratings. 

PGA Tour players can make all the videos and articles they want on their personal time off-course which is what I thought the “Player Editors” was. I’m not sure what the media agreements were for Golf Digest back in the day, but credentialed media members can currently only produce media during PGA Tour tournament weeks on-course for news and editorial use (with plenty of restrictions). But the PGA Tour owns and sells tournament week media rights, which means pretty much no filming and distributing can be done by players, media members, or anyone else other than the official PGA Tour media partners. This is to protect those who the PGA Tour has sold media rights to (Golf Channel, ESPN, NBC, CBS, Discovery…). 

 

Here’s a recent PGA Tour media regulation list: https://pgatourmedia.pgatourhq.com/static-assets/page/header/files/media-regulations-2020-september.pdf.

 

 

I thought LIV owned a portion of Bryson's youtube? At least I thought I heard that rumor.