Favourite insert - polymer vs. copper vs. carbon vs..... ??

[pmcuk]

How do you rate the putter face inserts you've played with?

 

Polymer.... copper..... carbon..... aluminium..... anything else?

 

What's your most liked and least liked? 

 

Any DIY or replacement experiences?

[MachineHack]

What do you like your face to feel like? 
 

My personal favourite right now is this deep mill I did in my anser 3 MnBr in terms of “feel”. It’s got a very soft feel without being too dud.

 

i went a bit lighter on the cut on my anser 4 400 stainless, it’s not as soft with a bit more click. But really I like it as well too. 
 

there’s pretty much endless combinations of what a face can feel like  with different poly shore hardnesses and then various depths and distances on face milling. A lot of the various combos can feel very similar, but the sound is just a bit different. 

 

My personal preference would go 

 

poly< Aluminium < stainless and carbon < copper alloys 

 

so subjective tho! There’s no right or wrong anser! 

[pmcuk]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I've been playing Seemore FGPs for a while and that's a mid to deeper thunk sound. OK with me. I don't mind experimenting with the sound, as you found yourself, but the shore hardness would have some bearing on the length of putt I'm assuming, together with weight and other factors. 

 

One thing about inserts that interests me is the weight of them. Since I play 33" to 34" max I like around 360g in the head for the swing-weight I'm used to, which would be somewhere around D4-E1. So I'm very curious to experiment with swapping inserts in cheap but decent older and generally lighter putters to see if a copper insert gives me 360g in the head. If copper is too heavy it could be used in a sandwich with aluminium behind it. A heavier insert would add weight lower down than using tungsten powder in the shaft with a cork, and avoids lead tape which looks awful. 

[MachineHack]

17 minutes ago, pmcuk said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I've been playing Seemore FGPs for a while and that's a mid to deeper thunk sound. OK with me. I don't mind experimenting with the sound, as you found yourself, but the shore hardness would have some bearing on the length of putt I'm assuming, together with weight and other factors. 

 

One thing about inserts that interests me is the weight of them. Since I play 33" to 34" max I like around 360g in the head for the swing-weight I'm used to, which would be somewhere around D4-E1. So I'm very curious to experiment with swapping inserts in cheap but decent older and generally lighter putters to see if a copper insert gives me 360g in the head. If copper is too heavy it could be used in a sandwich with aluminium behind it. A heavier insert would add weight lower down than using tungsten powder in the shaft with a cork, and avoids lead tape which looks awful. 

 

shore hardness is really only referring to the hardness of engineering plastics (your poly inserts). Once you move into metals you get into the Rockwell hardness scale (or Brinell there are a lot of harness scales). So really it’s just a measurement of feel.

Material density is going to be where you get your extra weight. I’m not sure how much weight you’d actually get out of swapping out an insert. Not that Ive had an insert on the scales but I’ve got some delrin rod kicking around…the old hand scales put it slightly heavier than 6061 aluminium. you’d likely only be getting a few grams per CC and there’s not that many CC’s in a insert. Head style will also play into the base weight of any club with an insert so who knows, I don’t really have enough old odysseys kicking around to be much more help 

 

you could always drill and slap in some tungsten weights as well 

[Z1ggy16]

Not sure if an insert but the face pxg uses is a really great mix of feel. It's soft with out being mushy. My number one complaint of things like the white hot insert was that I felt like I lost feel and struggled with distance control. 

[pmcuk]

47 minutes ago, MachineHack said:

Material density is going to be where you get your extra weight. I’m not sure how much weight you’d actually get out of swapping out an insert. ....

you could always drill and slap in some tungsten weights as well 

 

I could drill into a brass or copper head, but not stainless steel - too hard for ordinary drills. I asked around if tungsten rod suppliers could cut them to size but no luck. Too hard to saw. There's lead, but that's not much denser than steel or brass - 11.3 to 8 or 9. The Odyssey inserts come in either the old Dual Force type which is half width, or the White Hot which is full width. I reckon you could get a useful gain in head weight using a copper insert. 

 

As Z1ggy said, I don't want a mushy feel and the White Hot is a bit soft. The older Dual Force black insert was harder. But I like more of a solid sound off metal. I have a Knight putter with a copper insert coming in the post and I'm hoping that feels good. 

 

No experience with carbon fibre inserts - seems to be plenty on sale these days for Odyssey putters. Very light, so no added weight there. Gives a slightly higher note as I understand.

 

Here's an interesting video of making and fitting a brass insert on a White Hot

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amf2iTrPvQU

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by pmcuk

[pmcuk]

Can anyone tell me the depth of a White Hot insert? I just know it's a bit less than 1/4". Depth in mm is good too. 

[2Down]

I’ve an old anser f with the titanium pixels.  That’s a good feeling putter.  But I prefer the feel of my Dave mills mizuno workshop III.  

Plastic ones don’t feel good to me and I’ve seen them torn or damaged in ways the can’t really happen to a metal face.  

 

[pmcuk]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:37 AM, 2Down said:

I’ve an old anser f with the titanium pixels.  That’s a good feeling putter.  But I prefer the feel of my Dave mills mizuno workshop III.  

 

 

Wow! Just looked at a picture and it's lovely. I wonder how much copper plating costs? Do you have any idea of how thick the plating is and how much weight it adds to the head? I had a TP Mills once and it was pretty light. It would be good to raise the head weight to 340g at least. 

[pmcuk]

I just got a cheap but nice old putter with a carbon steel milled face and copper insert, so the first time I've tried copper. It's quite a low note and a solid feel. Not too different from my milled SS SeeMore FGP which also has a medium low note. I've added a 22g copper weight at the bottom of the shaft to bring the head weight up from 331 to 355g. An 8mm brass rod 50mm long fits nicely. I'll put a SuperStroke 2 grip on and at 34" it should weigh 495g and come out at D0. I have hopes for this putter, should play nicely. 

 

I'm still wondering about a higher note and I have a brass Pal clone putter coming which I'll also add 22g to as above and put a SS2 grip on it. I may prefer a more lively sound. I'm having fun trying out different face materials. 

[jomatty]

I really like copper as well as carbon faces.  I’d have to say copper is probably my favorite.  To me it feels dense and soft but not sluggish.  I like that I don’t have to be real gentle and can feel like I am being aggressive without worrying about hitting a 5 footer too hard.

[Lasorcier]

Okay.  So I have a Ping Arna Sigma 2.  It is the best aiming/accurate putter I have ever used.  Sacks Parente Model 39 is the only one that is in the same league for me.  

 

Problem: constantly coming up short with Arna.  How hard it feels to me when I hit it is not how hard it was actually hit.  A feel thing.  

 

So, I removed the insert.   It was easy because it is held in with tape (not a joke).  Picture of insert below.  Just put some grip goop on it and it will come off easily.

 

It is exactly 5mm in depth.  So, I order a 5mm billet of pure copper from Amazon.  It was like 30 bucks for a 100mmX100mmX5mm billet.

 

I cut to rough size and get out the belt sander and go to town.  I got it to fit exactly with no side to side play or top play.  Result is below.

 

I taped it for a test and liked it.  I have now epoxied it and played a round with it.  Pic below.  There is a little gap around it (caused by the metal spacer in the putter - see pic)  I am going to fill it with plastidip, after I remove the insert and refinish the putter to black it all out (the bottom has this blue, white and silver motif that I don't like).

 

It really heavied the head by a LOT.  But, it now goes as far as I feel it goes, which was the objective.

 

By the way, pure copper patinas rapidly.  So if you want to keep the shiny penny look, then I guess it would need to be coated.  This patina is after one day (see pic).