Machine M2A - What would you do?

[PeanutsDaddy]

Good evening,

 

Was swapping out a flange on my Machine M2A putter when one of the screws that affix the flange to the head sheared. The remaining screw is nearly flush with the head. 

To this point I have . . .
 

- unsuccessfully attempted to turn the screw with small tweezers. 

 

- applied head with a torch, allowed to cool and attempted to turn.

 

- used a drill bit to attempt to drill a pilot hole, which I then hoped to use a small extractor bit. The hole began to drift from the centre to the edge so I stopped.

 

What would you do?  
 

Contemplating purchasing a higher strength drill bit, but not certain that is the best course of action.

 

Bugger.

 

 

[A.Princey]

Tap it, and use a reverse torque bit to “drill” it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by A.Princey

[skraly]

Which are you attempting to remove, the one that is sticking out or the one flush to the flange?

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, PeanutsDaddy said:

Good evening,

 

Was swapping out a flange on my Machine M2A putter when one of the screws that affix the flange to the head sheared. The remaining screw is nearly flush with the head. 

To this point I have . . .
 

- unsuccessfully attempted to turn the screw with small tweezers. 

 

- applied head with a torch, allowed to cool and attempted to turn.

 

- used a drill bit to attempt to drill a pilot hole, which I then hoped to use a small extractor bit. The hole began to drift from the centre to the edge so I stopped.

 

What would you do?  
 

Contemplating purchasing a higher strength drill bit, but not certain that is the best course of action.

 

Bugger.

 

 

You want a small carbide drill bit as in tiny.  To drill a starter hole , Then one about 1/3 the size of the screw tp get it big enough. Chances are the screw is hardened.  So you need a harder bit than regular locally sourced bits. Then as the post above shows , an easy out ( extractor ) tapped with a hammer gently into the center of the screw with hole cut will then let you back it out.  Assuming it doesn’t have loctite on the screws threads ?  ( have you ever had it off ?) If so you need to heat the screw first to loosen the loctite. A small butane torch would be best to pinpoint the heat.  
 

 

if you want to send it to me I’ll gladly pull it out for you.  I have all that i just mentioned . 
 

Also might i suggest this company for the bits. Absolutely best tool company anywhere for machinists. Happen to be local to me.  But it’s a huge place that ships all over.  
 

https://www.travers.com/ 

Edited August 24, 2022 by bladehunter

[PeanutsDaddy]

3 minutes ago, skraly said:

Which are you attempting to remove, the one that is sticking out or the one flush to the flange?

The one that is flush to the flange (between the two larger holes).

[PeanutsDaddy]

46 minutes ago, A.Princey said:

Tap it, and use a reverse torque bit to “drill” it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was the direction I was heading, as I own one of these extractors, until the pilot hole began to head off centre.  I think I need a carbide drill bit as bladehunter states to get things started. 

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, PeanutsDaddy said:

This was the direction I was heading, as I own one of these extractors, until the pilot hole began to head off centre.  I think I need a carbide drill bit as bladehunter states to get things started. 

Get one ( and a couple backups in case you break it ) like this with the large shank.  This will let you get it started dead center.   It’ll be sharp so it will cut instead of wallowing.  And if you don’t have a center punch , get one , it’s a good thing to have. Sharpen the tip and use it to mark the center of the screw.  The little drill bit will then have a point to start cutting in.  Instead of walking.  If you get the little hole drilled center. The rest is easy.  Just drill out the small hole up to bigger size and then the extractor.  
 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by bladehunter

[skraly]

You need use a center punch first so that the drill bit doesn’t wander.  Than a small cobalt drill bit, about 1/2 the width of the screw should be about right.  Using some cutting oil and very slow drill speed, make a hole about 1/8 to 3/16” deep.  This will allow you to use a screw extractor.  First I would let some penetrating oil soak over night.  Then after securing the head in a vise, apply a bit of heat just to the flange.  You won’t need much.  You’re just trying to get the hole to expand a little.  You have to be quick though.  If possible, a second person to apply the heat as you’re using the extractor might help.

[PeanutsDaddy]

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

You want a small carbide drill bit as in tiny.  To drill a starter hole , Then one about 1/3 the size of the screw tp get it big enough. Chances are the screw is hardened.  So you need a harder bit than regular locally sourced bits. Then as the post above shows , an easy out ( extractor ) tapped with a hammer gently into the center of the screw with hole cut will then let you back it out.  Assuming it doesn’t have loctite on the screws threads ?  ( have you ever had it off ?) If so you need to heat the screw first to loosen the loctite. A small butane torch would be best to pinpoint the heat.  
 

 

if you want to send it to me I’ll gladly pull it out for you.  I have all that i just mentioned . 
 

Also might i suggest this company for the bits. Absolutely best tool company anywhere for machinists. Happen to be local to me.  But it’s a huge place that ships all over.  
 

https://www.travers.com/ 

Thank you for the detailed assist. To answer a few questions . . . I’ve swapped flanges many many times, and there definitely isn’t any Loctite on the threads. Was totally surprised when the screw snapped as I didn’t even think the flange was fully seated. Knew I was in trouble when it gave way. 
 

I will pick up the correct bit and see what I can cook up. I do have an extractor on hand, but I was afraid to drill too deeply and didn’t have enough material to grab.
 

Should I be searching for a ‘left hand bit’ to drill counter clockwise?

 

Also, would a ‘extraction removal bit’ (per the attached image) work?

 

All else fails, I will send you a DM if you’re willing to lend your skills. 

[PeanutsDaddy]

3 minutes ago, skraly said:

You need use a center punch first so that the drill bit doesn’t wander.  Than a small cobalt drill bit, about 1/2 the width of the screw should be about right.  Using some cutting oil and very slow drill speed, make a hole about 1/8 to 3/16” deep.  This will allow you to use a screw extractor.  First I would let some penetrating oil soak over night.  Then after securing the head in a vise, apply a bit of heat just to the flange.  You won’t need much.  You’re just trying to get the hole to expand a little.  You have to be quick though.  If possible, a second person to apply the heat as you’re using the extractor might help.

This is undoubtedly a dumb question, but I thought of this when I torched the head earlier.  When I apply heat isn’t the metal expanding (bolt and head)?  

[PeanutsDaddy]

I do believe I have a centre punch in my tool collection. Like golf equipment, I seem to acquire tools, most of which I’ve never used : ) 

[skraly]

First, you don’t need much heat, second, that’s why you have to be quick.  You want to extract the screw before the heat has time to expand it as well as the hole.  We’re only talking about 1-2/1000th of an inch to break the screw loose.  After soaking over night with penetrating oil you may not even need heat.

Edited August 24, 2022 by skraly

[PeanutsDaddy]

2 minutes ago, skraly said:

First, you don’t need much heat, second, that’s why you have to be quick.  You want to extract the screw before the heat has time to expand it as well as the hole.  We’re only talking about 1-2/1000th of an inch to break the screw loose.

Makes sense. So not ‘red hot’ as I was attempting before. 
 

This is why you ask those who are experienced before diving in with both hands extended. 

[skraly]

Definitely not red hot.

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, PeanutsDaddy said:

Thank you for the detailed assist. To answer a few questions . . . I’ve swapped flanges many many times, and there definitely isn’t any Loctite on the threads. Was totally surprised when the screw snapped as I didn’t even think the flange was fully seated. Knew I was in trouble when it gave way. 
 

I will pick up the correct bit and see what I can cook up. I do have an extractor on hand, but I was afraid to drill too deeply and didn’t have enough material to grab.
 

Should I be searching for a ‘left hand bit’ to drill counter clockwise?

 

Also, would a ‘extraction removal bit’ (per the attached image) work?

 

All else fails, I will send you a DM if you’re willing to lend your skills. 

Yep. Those bits would work too.  In fact looks like a good idea. 
 

no problem , let me know if I can help.  I’m glad to. 

[Unplayablelies]

If all else fails, and before you mar the head, take it to a machine shop. They are experts. 

[kmay__]

The left hand drill bit is just kinda a bonus as sometimes the bit will bite the screw and back it out as you are drilling, saving you the step of even using the extractor. But definitely not required. 

[PeanutsDaddy]

Thank you for all of the suggestions everyone. 
 

I placed an order for every tool mentioned.  Centre punches, left hand bits, extractors and micro drill bits.  

 

When the tools arrive I’ll follow the steps and see what I can accomplish. 

If I am in over my head I will reach out to bladehunter and let him work his magic. I trust his skill set. 
 

First custom I ever purchased. Was a gift from my wife. Tons of sentimental value. 
 

 

[PeanutsDaddy]

There was a very brief moment when I actually though I could get this screw out . . . when the package arrived from Amazon with the attractive tool sets.

 

An ominous sign as I was taping the head . . . the ‘black demon’ (also known as Axel the Pug) began to chew my Crocs.

 

Step one: Centre Punch. Success!!

 

Step two: Secure in vice. Use a cut hockey puck to help secure the head (seemed like a sensible Canadian thing to do). Feeling good. Bring on this screw. 
 

Step three: It’s drilling time! Micro drill bits.  Snap the first instantly, the second a moment later. I’d swear the first didn’t even touch the screw. 

 

Step four: Abandon step three and switch to left hand drill bits. Snap the first, but it lasts longer than the micro bits.  Switch to a bigger bit. All seems to be moving along smoothly. Cutting oil. Drill. Cutting oil. Drill.

 

Step five: Think it’s time to extract. Extractor bits at the ready. Drill holes not deep enough to grab anything.

 

Got scared. Abandoned project. Was in over  my putter head. 

 

Step six: Send DM to bladehunter. 
 

Step seven: Box head and send to a professional.  
 

Final thought . . . Let a professional handle these tasks in the first place. After all, I am the same fool that overtightened the small screw to start with. 
 

 

 

[skraly]

Sorry about the Crocs.  They're out of style anyway.

[MachineHack]

Having a look at your pictures, this one is going to be tough to drill out 

 

once your centre has drifted, especially with a screw this small…. Well you’ve seen the results lol 

 

small bits will always have the tendency to walk, even with a drill press, if your work piece isn’t perfectly flat. What I typically do is make a jig to keep the bit from walking (which is typically just a block of alloy with a hole in it to guide the bit) as I drill tiny holes in nuts for lock wire from time to time 

 

hope whoever has the next go gets it out for ya! 

[PeanutsDaddy]

The Machine is whole again. Thank you to bladehunter for the assist. I would have been toast without the capable hands of a professional.  
 

I will include a few pictures of his handiwork (light scratches are mine and hidden by the flanges thankfully) and if he wants to comment on the process and/or any challenges he can. 
 

One of the main reasons I have remained active on WRX for more than a decade is members like him. A community of members willing to assist others in need.   
 

 

[bladehunter]

I stumbled back in here. 
 

 

i will say. This one was worrisome after I saw it in person.  And I walked away from it a couple times.  Mainly to force myself to be patient.   
 

i took a sharp center punch and found the center of the actual screw shank. This was some trial and error.  But you could tell the shank vs the putter as far as hardness. So find the outer edge then measure in.  Then took a tiny drill bit and bored until I came out the back side.  Then I took a bit roughly half the shank diameter and drilled it out completely.  Then tried the EZ out extractor.  And it wouldn’t budge.  Never did get it to move at all. 
 

so.  All I could do was then reverse course.  I found the correct drill bit size for the tap that matched the thread size of the screw shank that was broken off in it.  And I drilled the center hole out to that size.  And then the plan was to thread that hole with the proper size.  Which I began doing.  Slowly.  And with liberal oil application.  
 

believe it or not , I actually ran into the remainder of the original threads after I rethreaded roughly half the hole.  
 

So the original screw doesn’t come close to bottoming out in the original threads.  Which means that half a hole of original threads were left in the head behind the broken off shank.  . A certain element of luck had to be present for me to find them exactly with the hole I drilled and threaded.  This was around a 5 day process.  As my patience allowed. Lol.  But not really much time total at all. 
 

at any rate. I’m glad to have been able to help.  I love the history of this putter.  And somehow knew the whole time that it had enough good vibes to guide my hand to the right place.