Why would I want to 'grow the game'?

[memberguest]

I dont understand all this growing the game talk. I am not a pro golfer depending on ratings to make more money. I am not a golf company trying to sell more equipment. I know why those groups want to grow the game.

 

Where I live (in SoCal), the courses are crowded. With younger people. And there isn't much space to build new courses. So growing the game actually seems negative. As golf just gets more crowded. Interestingly, the recent growth of the game hasn't lowered prices either. So courses are more crowded and more expensive.

 

Yes it's a wonderful sport and I'm happy to introduce to friends here and there and share that joy. But "growing the game" beyond that. Who cares? Seems net negative actually.

 

But as you can see this post is a question. What am I missing? Why would I want to grow the game? Why are all these random amateur golfers talking about doing things and supporting things that grow the game?

Edited September 5, 2022 by memberguest

[ChipDriver]

8 hours ago, memberguest said:

I dont understand all this growing the game talk. I am not a pro golfer depending on ratings to make more money. I am not a golf company trying to sell more equipment. I know why those groups want to grow the game.

 

Where I live (in SoCal), the courses are crowded. With younger people. And there isn't much space to build new courses. So growing the game actually seems negative. As golf just gets more crowded. Interestingly, the recent growth of the game hasn't lowered prices either. So courses are more crowded and more expensive.

 

Yes it's a wonderful sport and I'm happy to introduce to friends here and there and share that joy. But "growing the game" beyond that. Who cares? Seems net negative actually.

 

But as you can see this post is a question. What am I missing? Why would I want to grow the game? Why are all these random amateur golfers talking about doing things and supporting things that grow the game?

You're only looking at it from an enduser/customer/golfer perspective.  In perhaps the best of worlds you want:  easy access? good conditions? fast pace of play? affordable price?   But none of that comes without many golfers a day who play your course.  Without the money that they can predictably spend - a business can't maintain, improve, invest to make your personal experience better.

 

This is nothing more than a typical business life-cycle.  Without growth you have maturity of an industry causing things to contract or stagnate...and then decline - resulting in a worse experience for customers.

 

The theory is grow the game - and bring in MORE revenue/customers/clients- and courses/businesses/stores will be able to improve their conditions and enduser experiences - and your enduser experience improves or maintains.   If the revenue stops or stagnates - your personal experience will decline - or worse - it will disappear.  Same for golf; same for a restaurant; grocery store; SHOPPING MALLS etc. etc.

Edited September 5, 2022 by ChipDriver

[Llortamaisey]

You’re probably not going to like what I have to say. It sounds like you have a California problem instead of a golf growth problem. 

[SteelieD]

I’m with the OP. 
 

I’d gladly sacrifice some course conditions and amenities for a faster pace of play. 
 

Seems to me that all I’ve seen with the recent golf boom is crowded courses/slower play and more expensive rates. If that’s “growing the game” then no thanks. 

[llewol007]

I don’t believe it is necessarily growing the game but getting younger crowds in there to replace those players who have given up the game due to age or what not. Just like anything else, if you don’t have enough new people coming into your restaurant, eventually your consistent customers will come less and less and if you don’t have a fresh set of faces coming in, your restaurant closes. Same for golf. Gotta get the younger demographic to take up the game and keep it going.

[memberguest]

3 hours ago, ChipDriver said:

You're only looking at it from an enduser/customer/golfer perspective.  In perhaps the best of worlds you want:  easy access? good conditions? fast pace of play? affordable price?   But none of that comes without many golfers a day who play your course.  Without the money that they can predictably spend - a business can't maintain, improve, invest to make your personal experience better.

 

This is nothing more than a typical business life-cycle.  Without growth you have maturity of an industry causing things to contract or stagnate...and then decline - resulting in a worse experience for customers.

 

The theory is grow the game - and bring in MORE revenue/customers/clients- and courses/businesses/stores will be able to improve their conditions and enduser experiences - and your enduser experience improves or maintains.   If the revenue stops or stagnates - your personal experience will decline - or worse - it will disappear.  Same for golf; same for a restaurant; grocery store; SHOPPING MALLS etc. etc.

I appreciate your comment and perspective.

 

Who is regulating this growth? Who is managing it? Look at pollution. Look at traffic. Clearly there is a happy medium somewhere between letting the something decline and unbridled overenthusiastic blind "grow it". As I said in my original comment I am happy to introduce the game to friends - I don't see the benefits of large scale pushing the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[memberguest]

2 hours ago, Llortamaisey said:

You’re probably not going to like what I have to say. It sounds like you have a California problem instead of a golf growth problem. 

Not exactly sure what this means. 12 months a year I play golf on some of the worlds best courses driving distance from my house

[MelloYello]

I'm not sure how economically viable golf actually is at any point along the spectrum. 

 

Excluding those that are resorts, destinations, etc. which charge an arm and a leg due to prestige or fame. most courses draw revenue from daily fees or memberships, which is to say they're either public or private establishments who pay the bills based on the cash they can pull in on a monthly basis. 

 

Private clubs that pull cash from memberships require a lot of money to keep things moving. At no point do those experiences run efficiently. If you're a club golfer you understand what a drain the monthly payments are. If the monthly dues are $500, it's not uncommon for your actual monthly payment to be 2x that (or more). Members at private clubs grotesquely over-contribute cash relative to the quality of the courses they play for the privilege of greater privacy, pace of play, or whatever you want to call exclusivity in its various forms.

 

Public or "daily fee" clubs run on tight budgets with limited (or no) amenities outside the course itself with minimal staff that usually work far more than 40 hours per week. These clubs are almost universally dying to increase cash flow. 

 

I hate to say it but you're either lucky to have a public course in your area that hasn't gone under for lack of cash or you're sucking it up and choosing to help pay for what is likely a fundamentally unsustainable private club experience built on the back of pure cash burn.  

 

It's no wonder why all entities selling golf be they private or public, courses or equipment manufacturers are all lining up behind the idea of increasing their customer base. Public courses are at risk. Private courses will always want more in the coffers. Equipment companies can charge more. Everyone benefits who's got something to sell. 

 

The weird thing about golf is not that this is all the case but rather that people see "golf" as something of a communal thing and not the leisure/vacation-type expense that it is. 

 

Would you blame a hotel company for promoting travel or vacation? No, but we also don't consider ourselves communally-aligned with hotel companies the way we do with golf courses when in reality we're nothing more than a customer. This is also why I say private clubs are really just unsustainable things being kept alive by monthly infusions of pure cash by a select few who choose to invest. 

 

But again, there's no equity built in any of this. The second we golfers stop paying up, courses immediately get sold to land developers or we see private clubs turn public or get bought out. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by MelloYello

[SE Gamer]

Growing the game has always been a double-edged sword. You need growth to maintain the industry. If it becomes stagnant conditions fade, courses close, etc. On the other side of the coin, growth results in undesirable consequences like lesser tee time availability and slow play. 

 

Same thing happened during the Tiger era. Tons of new players. Which frankly made it pretty miserable to try and complete a round in even a remotely reasonable amount of time. But still a net positive.

[Llortamaisey]

52 minutes ago, memberguest said:

Not exactly sure what this means. 12 months a year I play golf on some of the worlds best courses driving distance from my house

Most places don’t have the crowding issue that California has. And if they do, it’s easy for the market to correct it because the barrier of entry for new courses is a lot lower. When compared to the majority of other places in the US, it seems California has unreasonable property values, water sourcing issues, and power grid issues, all of which make it tough for a golf course to open and operate. 

[Dpavs]

From anyone's point of view there is probably some argument to be made that the game needs or doesn't really need growing at this point. From mine, I might agree that "the game", as they say,  in the USA is pretty well grown as it stands now. As to why this phrase still gets kicked around, to me it's pretty simple really. The phrase "growing the game" has become one of the pawns as part of a marketing narrative that is used to make a specific point of view or activity sound altruistic. End of story.

 

All that said... "growing the game" may well be a more valid concept in countries that would like to foster greater involvement in golf that what currently exist. So, I understand that too.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Dpavs

[clinkinfo]

14 hours ago, memberguest said:

I dont understand all this growing the game talk. I am not a pro golfer depending on ratings to make more money. I am not a golf company trying to sell more equipment. I know why those groups want to grow the game.

 

Where I live (in SoCal), the courses are crowded. With younger people. And there isn't much space to build new courses. So growing the game actually seems negative. As golf just gets more crowded. Interestingly, the recent growth of the game hasn't lowered prices either. So courses are more crowded and more expensive.

 

Yes it's a wonderful sport and I'm happy to introduce to friends here and there and share that joy. But "growing the game" beyond that. Who cares? Seems net negative actually.

 

But as you can see this post is a question. What am I missing? Why would I want to grow the game? Why are all these random amateur golfers talking about doing things and supporting things that grow the game?

 

In fairness, this crowded part is in part because of the contraction of the game that was happening prior to this boom.

 

Courses were closing left and right here in the northeast so new houses could be built, because the houses offered more money to the land owner than a 2/3 empty golf course.  Same in vacation destinations, I saw so many courses I used to frequent on trips disappear over the years, to be developed into condos or houses or hotels.

 

Those who have gone through the contraction periods of golf have seen the consequences.  Less access, less courses, less equipment innovation, less everything to do with the game.  That's not good either.

[GHIN n Juice]

Pre-COVID saw numbers down, courses closing, courses getting rid of their pros, decreasing maintenance budgets and questions about the game dying.  
 

Don't take for granted the growth of the game over the past few years.  It is keeping courses open, period.

[Petethreeput]

20 hours ago, memberguest said:

I dont understand all this growing the game talk. I am not a pro golfer depending on ratings to make more money. I am not a golf company trying to sell more equipment. I know why those groups want to grow the game.

 

Where I live (in SoCal), the courses are crowded. With younger people. And there isn't much space to build new courses. So growing the game actually seems negative. As golf just gets more crowded. Interestingly, the recent growth of the game hasn't lowered prices either. So courses are more crowded and more expensive.

 

Yes it's a wonderful sport and I'm happy to introduce to friends here and there and share that joy. But "growing the game" beyond that. Who cares? Seems net negative actually.

 

But as you can see this post is a question. What am I missing? Why would I want to grow the game? Why are all these random amateur golfers talking about doing things and supporting things that grow the game?

I don’t know if it has been said, but golfers are old. Like, dying all the time. Growing isn’t really growing, it’s maintaining. Heck, I will be dead soon too.

[memberguest]

1 hour ago, Petethreeput said:

I don’t know if it has been said, but golfers are old. Like, dying all the time. Growing isn’t really growing, it’s maintaining. Heck, I will be dead soon too.

I fully support a "maintaining the game" movement

[Robert72]

Covid did a lot to 'grow the game'.

 

But sadly, pandemic golfers are some of the worst.

[tiderider]

yeah, the game needs to be grown, but the 'how' is the issue ... something DLIII said on a podcast recently ... essentially 'the game of golf will be fine, it's the professional side that might be in turmoil, but that's our problem, and we are a tiny slice' ... now, he didn't mention any issues with golf in general at the amateur level because that's not what the discussion was about, but we tend to think of 'grow the game' as coming from or being influenced too much by the professional side ... and not to bring the current issue into it, but tv growth, which seems to be something of a talking point in the whole debate, isn't the same as golf growth, though some of that would obviously overlap ... golf needs to appeal more to people on a basic level, and it's not doing a very good job of that right now, though i'm not sure it can ... it's a very difficult skill to acquire ... dialing back the ball or changing the equipment might be best for the pro game, but is probably not in the best interest of the general public ... not that it's going to happen, but it's a discussion ... and the courses have too many holes which require too much money, and probably just as important or very close to it, a lot of time ... and a lot of people getting into golf are not into it for the life lessons it teaches, for the most part ...  they just want to get out and make some noise and swing a club really hard, though there is a bit of camaraderie to that, albeit one that grates my nerves, personally ... if i won the lottery, i'd buy 5-10 acres in b'ahm somewhere, if i could find it, and build 3-4 holes and let the community help me run it in exchange for golf ... a tiny house version of a golf club ... that's how i'd grow it ... but i don't have that money ... so i'm here, talking to golfwrx about it ... 

[Hawkeye77]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:04 PM, memberguest said:

I fully support a "maintaining the game" movement

Fortunately market forces don’t worry about what is convenient for you. 
 

The game needs people interested. Suggesting that interest should be “regulated” or tempered because you are worried about getting a tee time, or pace of play (false narrative) or cost and on and on is silly if you care about golf and it’s growth and survival. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[PixlPutterman]

Micro vs macro

[Chunkitgood]

I was playing golf before the Woods phenomenon and I can tell you it was sweet.

[larrybud]

The one major problem with *needing* to grow the game is the cost of upkeep. One non-trivial aspect of that was the 90s golf course boom where everybody was building "championship" courses that take up huge amounts of land and cost a fortune to maintain. Local munis are a dying species.

 

So now it takes longer to play, costs more, and courses have to jam everybody in in order to keep revenue up to afford to maintain the course.

 

It would be nice to see course developers revert back to the "muni" style course. But people are fat and lazy. Most don't want to walk (which muni's are perfect for), and are expecting Augusta National every time they tee it up./

[rgk5]

On 9/5/2022 at 2:18 AM, memberguest said:

I dont understand all this growing the game talk. I am not a pro golfer depending on ratings to make more money. I am not a golf company trying to sell more equipment. I know why those groups want to grow the game.

 

Where I live (in SoCal), the courses are crowded. With younger people. And there isn't much space to build new courses. So growing the game actually seems negative. As golf just gets more crowded. Interestingly, the recent growth of the game hasn't lowered prices either. So courses are more crowded and more expensive.

 

Yes it's a wonderful sport and I'm happy to introduce to friends here and there and share that joy. But "growing the game" beyond that. Who cares? Seems net negative actually.

 

But as you can see this post is a question. What am I missing? Why would I want to grow the game? Why are all these random amateur golfers talking about doing things and supporting things that grow the game?

Why?  The majority of golfers are between the ages of 45 and 65.  When they pass on what do you think is going to happen to courses?

[heavy_hitter]

On 9/5/2022 at 2:18 AM, memberguest said:

I dont understand all this growing the game talk. I am not a pro golfer depending on ratings to make more money. I am not a golf company trying to sell more equipment. I know why those groups want to grow the game.

 

Where I live (in SoCal), the courses are crowded. With younger people. And there isn't much space to build new courses. So growing the game actually seems negative. As golf just gets more crowded. Interestingly, the recent growth of the game hasn't lowered prices either. So courses are more crowded and more expensive.

 

Yes it's a wonderful sport and I'm happy to introduce to friends here and there and share that joy. But "growing the game" beyond that. Who cares? Seems net negative actually.

 

But as you can see this post is a question. What am I missing? Why would I want to grow the game? Why are all these random amateur golfers talking about doing things and supporting things that grow the game?

"Growing the Game" is the biggest BS in golf being pushed by the media and Teaching Professionals.  "Growing the Game" is short for "How do we make more money!!".  I am coming from a junior golf perspective.  Over $100 for a junior rate is absolutely absurd.  Courses not giving up weekends for Junior Tournaments to appease playing members is not "Growing the Game".  It is 100% complete bull 💩.