Underrated key to a pure shallow in my opinion

[teddyironboy]

Interesting, I think I see what you are saying. Does that mean my arms need to lead more on the downswing? Are they getting stuck behind my body's rotation?

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, teddyironboy said:

Interesting, I think I see what you are saying. Does that mean my arms need to lead more on the downswing? Are they getting stuck behind my body's rotation?

Yeah you can see it that way. It's a get the hands down and in front faster thing. Arms need freedom to drop & pop, shoulders are key in allowing that. Staying "welded " is an attempt at staying connected but it is a poor compensation. and nothing more. Monte or AMG talk about this, it's a bit complex but you need to adjust sequencing and the impulses tied to that. 

 

Hit the range just try swinging with intent of get lead shoulder away from head, get trail shoulder under head. It's a different animal. When you do that, hands gain space from body and arm unfolds. Unfolding arm earlier is a pure shallow move. Try it in a mirror, slow mo, unfold trail arm, shaft goes shallow.

[MysteryV]

What does "shallow" mean to everyone who's using the term?

What do you feel is the benefit of being shallow?

 

People throw the terms around quite a bit, but I think people are often talking about very different things.

[MysteryV]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:28 AM, teddyironboy said:

Impure is one that has pulldown and more flip than there should be.

 

What is pulldown?

What is flip?

 

Does Berger or Garcia pull down too much thus making their shallowing moves "impure"?

Is impurity of pulldown based on time to lower the hands or do we need to measure the force being put into the handle in order to determine a shallows purity?

Is flip measured in degrees per second?  Is it wrist flexion / extension or are we looking at face closure rate?

[ThePaineTrain]

49 minutes ago, MysteryV said:

What does "shallow" mean to everyone who's using the term?

What do you feel is the benefit of being shallow?

 

People throw the terms around quite a bit, but I think people are often talking about very different things.

My definition of "shallowing" is that at some point early in the downswing, the club head moves a greater distance in the Y axis than the butt of the shaft (and therefore the hands). The correct way to do it also involves the club head moving away from target and away from the ball, so down, out, and behind-ish.

 

As to the benefit, I'm not sure scientifically, but it seems like one of or a combo of the following things: Getting the club on plane and flatter arc at impact (more margin for error to catch the ball on the sweet spot with a flat arc vs a sharp V).

 

I also think (but don't have the data or expertise to know) that, because a shallowing move gets the center of mass of the club (located closer to the head) working to the outside of the arc early in the swing, it's more efficient at producing speed. It's like a hammer throw, you get centripetal force working first to pull the head away from you then increase speed by increasing the force in the direction perpendicular to the arc.

[CoreyW1369]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:45 PM, MysteryV said:

What does "shallow" mean to everyone who's using the term?

What do you feel is the benefit of being shallow?

 

People throw the terms around quite a bit, but I think people are often talking about very different things.

To me it means the clubs centre of mass lines up more wth the trail forearm than the lead arm. As a right hand dominant left handed player, I’ve always enlisted the strength of my dominant arm/side to power the swing, pulling hard with the left arm. Now I try to focus on trail arm being lower than the lead at impact (my intent is to get as low as possible) which has lead to improvement for me. 

[CoreyW1369]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:29 AM, teddyironboy said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiLjoOqg_Yw

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiOJaCJAOV1

This man is a machine. His pre-shot routine might look strange but really mirrors what many contemporary players (Hovland, Morikawa, DJ) look like. I’ve watched a lot of his videos even though I don’t understand Japanese 😄

[glk]

Shallow and steep are relationships between the hand path and the com of the club.    Club com below/behind hand path is shallow and vice vErsa for steep.   
 

a not to technical discussion on what and why one wants to be shallow.

 

 

[Tanner25]

On 9/29/2022 at 4:05 PM, golfarb1 said:

Then just  look at the pictures of Lucas Glover 

His Trail elbow has moved forward  more than his hands -his forearm has become more vertical as a result 

This has happened NOT in isolation but immediately after he has initiated his downswing via weighting his left foot . 

 

That combination move 

1. Weighting the lead foot 

2. Moving the trail elbow more forward towards the target line 

are the keys to shallowing the shaft and the 

correct right elbow move

 

To simulate this  trail elbow 

hit balls with a soft soccer ball between your elbows AND pressure the ball via pressing into the ball with your trail elbow in transition 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good stuff, Golfarb1. Here's a video talking about the elbow move in transition. 

 

 

[Dufferonius]

3 hours ago, Tanner25 said:

 

Good stuff, Golfarb1. Here's a video talking about the elbow move in transition. 

That's a good video, @Tanner25.  Explains the concept and effects well.