Adjusting loft on a Taylormade SIM 2 MAX Driver

[wings02]

I am looking at a TaylorMade  SIM 2 MAX Driver in a 9 degree loft. When you increase the loft on a Taylormade driver, it slightly closes the face. Is that correct or is it the opposite?

[Stuart_G]

27 minutes ago, wings02 said:

I am looking at a TaylorMade  SIM 2 MAX Driver in a 9 degree loft. When you increase the loft on a Taylormade driver, it slightly closes the face. Is that correct or is it the opposite?

 

It is correct - for all hosel adjustable drivers.  Make, model and hosel adjustment design makes no difference.

 

Loft up - closes face angle. 

Loft down - opens the face angle.

[Bman22]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:49 AM, Stuart_G said:

Loft up - closes face angle. 

Loft down - opens the face angle.

 

I don't get it, I thought the opposite.

 

If you're holding the driver at address (standard, no adjustment), and twist the club shaft slightly counter clockwise to deloft the face, the clubhead becomes more close (not more open).  So how is adjusting loft down opens the face angle? 

[Jeff58]

Per Taylor Made @Bman22
 

 

 

With an iron, you are correct. With an adjustable hosel however (I’m quoting this from elsewhere) it's more effective loft. It's why you see TM label the adapter higher and lower. In theory if you close the face, to return it to square position at impact you are opening the face up and hitting it higher with more loft than what you started with from the closed position. In the open spot it's the opposite, you are closing the face down at impact and your effective loft is lower.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Jeff58

[MFBach]

5 hours ago, Bman22 said:

If you're holding the driver at address (standard, no adjustment), and twist the club shaft slightly counter clockwise to deloft the face, the clubhead becomes more close (not more open).  So how is adjusting loft down opens the face angle? 

You’re on the right track here, but only looking at half the equation. A loft adjustment changed the insertion angle of the shaft into the club head. You have to return the face to square to get the desired/adjusted loft you’re referencing. So, to decrease loft, you adjust the club face to an open position, then return it to neutral at address, as you mentioned. To increase loft, you would do the opposite… close the club face in relation to the neutral shaft angle, then square the club face at address. 
 

A lot of people wrongly assume that lowering loft opens the face AND reduces loft, but that’s impossible. It’s an either/or situation… if you open the face and address the ball with the club resting naturally on the ground, you’ve opened the face and actually added loft, and vice versa for the decreased loft setting. You really aren’t changing loft at all, just the shaft insertion angle. It’s the manipulation of the club head at address that renders the desired adjustment. 

[Stuart_G]

13 hours ago, Bman22 said:

 

I don't get it, I thought the opposite.

 

If you're holding the driver at address (standard, no adjustment), and twist the club shaft slightly counter clockwise to deloft the face, the clubhead becomes more close (not more open).  So how is adjusting loft down opens the face angle? 

 

The others above have tried to explain but simply put that's not the way you have to look at it.  A hosel adjustment is not the same as rotating the club in your hands.   It's very different.

 

Rotating the club in your hands is not changing the face angle of the head.  Face angle is a measurable static attribute of the head that is independent of how you hold the club.   The hosel adjustment doesn't just tilt the face relative to the shaft line, it tilts the whole head (like bending loft on an iron).   That tilting of the head also changes the orientation of the sole of the driver head.  And that is what leads to the face angle change.

 

[isaacward44]

Yeah, it's very strange. My ball marks are in the center of the face on almost every hit yet it's always producing a hard fade when set in the normal position. I'm gonna try the 2 degree higher position to see if that helps but I'm skeptical since the spin increases 400 RPM and the whole reason I was fitted into this driver with the upcharge Atmos Tour Spec shaft was because it had low spin under 3000 RPM so now I'm gonna be adding more spin which seems counterproductive?

[Howard_Jones]

8 hours ago, isaacward44 said:

Yeah, it's very strange. My ball marks are in the center of the face on almost every hit yet it's always producing a hard fade when set in the normal position. I'm gonna try the 2 degree higher position to see if that helps but I'm skeptical since the spin increases 400 RPM and the whole reason I was fitted into this driver with the upcharge Atmos Tour Spec shaft was because it had low spin under 3000 RPM so now I'm gonna be adding more spin which seems counterproductive?

Dont worry at all.

Spin is a product of Dynamic loft, the correction factor is Vertical gear effects.
No matter what loft we play, a impact below the centerline, will impart more spin due to vertical gear effects, and a impact above will cut of spin.

Most spin issues (too high), on drivers is related to a impact too low on the face, and as a rule of thumb, 1/8" UP (higher impact), cut of 240 Rpm, and adds about 0.35* to launch angle and vice versa.

A player with as example 3000 rpm, should try to move impact 3/8" higher on the face
That will deliver right above 1.0 higher launch (depending on face roll ratio), and cut off 720 rpm of spin

Fade or draw, is a product of "face to path", of simply if face angle is open or closed vs club path (not target line)
If you get a unwanted fade (or slice), your face angle is open to club path.

We can fix that, by adding more loft on the hosel settings, who close up face angle from address as a ban aid.
The option to that, is to close up more during the swing, so look at how you place your hands on the grip, and if the grip on the lowest hand is "strong enough" to force more face closing during release of the club.

Before you adjust the hosel, try the "second solution" (hands and grip), if that dont help, use the hosel setting to get a more closed face angle from address.

Next, make sure you never make impact below the center line, and you will never see any spin issues unless its something that far out with the delivery of the club to the ball.

For us humans using a driver, our impact pattern is NOT like it is for a robot, we will vary, and by that, its ALWAYS vertical gear effects in play, and they are so strong, that its often hard to isolate spin and address it to loft, so its not unusual to see lower spin values from 13.0* loft vs 7.5* static loft, ALL due to vertical gear effects and the players impact pattern.

So, dont worry about using a higher loft by hosel settings, you need the ball in the fairway and prevent fades or slices to the right, and face angle vs path is what we have to use to fix it. 

[Bye]

10 hours ago, isaacward44 said:

Yeah, it's very strange. My ball marks are in the center of the face on almost every hit yet it's always producing a hard fade when set in the normal position. I'm gonna try the 2 degree higher position to see if that helps but I'm skeptical since the spin increases 400 RPM and the whole reason I was fitted into this driver with the upcharge Atmos Tour Spec shaft was because it had low spin under 3000 RPM so now I'm gonna be adding more spin which seems counterproductive?

Try the upright setting, you can keep the loft the same then. It made a massive difference for me.
 

 

[BallsMcGee]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:52 AM, Bye said:

Try the upright setting, you can keep the loft the same then. It made a massive difference for me.
 

 

When you say it made a massive difference, what do you mean exactly please? E.g. what type of balls were you getting before Vs after?

[Bye]

On 5/2/2025 at 10:24 PM, BallsMcGee said:

When you say it made a massive difference, what do you mean exactly please? E.g. what type of balls were you getting before Vs after?

So it straitened the flight, I still found it to be slightly fade bias, but much less so.

 

Ive moved on since then, the Titleist GT3 is so much better and more adjustable.

[DanChambers]

I tend to either snap hook, or the ball just does some sort of knuckleball😂 this is on higher loft, where am i going wrong🤦🏼‍♂️