Best iron shafts for fast transition but average swing speed

[Ireland2]

Not sure whether it is just poor fittings but I get told almost comically polar opposite things when looking for suitable iron shafts. Still don’t think I have found “the” shaft for me.

 

What I know is that I’m an 80mph 7-iron, short backswing and fast transition. Consistent swing plane, -4 to 5 AoA, low single figure, not particularly strong, 50 years old. Play on firm turf. Low launch is my nemesis.

 

I can hit the Modus 120’s when I slow down and am deliberate, pausing at the top for what seems like an eternity (but clearly isn’t). They hate me when I revert to my norm.

 

Thank you all

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ireland2

[mc2]

Bend your heads weak for more launch
 

 

[ChaosTheory]

I have similar characteristics and problems with iron shafts but I’m older and slower.  I’m in to read this.  I hope you get some good replies.

 

As for launch, I check the Maltby MPF ratings for heads with VCOG lower than 0.800.  Such heads help quite a bit.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Snowman9000

[Howard_Jones]

53 minutes ago, Ireland2 said:

Not sure whether it is just poor fittings but I get told almost comically polar opposite things when looking for suitable iron shafts. Still don’t think I have found “the” shaft for me.

 

What I know is that I’m an 80mph 7-iron, short backswing and fast transition. Consistent swing plane, -4 to 5 AoA, low single figure, not particularly strong, 50 years old. Play on firm turf. Low launch is my nemesis.

 

I can hit the Modus 120’s when I slow down and am deliberate, pausing at the top for what seems like an eternity (but clearly isn’t). They hate me when I revert to my norm.

 

Thank you all

If shaft wgt is right for you, and feel of flex and profile is good, simply bend lofts weaker, it works every time, and the effect is the same as MIGHT be found by a chant change. The closest slightly softer and slightly lighter option to Modus 120 S would be PX LZ 5.0 (113 vs 109.5 grams)

[Ireland2]

Thanks Howard, all,

 

But I didn’t really mean this to be around low launch (that was just an extra descriptor). This is more about finding the right profile and weight. Modus 120’s and to an extent Project LZ’s seem to need a very deliberate tempo. I don’t have that and they feel horrible when I’m a little quick.

 

For instance, one fitter put me in to AMT Red (need light weight for launch) and the next put me in to LZ 6.0 (need heavier and stiffer for quick transition). Something about soft middles makes me feel less in control, even if it does give me better ball speed.

 

I know this is hugely individual so maybe impossible to answer.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ireland2

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, Ireland2 said:

Not sure whether it is just poor fittings but I get told almost comically polar opposite things when looking for suitable iron shafts. Still don’t think I have found “the” shaft for me.

 

What I know is that I’m an 80mph 7-iron, short backswing and fast transition. Consistent swing plane, -4 to 5 AoA, low single figure, not particularly strong, 50 years old. Play on firm turf. Low launch is my nemesis.

 

I can hit the Modus 120’s when I slow down and am deliberate, pausing at the top for what seems like an eternity (but clearly isn’t). They hate me when I revert to my norm.

 

Thank you all

 

I think we can look to the Tour to get an answer here.  The shorter, faster, transition guys like Rahm, Garcia, and Cam Smith all have a barely shoulder height back swing followed by a steeper down-c0ck move through the downswing and impact zone.  All of these players use shafts with a stiffer handle section to accommodate this.  Garcia uses Modus 130, Rahm with Project X, and Cam with KBS Tour.  There are plenty of profiles out there that match this and they will all feel a bit different.  The easiest ones to test are going to be PX, PX LZ, and KBS Tour, but you also have PX LS, PX IO, KBS $-Taper, KBS C-Taper, KBS Tour-V, Oban CT, Shimada, Accra Tour graphite, Steelfiber...and the list goes on.  Good luck.

[Howard_Jones]

12 minutes ago, Ireland2 said:

Thanks Howard, all,

 

But I didn’t really mean this to be around low launch (that was just an extra descriptor). This is more about finding the right profile and weight. Modus 120’s and to an extent Project LZ’s seem to need a very deliberate tempo. I don’t have that and they feel horrible when I’m a little quick.

 

For instance, one fitter put me in to AMT Red (need light weight for launch) and the next put me in to LZ 6.0 (need heavier and stiffer for quick transition). Something about soft middles makes me feel less in control, even if it does give me better ball speed.

 

I know this is hugely individual so maybe impossible to answer.

WristySwing just listed a lot of options here, and if you dont like the bending sensation LZ gives, try the classic PX, but not stronger than 5.5 (i would have tried 5.0 if possible) The classic PX shafts is the one i found to work the best for "short and or aggressive" swing styles.

If you have a True Temper Performance Fitting Center in your area, give them a visit, and ask to try RIFLE FCM in a few options. They are the most versatile shafts on the marked, who can be built and modified to what ever wgt, flex and flight patterns wanted, but not all PFC centers is "good", when it comes to RIFLE FCM shafts, but they should be mentioned. 

[Nessism]

Adding to @WristySwing's comment, Modus 120 has a very soft butt section.  

 

Typically, a quick transition ramps up the stiffness requirements for the person's shaft.  An 80 mph 7 iron swing isn't overly slow, so don't rule out Stiff shafts when you go to demo.  A shaft that plays soft to flex in the S catagory, maybe even soft stepped once, could work for you.

[realitycheck]

34 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I think we can look to the Tour to get an answer here.  The shorter, faster, transition guys like Rahm, Garcia, and Cam Smith all have a barely shoulder height back swing followed by a steeper down-c0ck move through the downswing and impact zone.  All of these players use shafts with a stiffer handle section to accommodate this.  Garcia uses Modus 130, Rahm with Project X, and Cam with KBS Tour.  There are plenty of profiles out there that match this and they will all feel a bit different.  The easiest ones to test are going to be PX, PX LZ, and KBS Tour, but you also have PX LS, PX IO, KBS $-Taper, KBS C-Taper, KBS Tour-V, Oban CT, Shimada, Accra Tour graphite, Steelfiber...and the list goes on.  Good luck.

Such a solid post!!  Im in the same boat as this gentlemen, and have hit almost all but the shimada and Accra shafts ...on paper, and my swing speed they shouldn't match up, but the ones you list almost all work for my swing (just in hitting shots at the shop)....never really understood why.  Going PX IO in my next set.

 

Thanks for the post

[WristySwing]

23 minutes ago, realitycheck said:

Such a solid post!!  Im in the same boat as this gentlemen, and have hit almost all but the shimada and Accra shafts ...on paper, and my swing speed they shouldn't match up, but the ones you list almost all work for my swing (just in hitting shots at the shop)....never really understood why.  Going PX IO in my next set.

 

Thanks for the post

 

That's the thing.  People get overwhelmed trying to find that one perfect shaft.  The reality is it doesn't exist.  We are stochastic beings, we have flux and nuance in our swings every day.  We can do a best guess that means 80-85% of the swings are going to be decent with shaft X, but we can never find the perfect shaft that reacts to our swings perfectly every time we take the club back.  Fitting and finding the proper shaft is fairly easy if you follow a formula of weight first (largely but not entirely dictated by swing speed and swing path), kick point second (dictated by ball flight and player tempo), and third torque (entirely dictated by the player's sensation during the swing).  This is why you can have a couple of shafts seemingly identical on paper (take KBS Tour vs. PX, for example) but one feels horrible to some and the other is almost perfection.  They both have similarly higher balance points and stiffer handles, they both weigh the same in the same flex, but the player's subjectivity to the torque and smoothness of the shaft is the final piece of the puzzle to really make one click.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Ireland2 said:

For instance, one fitter put me in to AMT Red (need light weight for launch) and the next put me in to LZ 6.0 (need heavier and stiffer for quick transition).

This is exactly why Howard mentioned lofts though, because you don’t need soft, light shafts for launch. Tailor the shaft to your feel/transition and bend your lofts for launch. Trying to fix launch problems with shafts is a recipe for the exact headache you’re describing, and it’s an unnecessary one because shafts aren’t even the most effective lever you can pull here. 

[ChaosTheory]

I’ll throw a twist in here.

 

Would you swing better if you had a shaft that caused your swing computer to smooth out the transition?

 

Because some shafts will do that in a complementary way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ireland2]

29 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

This is exactly why Howard mentioned lofts though, because you don’t need soft, light shafts for launch. Tailor the shaft to your feel/transition and bend your lofts for launch. Trying to fix launch problems with shafts is a recipe for the exact headache you’re describing, and it’s an unnecessary one because shafts aren’t even the most effective lever you can pull here. 

Yep I realise that thanks. It was the original fitter that seemed obsessed on that idea, not me.

 

I really just want shafts I can swing hard at without feeling that I’ve lost control (or the dead feeling the Modus 120’s give me on a non-perfect strike). Maybe it’s good old Dynamic Gold but in a 120 or even 105.

 

Minefield but I need to find someone I can trust on a face-to-face.

 

Appreciate all the responses…

[WristySwing]

2 hours ago, Ireland2 said:

Yep I realise that thanks. It was the original fitter that seemed obsessed on that idea, not me.

 

I really just want shafts I can swing hard at without feeling that I’ve lost control (or the dead feeling the Modus 120’s give me on a non-perfect strike). Maybe it’s good old Dynamic Gold but in a 120 or even 105.

 

Minefield but I need to find someone I can trust on a face-to-face.

 

Appreciate all the responses…

 

Scroll up.  I gave you a lot of different shafts to try.  Been fitting for near 20 years.  The DG and Modus is typically the opposite profile for someone who is very handsy as the softer overall butt sections and upper thirds of these profiles will feel very wobbly.

[Ireland2]

31 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

Scroll up.  I gave you a lot of different shafts to try.  Been fitting for near 20 years.  The DG and Modus is typically the opposite profile for someone who is very handsy as the softer overall butt sections and upper thirds of these profiles will feel very wobbly.

Thanks - yes of course. I will certainly ask to try a few that you suggest above.

[eric61]

3 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

I’ll throw a twist in here.

 

Would you swing better if you had a shaft that caused your swing computer to smooth out the transition?

 

Because some shafts will do that in a complementary way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the case for me. I know shafts are minor factors in launch and spin, but having a profile that fits definitely has an impact on my swing. My biggest problem is getting too quick in transition — that’s sort of the root for me of other flaws that then kick in — and the shafts I currently play do help me slow down. You’ll see on my profile a lot of softer handle/mid shafts — DI 8X in my 7W, Modus 120X in my irons, likely a UB 7X going in a TSR fairway soon, for example. Those profiles help me. However, I also react to shafts that feel *too* soft by delaying my release and slicing it. So I probably play one flex stronger than my swing speed might indicate would be ideal on paper, because it just seems to get the feel into a perfect spot for me. 
 

To the OP … one I’d also try if I were you is Modus 130. Stiffer handle than something like the 120, softer tip that might help a tiny bit with launch. I play them in my wedges because I wanted something heavier, had Callaway store credit, and they were out of S400s when I placed my order — I figured I’d just swap them out since I have some S400s in my closet, but I’ve actually liked them a lot, especially on partial shots where the tempo problems I mentioned above don’t really come into play.

[NPSpar4]

Speaking as someone with a quick transition, Project X is the king.  5.5 or 6.0 should be something you test out. They will fit ya

[T_Golf_23]

8 hours ago, Ireland2 said:

Thanks Howard, all,

 

But I didn’t really mean this to be around low launch (that was just an extra descriptor). This is more about finding the right profile and weight. Modus 120’s and to an extent Project LZ’s seem to need a very deliberate tempo. I don’t have that and they feel horrible when I’m a little quick.

 

For instance, one fitter put me in to AMT Red (need light weight for launch) and the next put me in to LZ 6.0 (need heavier and stiffer for quick transition). Something about soft middles makes me feel less in control, even if it does give me better ball speed.

 

I know this is hugely individual so maybe impossible to answer.

KBS tour V. Tons of different weight options. Extremely stiff butt and mid section. Softer tip. They are a mid launch, lower spinning shaft. Very penetrating ball flight and fights the wind. 
 

I have an aggressive transition and lose the mid bend shafts. Can’t stand them. 7 irons speed around 90mph. The Tour V is insanely stable. 
 

comparable wedge shafts would be the KBS 610.

 

you can look at the modus 130 shafts, but they are quite a bit heavier. 
 

the  modus 130 and the KBS Tour V are the polar opposites of the modus 120. The modus 120 is. It really made for aggressive transitions. 
 

i play the 130 in stiff and the KBS Tour V 110 in stiff. 
 

I play 610 wedge shafts in 120 with my Tour V and the 610 on 125 with my 130 set up. 
 

another look would be the KBS $-Taper or the Dynamic Gold  120 x100 or KBS c-taper lite 

Edited October 9, 2022 by T_Golf_23

[Zena]

I play PX LZ and over the season, my transition has quickened. I think that’s because I prefer the active kick/feel of the shaft and a quicker transition helps exaggerate that feeling. It tells me I’ve loaded properly and usually results in a good outcome.

 

It sounds like you would prefer something much more stable with less give. Something with a solid handle and mid with a softer tip. Which to me screams Modus 130 if you want something in the 120g range.

 

Project X 5.0/5.5 are also solid choices.

 

KBS is a great manufacturer to look into for that kind of feel, plenty of recommendations are already given.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Zena

[Denny100]

10 hours ago, Ireland2 said:

Not sure whether it is just poor fittings but I get told almost comically polar opposite things when looking for suitable iron shafts. Still don’t think I have found “the” shaft for me.

 

What I know is that I’m an 80mph 7-iron, short backswing and fast transition. Consistent swing plane, -4 to 5 AoA, low single figure, not particularly strong, 50 years old. Play on firm turf. Low launch is my nemesis.

 

I can hit the Modus 120’s when I slow down and am deliberate, pausing at the top for what seems like an eternity (but clearly isn’t). They hate me when I revert to my norm.

 

Thank you all

Choose a shaft you like the feel of.

 

If you want more launch, tweak the lofts weaker. The static loft is irrelevant, its whatever you deliver to the ball.

 

You could also look at changing your ball potentially for more launch. Pro v1x for example has a little extra launch to it.

[samwedge]

Similar question here. I've used graphite shafts for 15 years because of tendonitis and as I've aged I've gradually dropped shaft weight. I'm 70yo with a 5 hcp but have been as low as 0.8 some 20 years ago. I've moved from 110g stiff graphite shaft years ago and I'm now down to an Aerotech Gener8 F3/60 which is a 66g regular shaft. All of this was an effort to keep swing speed up as I got older. I read somewhere recently that going too light could cause you to hit thin shots. I'm perpetually two-grooving it. However, when I hit it solid, the tendency is a slightly pulled draw. I'm now having to club for the mishit. I think I'd rather hit it solid even with a slower swing speed than guessing whether I might hit one solid. Does the theory of too light of a shaft tending towards thin shots make sense or should I just keep grinding on my swing? 

[T_Golf_23]

4 hours ago, samwedge said:

Similar question here. I've used graphite shafts for 15 years because of tendonitis and as I've aged I've gradually dropped shaft weight. I'm 70yo with a 5 hcp but have been as low as 0.8 some 20 years ago. I've moved from 110g stiff graphite shaft years ago and I'm now down to an Aerotech Gener8 F3/60 which is a 66g regular shaft. All of this was an effort to keep swing speed up as I got older. I read somewhere recently that going too light could cause you to hit thin shots. I'm perpetually two-grooving it. However, when I hit it solid, the tendency is a slightly pulled draw. I'm now having to club for the mishit. I think I'd rather hit it solid even with a slower swing speed than guessing whether I might hit one solid. Does the theory of too light of a shaft tending towards thin shots make sense or should I just keep grinding on my swing? 

The wrong shaft weight can cause you to be fat or thin….. it affect how you feel the club. 
 

Don’t keep grinding away with the wrong shaft. 

[tilasan]

If you like the weight of the modus 120 try modus 115 which will have a stiffer handle.

[ChaosTheory]

19 hours ago, samwedge said:

Similar question here. I've used graphite shafts for 15 years because of tendonitis and as I've aged I've gradually dropped shaft weight. I'm 70yo with a 5 hcp but have been as low as 0.8 some 20 years ago. I've moved from 110g stiff graphite shaft years ago and I'm now down to an Aerotech Gener8 F3/60 which is a 66g regular shaft. All of this was an effort to keep swing speed up as I got older. I read somewhere recently that going too light could cause you to hit thin shots. I'm perpetually two-grooving it. However, when I hit it solid, the tendency is a slightly pulled draw. I'm now having to club for the mishit. I think I'd rather hit it solid even with a slower swing speed than guessing whether I might hit one solid. Does the theory of too light of a shaft tending towards thin shots make sense or should I just keep grinding on my swing? 

Don’t keep grinding with that shaft.  Odds are you’ve gone too light.  I’m in the same boat, although my problem is not thin hits, it’s not enough feel to hit anything other than a full stock shot.  I’ve scheduled a fitting with a good fitter to try to find something that’s still easy to swing but with more control.

[dmeeksDC]

I’d say Project X Rifles 5.0 (110g) or Project X IO 5.5 (105g). Work well with aggressive transitions. Modus 120 would not be a good option.