What Bubba said

[farmer]

Bubba is saying that he and other PGA Tour pros got guaranteed money under the table to appear in certain tournaments.  He claims it is very common and every big attraction gets this money.  Certainly new to me, may cause a ruckus.

[QEight]

I thought appearance fees were "normal" for some players/tournaments?

[iBanesto]

On face value it doesn't sound any different to appearance fees.

 

But why "under the table"? Implies there is something nefarious.

 

What is the source?

[elwhippy]

Usually paid as a fee for doing a clinic or media work. Seve was the master of the appearance fee.

[MattyO1984]

Yeah, not exactly sure that this is news beyond Bubba simply trying to create issues. One of the worst kept secrets in golf. Give the guys an inordinate amount of money to turn up and do a clinic or a Q&A which just happens to be a day or so before a tournament at the same venue?! 

[tiderider]

Bubba watson is fos ... 

[Pastit]

1 hour ago, MattyO1984 said:

Yeah, not exactly sure that this is news beyond Bubba simply trying to create issues. One of the worst kept secrets in golf. Give the guys an inordinate amount of money to turn up and do a clinic or a Q&A which just happens to be a day or so before a tournament at the same venue?! 

I may be wrong but I believe appearance money is/ was “ legal  “ on the ET but not on the PGAT. The corollary being hypocrisy. 
 

Indeed, Seve was king of AM. 

[Holy Moses]

5 hours ago, QEight said:

I thought appearance fees were "normal" for some players/tournaments?

No, they aren’t supposed to be allowed on the PGA Tour. Companies kind of get around this by sponsoring a player and making them play at their tournament as part of the contract.

[Ferguson]

Remember the web forum guy that would post claiming Bubba's wife was not "feminine enough."  

 

[leezer99]

17 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

No, they aren’t supposed to be allowed on the PGA Tour. Companies kind of get around this by sponsoring a player and making them play at their tournament as part of the contract.

 

I've been hearing this on twitter and now on wrx. Are you able to cite the rule or point me to the source of this claim?

[TwistedSister]

2 hours ago, tiderider said:

Bubba watson is fos ... 

"FOS"?  Should be "FSO"  Factually spot on!

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

 

I've been hearing this on twitter and now on wrx. Are you able to cite the rule or point me to the source of this claim?

“In a statement to ESPN on Wednesday, the PGA Tour said it "prohibits the payment of appearance money to players as an inducement to play in a particular tournament.”

 

"We are aware that certain tournament sponsors may contract with a player to perform a sponsor-related activity during tournament week for which they receive nominal compensation," the PGA Tour statement said. "This is permissible under our guidelines."
 

Kevin Kisner, a member of the PGA Tour player advisory council, told ESPN that the money players receive at PGA Tour tournaments is different from what LIV Golf is doling out.

 

"I would not say that it's an appearance fee as much as a relationship between the player and the title sponsor or the host organization," Kisner said. "They're trying to get more money in players' hands through contracted appearances for tent visits or pro-ams away from the regular PGA Tour. It's been going on forever.

 

"If Travelers wants to pay Bubba Watson to go do a tent visit, that has nothing to do with the PGA Tour. You don't think Zurich in New Orleans is pressuring guys to play because they're sponsoring them on their sleeves? That's not an appearance fee. That's an off-course endorsement that's under contract. How many players does RBC have?"

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34934364/watson-puzzled-critics-questioning-liv-golf-guaranteed-money

 

Is Bubba saying that he was paid more than a nominal fee, didn’t do a clinic, and wasn’t sponsored by the tournament? Was it hundreds of thousands under the table to show up? If so, that probably goes against PGA Tour guidelines. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Holy Moses

[third-times-a-charm]

Nothing new. Players paid paid to go to invitationals and opposite field events and etc that wouldnt show up without the $$ in front of them and its not a secret. Same thing the DP tour does to get the big names over there with some guaranteed money just to make the journey.

 

When you see a T25 player or a household name player all of a sudden pop up at an event they never usually play or havent for a decade - there's your sign.

[smashdn]

6 hours ago, QEight said:

I thought appearance fees were "normal" for some players/tournaments?

 

I thought just the opposite.  Part of the "charm" of the PGAT was that you only got paid (officially) for what you won in the tournament.  (Plus your sponsorship stuff that is outside the tournament purse and PGAT purview.)

 

That was part of the hullabaloo about players playing in the middle east (and Asian) events on the DPWT where they were getting appearance fees.

[leezer99]

3 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

“In a statement to ESPN on Wednesday, the PGA Tour said it "prohibits the payment of appearance money to players as an inducement to play in a particular tournament.”

 

"We are aware that certain tournament sponsors may contract with a player to perform a sponsor-related activity during tournament week for which they receive nominal compensation," the PGA Tour statement said. "This is permissible under our guidelines."
 

Kevin Kisner, a member of the PGA Tour player advisory council, told ESPN that the money players receive at PGA Tour tournaments is different from what LIV Golf is doling out.

 

"I would not say that it's an appearance fee as much as a relationship between the player and the title sponsor or the host organization," Kisner said. "They're trying to get more money in players' hands through contracted appearances for tent visits or pro-ams away from the regular PGA Tour. It's been going on forever.

 

"If Travelers wants to pay Bubba Watson to go do a tent visit, that has nothing to do with the PGA Tour. You don't think Zurich in New Orleans is pressuring guys to play because they're sponsoring them on their sleeves? That's not an appearance fee. That's an off-course endorsement that's under contract. How many players does RBC have?"

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34934364/watson-puzzled-critics-questioning-liv-golf-guaranteed-money

 

Is Bubba saying that he was paid more than a nominal fee, didn’t do a clinic, and wasn’t sponsored by the tournament? Was it hundreds of thousands under the table to show up? If so, that probably goes against PGA Tour guidelines. 

 

Devil's advocate, but all I'm reading here is that Bubba broke the rules for accepting payment and not the PGA Tour because they didn't pay him. If there's payment confirmation from the PGA to Bubba then maybe he has a case but I doubt he can provide that.

[smashdn]

3 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Devil's advocate, but all I'm reading here is that Bubba broke the rules for accepting payment and not the PGA Tour because they didn't pay him. If there's payment confirmation from the PGA to Bubba then maybe he has a case but I doubt he can provide that.

 

His gripe was he didn't get paid his PIP money due to not being able to fulfil the additional obligations set forth by the PGAT to receive that full dollar amount due to the PGAT cancelling the events he needed to be present at.

 

I don't know how true or untrue those allegations are, but that was how I interpreted what he said and what I read.

[Holy Moses]

13 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Nothing new. Players paid paid to go to invitationals and opposite field events and etc that wouldnt show up without the $$ in front of them and its not a secret. Same thing the DP tour does to get the big names over there with some guaranteed money just to make the journey.

 

When you see a T25 player or a household name player all of a sudden pop up at an event they never usually play or havent for a decade - there's your sign.

This is definitely something new for the PGA Tour. I had never heard of this under the table kind of appearance fee. The DP Tour allows appearance fees which is why they have smaller purses. 

[Holy Moses]

5 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

His gripe was he didn't get paid his PIP money due to not being able to fulfil the additional obligations set forth by the PGAT to receive that full dollar amount due to the PGAT cancelling the events he needed to be present at.

 

I don't know how true or untrue those allegations are, but that was how I interpreted what he said and what I read.

Bryson is saying the same thing

[smashdn]

3 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Bryson is saying the same thing

 

I knew Bryson had said he was owed half of his PIP money but never read anywhere where he had went into detail as to why.

[Holy Moses]

8 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I knew Bryson had said he was owed half of his PIP money but never read anywhere where he had went into detail as to why.

 

According to the interview with ESPN, DeChambeau claims he received the first payment in February. But there were two requirements for receiving the second payment: Compete in a Tour event he hadn’t played in during the previous four seasons (designed to help field strength at an event that had lacked the individual’s star power) and make an appearance at a charity event.

 

DeChambeau, who won eight times on Tour including the 2020 U.S. Open, played in the Valero Texas Open to fulfill the first requirement. He told ESPN he tried to check off the second box by participating at a charity event for First Tee in Dallas next month. DeChambeau said he was told by the Tour the appearance wouldn’t fulfill the requirement because he is no longer a Tour member “in good standing.”

 

“They said because you’re not in good standing, we’re not allowing you to do something to help out junior golf and junior golfers,” DeChambeau said. “To me, that’s childish. It just shows where they stand emotionally. I respect and understand it, but when you’ve completed something and provided entertainment for them last year, that’s the reason I’m in the lawsuit.”

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/10/28/liv-bryson-dechambeau-bubba-watson-pga-tour-pip-money-lawsuit/

Edited November 3, 2022 by Holy Moses

[golfortennis]

20 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

This is definitely something new for the PGA Tour. I had never heard of this under the table kind of appearance fee. The DP Tour allows appearance fees which is why they have smaller purses. 

 

It started out as doing a clinic that week, coincidentally sponsored by the tournament sponsor, then it morphed to just sponsoring the player and there being an understanding the player would play in their tournaments.  "Team RBC" for example.  Care to guess where those guys would be when the Heritage or Canadian Open were on?  And when Buick was heavy into golf sponsorship, both players and tournaments.  What was there, San Diego, Michigan, one Georgia, Virginia...  Woods played in the one in Flint for heaven's sake.   No way he plays that event ever if Buick wasn't on his bag.

 

This has been going on for years.  The PGA Tour's "no appearance fee" rules are similar to all leagues drug rules:  there for show, but don't worry there is nothing behind that curtain, no need to look under the covers.

[third-times-a-charm]

4 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

It started out as doing a clinic that week, coincidentally sponsored by the tournament sponsor, then it morphed to just sponsoring the player and there being an understanding the player would play in their tournaments.  "Team RBC" for example.  Care to guess where those guys would be when the Heritage or Canadian Open were on?  And when Buick was heavy into golf sponsorship, both players and tournaments.  What was there, San Diego, Michigan, one Georgia, Virginia...  Woods played in the one in Flint for heaven's sake.   No way he plays that event ever if Buick wasn't on his bag.

 

This has been going on for years.  The PGA Tour's "no appearance fee" rules are similar to all leagues drug rules:  there for show, but don't worry there is nothing behind that curtain, no need to look under the covers.

It's like NIL for college sports players getting paid, now;

 

"We're not paying the player to come here [XYZ School or XYZ PGA Tournament]...we're paying them to appear at charity events after they're here!"

[Pastit]

20 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

 

According to the interview with ESPN, DeChambeau claims he received the first payment in February. But there were two requirements for receiving the second payment: Compete in a Tour event he hadn’t played in during the previous four seasons (designed to help field strength at an event that had lacked the individual’s star power) and make an appearance at a charity event.

 

DeChambeau, who won eight times on Tour including the 2020 U.S. Open, played in the Valero Texas Open to fulfill the first requirement. He told ESPN he tried to check off the second box by participating at a charity event for First Tee in Dallas next month. DeChambeau said he was told by the Tour the appearance wouldn’t fulfill the requirement because he is no longer a Tour member “in good standing.”

 

“They said because you’re not in good standing, we’re not allowing you to do something to help out junior golf and junior golfers,” DeChambeau said. “To me, that’s childish. It just shows where they stand emotionally. I respect and understand it, but when you’ve completed something and provided entertainment for them last year, that’s the reason I’m in the lawsuit.”

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/10/28/liv-bryson-dechambeau-bubba-watson-pga-tour-pip-money-lawsuit/

In the U.K. I believe we would state that the contract was “ frustrated “ and remedies might be agreed in the contract/s. If the latter are silent on remedies, which I doubt, Common Law remedies may apply. 

[leezer99]

38 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

 

According to the interview with ESPN, DeChambeau claims he received the first payment in February. But there were two requirements for receiving the second payment: Compete in a Tour event he hadn’t played in during the previous four seasons (designed to help field strength at an event that had lacked the individual’s star power) and make an appearance at a charity event.

 

DeChambeau, who won eight times on Tour including the 2020 U.S. Open, played in the Valero Texas Open to fulfill the first requirement. He told ESPN he tried to check off the second box by participating at a charity event for First Tee in Dallas next month. DeChambeau said he was told by the Tour the appearance wouldn’t fulfill the requirement because he is no longer a Tour member “in good standing.”

 

“They said because you’re not in good standing, we’re not allowing you to do something to help out junior golf and junior golfers,” DeChambeau said. “To me, that’s childish. It just shows where they stand emotionally. I respect and understand it, but when you’ve completed something and provided entertainment for them last year, that’s the reason I’m in the lawsuit.”

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/10/28/liv-bryson-dechambeau-bubba-watson-pga-tour-pip-money-lawsuit/

 

To be fair, this is pretty common in business. Lots of sales folks will hit their quarterly quota but if they leave or get terminated prior to payout they don't get it.

[aus10KC]

But weren't we hearing how it's not fair that these guys show up and could not get paid because they miss a cut? I guess that is not the case for players with 'star power'... 

 

All of this is just gross. It's a stupid game! A game that I love to play, and watch in amazement the top level of play. I'm starting to not like some of these players whining and complaining, not a good look at all. 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

It started out as doing a clinic that week, coincidentally sponsored by the tournament sponsor, then it morphed to just sponsoring the player and there being an understanding the player would play in their tournaments.  "Team RBC" for example.  Care to guess where those guys would be when the Heritage or Canadian Open were on?  And when Buick was heavy into golf sponsorship, both players and tournaments.  What was there, San Diego, Michigan, one Georgia, Virginia...  Woods played in the one in Flint for heaven's sake.   No way he plays that event ever if Buick wasn't on his bag.

 

This has been going on for years.  The PGA Tour's "no appearance fee" rules are similar to all leagues drug rules:  there for show, but don't worry there is nothing behind that curtain, no need to look under the covers.

At least the PGA Tour’s way of circumventing appearance fees doesn’t take it right off the purse like it does on the DP Tour. We’ve always known that you can be sponsored by tournament X and in your contract you have to play their tournament. The question is if what Bubba said to ESPN  is that kind of thing or straight cash directly to the player without being sponsored.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Holy Moses

[Holy Moses]

38 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

To be fair, this is pretty common in business. Lots of sales folks will hit their quarterly quota but if they leave or get terminated prior to payout they don't get it.

Or they quit on January 1st so they are guaranteed last year’s bonus

[Rapidcat]

6 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Or they quit on January 1st so they are guaranteed last year’s bonus

And sometimes have to go legal to get their money.

 

Once you're out, your ex-employer cares a lot less about you.

[Avidswampthing66]

Hubba Bubba is basically telling us how he justifies his choices.  It's really that simple.  IF THEY DID IT, I CAN DO IT NOW AND IT'LL ALL BE OK!   I can't wait for this preschool s*** show to be over.  It's exhausting.

[dropkicked]

LoL

Talk was that Tiger, received a $1million fee for playing in the Canadian Open back in 2000..