What Bubba said

[farmer]

I'm old and naive.  I have always thought you showed up, played well, got paid or played not so well and went home.  This takes a little luster off the idea of pure competition.

[subrew]

29 minutes ago, farmer said:

I'm old and naive.  I have always thought you showed up, played well, got paid or played not so well and went home.  This takes a little luster off the idea of pure competition.

 

Even the Euro/DP Tour is jumping on the guaranteed money train:

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/63497148

[jdl]

51 minutes ago, farmer said:

I'm old and naive.  I have always thought you showed up, played well, got paid or played not so well and went home.  This takes a little luster off the idea of pure competition.

We fans love the pure meritocracy. Players? Not so much. And they're getting what they wanted now. Can't really blame 'em.

[Stevens24]

So in a different sport Motocross/Supercross a competitive series emerged this season and all of a sudden the money in the traditional series went up substantially. LIV has done the same for golf. Anyone who thinks that the money and now guarantees on the DP and PGA Tour would have happened without LIV are crazy. 

 

The Meritocracy is gone and that might change how players approach playing.  As far as Bubba's claim I have no doubt it happens in some manner or another. Which could violate the Not for profit status. 

[RichieHunt]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

“In a statement to ESPN on Wednesday, the PGA Tour said it "prohibits the payment of appearance money to players as an inducement to play in a particular tournament.”

 

"We are aware that certain tournament sponsors may contract with a player to perform a sponsor-related activity during tournament week for which they receive nominal compensation," the PGA Tour statement said. "This is permissible under our guidelines."
 

Kevin Kisner, a member of the PGA Tour player advisory council, told ESPN that the money players receive at PGA Tour tournaments is different from what LIV Golf is doling out.

 

"I would not say that it's an appearance fee as much as a relationship between the player and the title sponsor or the host organization," Kisner said. "They're trying to get more money in players' hands through contracted appearances for tent visits or pro-ams away from the regular PGA Tour. It's been going on forever.

 

"If Travelers wants to pay Bubba Watson to go do a tent visit, that has nothing to do with the PGA Tour. You don't think Zurich in New Orleans is pressuring guys to play because they're sponsoring them on their sleeves? That's not an appearance fee. That's an off-course endorsement that's under contract. How many players does RBC have?"

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34934364/watson-puzzled-critics-questioning-liv-golf-guaranteed-money

 

Is Bubba saying that he was paid more than a nominal fee, didn’t do a clinic, and wasn’t sponsored by the tournament? Was it hundreds of thousands under the table to show up? If so, that probably goes against PGA Tour guidelines. 

 

Yes, anybody who knows anything about the PGA Tour knew this and for Bubba Watson to make it sound like this clandestine scandalous dealing and for people to buy into this is pure comedy if it weren't for it being propaganda...again from the LIVT people.

 

It's long been ridiculous to see the LIVT try to come up with these 'gotchya' moments and scenarios and fall flat on their face, time and time again.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Dutch1008]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

 

According to the interview with ESPN, DeChambeau claims he received the first payment in February. But there were two requirements for receiving the second payment: Compete in a Tour event he hadn’t played in during the previous four seasons (designed to help field strength at an event that had lacked the individual’s star power) and make an appearance at a charity event.

 

DeChambeau, who won eight times on Tour including the 2020 U.S. Open, played in the Valero Texas Open to fulfill the first requirement. He told ESPN he tried to check off the second box by participating at a charity event for First Tee in Dallas next month. DeChambeau said he was told by the Tour the appearance wouldn’t fulfill the requirement because he is no longer a Tour member “in good standing.”

 

“They said because you’re not in good standing, we’re not allowing you to do something to help out junior golf and junior golfers,” DeChambeau said. “To me, that’s childish. It just shows where they stand emotionally. I respect and understand it, but when you’ve completed something and provided entertainment for them last year, that’s the reason I’m in the lawsuit.”

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/10/28/liv-bryson-dechambeau-bubba-watson-pga-tour-pip-money-lawsuit/

Bryson is an idiot. This situation is almost universal. Every bonus I have ever received included a requirement to be employed at the time of payment. This wasn't hidden and everybody knew about it. In fact, you could practically guaranty that a handful of people would quit every year the day after bonuses were paid. I've have a number of hiring targets tell me they couldn't start until X date because they had a bonus payment due. This is common place and most definitely is in the details of the PGA PIP program. Bryson should have a conversation with his agents for not understanding his contracts. 

 

And this...

 

“They said because you’re not in good standing, we’re not allowing you to do something to help out junior golf and junior golfers,”

 

Uhh, the PGAT isn't stopping you from doing charity work. If you want to help out Jr golf and Jr golfers, you most certainly can. You made a personal decision to take a new job and walk away from the requirements and compensation of your old one.   

 

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, Stevens24 said:

So in a different sport Motocross/Supercross a competitive series emerged this season and all of a sudden the money in the traditional series went up substantially. LIV has done the same for golf. Anyone who thinks that the money and now guarantees on the DP and PGA Tour would have happened without LIV are crazy. 

 

The Meritocracy is gone and that might change how players approach playing.  As far as Bubba's claim I have no doubt it happens in some manner or another. Which could violate the Not for profit status. 

Monahan said purses were going to sizably increase once the new TV deal went into place. LIV sped the process up. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Holy Moses

[Rob G 89]

Nothin new here I believe tiger and Phil got hefty sums from Jim justice for an hour clinic to play the greenbrier where they both missed the cut 

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

To be fair, this is pretty common in business. Lots of sales folks will hit their quarterly quota but if they leave or get terminated prior to payout they don't get it.

Same thing for a "Safety Bonus" for truck drivers and other blue collar type workers.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

Monahan said purses were going to sizably increase once the new TV deal went into place. LIV sped the process up. 

 

Monahan also said no cut events were exhibitions, and then added a bunch to the schedule.

 

As with all politicians, watch they do, not what they say.

[bcjim]

53 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Monahan also said no cut events were exhibitions, and then added a bunch to the schedule.

 

As with all politicians, watch they do, not what they say.

Which events are you referring to that were not previously no cut, and that he added, and that are official events?

[leezer99]

7 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Or they quit on January 1st so they are guaranteed last year’s bonus

I work at a fortune 100 and you need to be employed on the date of payment which is usually six weeks past the end of the quarter. YMMV

[bladehunter]

Why would this cause a ruckus ?   Tiger and Rory been getting gauranteed money to go play pga events overseas.  “ grow the game “ remember?  Not a new thing 

[Stevens24]

Interesting that after next season only 70 players will be fully exempt. The rest have to qualify though the fall series. 

[MtlJeff]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I work at a fortune 100 and you need to be employed on the date of payment which is usually six weeks past the end of the quarter. YMMV

 

Every company is different but it's certainly common what you describe. I'm also at a similar size company and it all comes down to the contract, also bonus vs commission etc since those can be different languages 

 

I'm sure if the tour didn't pay Bubba it's because the contract they felt had some outs

 

Definitely wouldn't be the first time a company did that 

[Avidswampthing66]

6 hours ago, bcjim said:

Which events are you referring to that were not previously no cut, and that he added, and that are official events?

 

7 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Monahan also said no cut events were exhibitions, and then added a bunch to the schedule.

 

As with all politicians, watch they do, not what they say.

I’m also curious to know which bunch of events you are referring too.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Avidswampthing66

[smashdn]

18 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Yes, anybody who knows anything about the PGA Tour knew this...

 

Except for there are plenty who thump their chest (on these forums) that the PGAT has no guaranteed money.  So either they conveniently forget or don't know anything as you say.

[smashdn]

I worked at a company that paid out profit sharing.  Company was not doing well (culturally, financially they were fine) and employees as a whole were disgruntled.  I believe they purposefully delayed the payout of the previous year's (calendar year) bonus so there was not a mass exodus after paying in Q1 of the next calendar year.  As I recall it was May when the bonus was finally paid out.  Every month at the company "all hands" meeting the president trotted the accounting manager out front of everyone where he was crucified by employees on the anticipated payments.

[Cali_Stinger77]

This is common sense/well known and Bubba is acting like he exposed something. I highly doubt Jordan Spieth wants to play 4 6hr rounds at Pebble every year but AT&T is paying him good $$$ as a sponsor so he's gonna do it. 

[smashdn]

$500k > $150k

 

Come on DPWT, pick up the pace.

[Zitlow]

22 hours ago, dropkicked said:

LoL

Talk was that Tiger, received a $1million fee for playing in the Canadian Open back in 2000..

Say it ain't so. 

[Zitlow]

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money] Croupier: Your winnings, sir. Captain Renault: Oh, thank you very much.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Zitlow

[Duffer Mark]

Ironically, if Watson meant his revelation as a slam against the integrity of the PGAT, is is just as much of a slam against his own.

[leezer99]

14 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

Ironically, if Watson meant his revelation as a slam against the integrity of the PGAT, is is just as much of a slam against his own.

The PR team for LIV needs to go even before Sharky. It’s like they can’t see the implications of their words and actions past their nose. I’m starting to think that the PGAT holding the player media rights is more to protect them from themselves than to make money from. 

[jt2gt]

21 hours ago, Rob G 89 said:

Nothin new here I believe tiger and Phil got hefty sums from Jim justice for an hour clinic to play the greenbrier where they both missed the cut 

OMG...I thought all those videos you see of Tiger smiling and yucking it up showing off his bubbly personality with the kids and adults at those cheesy clinics was just out of the goodness of his heart and how much he loves all the fans.  My oh my, my Tiger bubble has been burst.

Edited November 4, 2022 by jt2gt

[MtlJeff]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:18 AM, dropkicked said:

LoL

Talk was that Tiger, received a $1million fee for playing in the Canadian Open back in 2000..

 

Thats a pittance for Canada and our vast oil wealth. Lots more where that came from, as anyone who has visited the Burj Edmonton Tower can attest. 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, jt2gt said:

OMG...I thought all those videos you see of Tiger smiling and yucking it up showing off his bubbly personality with the kids and adults at those cheesy clinics was just out of the goodness of his heart and how much he loves all the fans.  My oh my, my Tiger bubble has been burst.

 

No no no.  That's every *other* player.  Woods being the messiah, that was all genuine, and it was sad when the security people had to drag him away when he was ready to do a couple more hours each time.  

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

The PR team for LIV needs to go even before Sharky. It’s like they can’t see the implications of their words and actions past their nose. I’m starting to think that the PGAT holding the player media rights is more to protect them from themselves than to make money from. 

They’ll just deny that they were on the record which is what they do every time they step in it

[Dpavs]

[Golferpaul]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:57 AM, Pastit said:

I may be wrong but I believe appearance money is/ was “ legal  “ on the ET but not on the PGAT. The corollary being hypocrisy. 
 

Indeed, Seve was king of AM. 

No, it's not illegal.  Because the PGAT pays appearance money.  For example, every player in the PGAT Championship is guaranteed to get a big paycheck.  And everybody in the Dell Match PLay event gets a paycheck.