World cup

[golfortennis]

Just now, scruffynick said:

That was horrible thou....euro 96 ended with a golden goal, very strange feeling when it just ended 

 

Why?  Each team had 90 minutes to win the game.  If you can't win the match in that time, why should you get a chance when you concede in extra time?

[NRJyzr]

Agree with our scruffy brother, Golden Goal is an abomination in the eyes of the gods.

 

If it matters to the discussion, I'm US born.

 

[golfortennis]

Why is it an abomination?  

[nsxguy]

44 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

Agree with our scruffy brother, Golden Goal is an abomination in the eyes of the gods.

 

If it matters to the discussion, I'm US born.

 

 

OK, I admit it. I hadda look it up.

 

Sudden death. Yep, that's what I meant.

 

Play until you drop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, OR a goal is scored. 🙃

[baudi]

So I remember Mario Kempes scoring, Maradona passing to Burruchaga and scoring, Tardelli scoring and cheering; that never ending boring match between Italy and Germany; the crazy red card of Zidane; another lost final by the Dutch; the brilliant play of Modric in 2018. etc etc. But what will I remember of today? My memory is vivid but my judgment instantly stopped working.          

 

     

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by baudi

[mshills]

I’ve been a soccer fan from the days where we had to get boot leg VHS and Beta tapes from friends, and I’ve not seen a crazier match than today. Incredible, had everything!

 

How could you not become a soccer fan after seeing that match?

[iBanesto]

12 hours ago, scruffynick said:

That was horrible thou....euro 96 ended with a golden goal, very strange feeling when it just ended 

 

Good times.

 

 

[scruffynick]

3 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

Good times.

 

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Moller, what a player but England twice missed sitters still hurt.....oh what could have been 

[scruffynick]

16 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Why?  Each team had 90 minutes to win the game.  If you can't win the match in that time, why should you get a chance when you concede in extra time?

It was 1-1 at 90 mins, golden goal was in extra time....it meant no team really wanted to attack because they were scared to death of conceding.....the final just ended, was a strange feeling. 

Best solution I've heard is play 20 minutes, no winner swap ends and it's play til there's a winner... basically it's golden goal but they've had 20 minutes to try and win. Penalties is great drama but it's for me right to see a world cup winner on penalties....same with the CL even i was in Moscow to see United win it, the emotions of that penalty shout out is still with me today.....was just painful 😖

[cardia10]

I'm in no way a soccer fan but that was fun to watch for sure. I'm still not a fan, but a championship played at that level in any sport is fun to watch!

[Petethreeput]

If I were the tsar of FIFA I would play 90, then 30, then go to sudden death.  In my eyes, France didn't lose the game, they lost the skills competition at the end of the game.

 

I also hope they don't do it in the winter, and I suspect they won't be able to pull it off again.  I can't see La Liga, Premier League, etc. standing for it a second time.  Similar to the Olympics and ice hockey.  The NHL doesn't want it at all, and by dollar amounts, the NHL is small potatoes.

 

Seeing a lot conversation with Messi as the GOAT now.  Any thoughts on this?  I suspect NIck will opine its Beckham (kidding... I hope).  It is so hard to compare across eras, but what does everyone think?

[mshills]

For the record, I am not old enough to have seen much of Pele, certainly not in his prime.  I did see both Maradona and Messi, and it would be impossible for me to name one over the other.  No chance.  So in the trinity of Pele, Messi, Maradona, they are three in one, the great-ests.  🙂 

 

If forced, I'd select Messi, and loudly qualify that with recency bias.

 

I'd put Zidane, Best, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ronaldo et. al. in a logjam behind the trinity.

Edited December 19, 2022 by mshills

[Petethreeput]

I didn't see Pele or any others of that era in their prime, but as I tend to do when stacking up the greats is to measure if they changed the game, or how it is/was being played.

Deep down, without much to go on, I have always thought of Beckenbauer as doing this.  When he was no longer fast enough he created his own position which was used for 20 years before the Brazilians took the world by storm with the flat back 4.

But Pele played back when the ball was akin to a pumpkin.  Over the past 20 years they have gone to the sealed seams to promote knuckling as well as increase the velocity of the ball 15% from the Tangos of the 80's, so Messi absolutely has that advantage.  Whether 80% of all goals are scored inside the penalty mark, just having the ability to shoot from further out is a big deal because it requires the defense to step up sooner creating more space.

Maradona was always tough for me.  I don't think I ever, and I mean ever, saw him touch the ball with his right foot unless it couldn't be helped and I always thought the best players had to be capable with both feet.

Then comes Platini and Zidane, they were wizards.  So was Cryuff.  It is really the impossible question, but I asked the question so I have to stick my oar in, though like MShills, it is simply opinion:

 

Messi, if not for any other reason than longevity of production, but I could pick a lot of folks.

[golfortennis]

5 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

If I were the tsar of FIFA I would play 90, then 30, then go to sudden death.  In my eyes, France didn't lose the game, they lost the skills competition at the end of the game.

 

I also hope they don't do it in the winter, and I suspect they won't be able to pull it off again.  I can't see La Liga, Premier League, etc. standing for it a second time.  Similar to the Olympics and ice hockey.  The NHL doesn't want it at all, and by dollar amounts, the NHL is small potatoes.

 

Seeing a lot conversation with Messi as the GOAT now.  Any thoughts on this?  I suspect NIck will opine its Beckham (kidding... I hope).  It is so hard to compare across eras, but what does everyone think?

 

I think there are some differences though with the NHL.  It's only relatively recently that NHL players were playing in that tournament, whereas the world cup has been happening for 80 years.  

 

The NHL owners don't want the Olympics under the conditions the IOC imposes.  Namely, the NHL cannot use any images from any games to promote the sport, and secondly(or firstly depending on your POV), the owners are expected to shoulder any insurance costs.  Given the contracts some guys have, you're looking at millions in insurance premiums.  So the owner is expected to give up his player for a time, run the risk of injury(ask the Islanders if they would have rather than John Tavares healthy for the rest of 2014 season, or if the insurance made it ok), pay that fee, all for the ability to not use anything from that tournament.  There's a saying about not using any lube that fits here.

 

Soccer has always had this as part of the equation.  I'd be curious to know if the leagues are willing to consider this.  Given the turf wars breaking out in soccer(UEFA threatening to break away from FIFA), who knows what will happen.  I know I watched more because I have been inside more than I would be in summer, but that's n=1.

 

Tough to say on Messi.  Tough to hold not winning the world cup against a guy, given a)you need to be born in a country that is strong in soccer, and then b)the team needs to be good.  But holy crap, is that man a magician with the ball on his foot. 

 

[scruffynick]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:47 PM, Petethreeput said:

If I were the tsar of FIFA I would play 90, then 30, then go to sudden death.  In my eyes, France didn't lose the game, they lost the skills competition at the end of the game.

 

I also hope they don't do it in the winter, and I suspect they won't be able to pull it off again.  I can't see La Liga, Premier League, etc. standing for it a second time.  Similar to the Olympics and ice hockey.  The NHL doesn't want it at all, and by dollar amounts, the NHL is small potatoes.

 

Seeing a lot conversation with Messi as the GOAT now.  Any thoughts on this?  I suspect NIck will opine its Beckham (kidding... I hope).  It is so hard to compare across eras, but what does everyone think?

Messi is there for sure even without a world cup win but to many it cements it.....but for me, maradona was the greatest. He did things which were beyond anything I've seen...took decent sides and single handedly won them titles. 86 was stunning, and his time at Napoli was just unbelievable.

For the other greats and true greats are the usual Pele, Cruyff, Best, Zidane none have come close to what they did....sorry Ronaldo you're just a great goal scorer not a true great player......not in top 5 man utd greats to be honest 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, scruffynick said:

Messi is there for sure even without a world cup win but to many it cements it.....but for me, maradona was the greatest. He did things which were beyond anything I've seen...took decent sides and single handedly won them titles. 86 was stunning, and his time at Napoli was just unbelievable.

For the other greats and true greats are the usual Pele, Cruyff, Best, Zidane none have come close to what they did....sorry Ronaldo you're just a great goal scorer not a true great player......not in top 5 man utd greats to be honest 

 

Who else can make a ball change direction that is nowhere near his head, body or feet?  😀

[scruffynick]

14 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Who else can make a ball change direction that is nowhere near his head, body or feet?  😀

Ha ha....aye was a very upset 10 year old at the time. Watch it now and I can't still believe the ref and linesman never saw it.....or did they 🤔

[NRJyzr]

I admit the Hand of God goal 🤢 is a big part of why I can't celebrate Maradona's level of play.  Call it a disqualifying moment, at least in my eyes...

 

[bobfoster]

I've been watching the World Cup since I was a boy (almost as long as I've been playing golf). This was, without a doubt, the most exciting final I've ever seen. A game for the ages.