Colorado WRX 2023

[ASak10]

30 minutes ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Oh yeah, definitely not saying there is one proper way to swing a club, I shouldn't have said it that way. But, for me, like I used to really stall my hips out through impact, raise the handle, early extend, all that classic stuff, and when I "got fit," fitter would always say I was toe down and needed anywhere from 2 to 5 degrees upright. But I want to improve and swing better, not get gear for my faults, so I got standard length, lie clubs that will force me to get into better positions. Also, I had a tendency with irons to stay on right side, come in too shallow, hit just ever so slightly fat, and there's a lot of clubs designed to let you get away with that with fatter soles, but I want that meaty, compressed, penetrating flight, so I don't want a club to let me get away with fat contact, I  want a club to teach me to hit it properly.

 

I also understand that lots of people swing the way they swing, it would be too hard to change and they just want to play the best they can with the swing they have, so they get clubs that help them play the best. So many ways to play and enjoy golf. 

 

Makes a lot of sense.  And amen to that! Whatever makes it fun for someone, I'm all for it.  

[jda]

If you are only losing 10-15 yards, you might be able to find a ball to make that up and keep the accuracy.  I like ProV1x being firm and the launch, but I can grab that much distance just by playing OG ProV1 for a day.  The both spin about the same to me with the irons and wedges.

 

I think that people forget to factor in a new ball when they get new clubs.  You can optimize if you do both.

[Dancin]

If you can be 265-280 yards in the fairway 90% of the time there's no reason to even mess with your driver. While I can occasionally get 300 yard drives with my driver set at 9.5, I spend the majority of the year at 10.5 and only switch when I've been playing amazing recently and I probably shouldn't even do it then either because the penalty on mishits is exponential.

[ASak10]

33 minutes ago, jda said:

If you are only losing 10-15 yards, you might be able to find a ball to make that up and keep the accuracy.  I like ProV1x being firm and the launch, but I can grab that much distance just by playing OG ProV1 for a day.  The both spin about the same to me with the irons and wedges.

 

I think that people forget to factor in a new ball when they get new clubs.  You can optimize if you do both.

 

You are definitely right, didn't even think about that.  I play the current ProV1, maybe switching to the x or left dash would make some up.  Good thought.  

 

33 minutes ago, Dancin said:

If you can be 265-280 yards in the fairway 90% of the time there's no reason to even mess with your driver. While I can occasionally get 300 yard drives with my driver set at 9.5, I spend the majority of the year at 10.5 and only switch when I've been playing amazing recently and I probably shouldn't even do it then either because the penalty on mishits is exponential.

 

You know, this is another thing I didn't consider and maybe should play around with first...my current driver is 9.0 and I've always had it set to that.  Maybe bumping it up to 10 or 10.5 would make a difference.  Probably not enough of a difference but if I'm playing around with something new anyway, could be worth it.  

[bobbyclampett!!]

4 hours ago, ASak10 said:

 

You are definitely right, didn't even think about that.  I play the current ProV1, maybe switching to the x or left dash would make some up.  Good thought.  

 

 

You know, this is another thing I didn't consider and maybe should play around with first...my current driver is 9.0 and I've always had it set to that.  Maybe bumping it up to 10 or 10.5 would make a difference.  Probably not enough of a difference but if I'm playing around with something new anyway, could be worth it.  

To me, the difference between 9 and 10.5 is pretty significant. At 10.5 I feel like I can see the face, and the look of the face makes me feel like I can swing pretty easy and get a good launch. At 9, I can’t see as much of the face, it feels more like a long drive driver and subconsciously it makes me feel like I need to kill it to launch it right. I don’t know, definitely worth messing around with. And, of course, just as a matter of physics, I believe the higher the loft the more the ball wants to go straight. (That’s why it’s easier to hit a wedge straight than a 4iron). 

[Dancin]

7 hours ago, ASak10 said:

You know, this is another thing I didn't consider and maybe should play around with first...my current driver is 9.0 and I've always had it set to that.  Maybe bumping it up to 10 or 10.5 would make a difference.  Probably not enough of a difference but if I'm playing around with something new anyway, could be worth it.  

Adding loft adds forgiveness. Only thing to be aware of is if you increase loft on an adjustable driver, it tends to make it slightly easier to draw the ball and the opposite occurs when reducing loft. Generally most won't notice it unless they currently have movable weights set at an extreme edge at the previous loft setting.

[deadsolid...shank]

I had forgotten about the stats on the GHIN app. Pretty cool to see what they show. 
 

 

[Joelness]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:18 AM, jda said:

Gotta admit... I am one of those people who might go and hit 250-300 balls in a session - all driver.  I do this for conditioning, though, and do not care about learning or working on anything.  No better way to get a bit sore and right back in the swing of things.  I will usually hit until something starts to hurt.

 

Whew, maybe I swing too hard but this would be awful for my swing. I get a little tired 10-15 swings into driver and tired swings are not good swings.

19 hours ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

I got on a Trackman multiple times outdoors this year with a fitter, and they were ALWAYS looking to optimize DISTANCE, even after I said "I DON'T WANT TO OPTIMIZE FOR DISTANCE, I WANT TO OPTIMIZE FOR FAIRWAYS!" (According to Arccos, scratch golfers average 259 yards off of par 4s and 5s... +3.0 handicaps average 269 off par 4s and 5s. You do not need to hit it that far to play good golf.) And yeah, my spin was slightly higher than what Trackman told me was "optimal," and yeah, I am not getting the occasional hot low spinning flat bomb that goes 330, but I don't miss that at all! I love the fairway!

 

So, bottom line, I wouldn't listen to your fitter about your sping being "too high." Hit the club you like, hit more fairways, have more fun, shoot lower scores!

 

This does drive me crazy too. Especially in iron fittings since the goal is consistency, not more distance.

[bobbyclampett!!]

9 hours ago, Dancin said:

Adding loft adds forgiveness. Only thing to be aware of is if you increase loft on an adjustable driver, it tends to make it slightly easier to draw the ball and the opposite occurs when reducing loft. Generally most won't notice it unless they currently have movable weights set at an extreme edge at the previous loft setting.

I agree with @Dancin that increasing or decreasing loft with sleeve adaptors does more than just adjust loft. In fact, adjusting the hosel setting doesn’t actually increase or decrease the loft of the head itself, as the loft on the head itself is always the same. Adjusting the hosel just makes the face more open or closed, and then when you square it from the open or closed position, you are adding or taking away loft. I actually like to play my 10.5 Paradym in the -1 setting not to decrease the loft, but rather to have the face more open at address and increase my confidence that I am never going to draw the ball or see any right to left movement. 

[Joelness]

18 hours ago, jda said:

The above reminded me... are there any good fitters in town?  I usually have contempt for most of them as shaft-swappers and number readers that do more harm than good for many folks.  Anybody who can take a look at a swing & results, see what you should be doing and then recommend something?  These folks used to exist before all of the machines came out - these people needed no GCQ or TM.  Now it seems that nobody fits you to improve your game, but rather how you did for a few swings in one day.  Are good teachers/coaches going to be the best for this still?  I would love a name if anybody has one.

 

Ironically the best fitters I've been around recently are actually two demo days guys. They are both tournament golfers that I have played with previously. One of them is Sam Marley and is an ex-UNC golfer and one of the best mid-ams in CO. He works for Taylormade.

 

The other guy, Sam Solomon, I ran into this year for the first time in 3-4 years when he showed up at Fox doing demos for Mizuno.

 

BTW, so pumped with my Pro 221/223 combo set, they're so good. I really love how well blades get through the rough, it's awesome.

18 hours ago, Dancin said:

If you can be 265-280 yards in the fairway 90% of the time there's no reason to even mess with your driver. While I can occasionally get 300 yard drives with my driver set at 9.5, I spend the majority of the year at 10.5 and only switch when I've been playing amazing recently and I probably shouldn't even do it then either because the penalty on mishits is exponential.

 

I broke my Stealth this year right before the match play and my pro only had a 9* for me to use until the replacement came in. Holy crap I can't do the 9* at all. I not only lost 20-30 yards of distance but I also had worse dispersion. The launch was too low and no matter how I swung it I couldn't bring it up. I don't think I will ever go back to less than 10.5. 

[deadsolid...shank]

My range sessions typically consist of 20-30 balls. A few wedges, a few mid irons, a few hybrids, and four or five drivers (or maybe a few more until I get a couple that I like). 
 

250-300 balls?  Wow, I would be exhausted. But then again, I’m old!😂

[jda]

It is a discipline.  I have a strong baseball background at a high level and you can learn to swing (or throw for that matter) without learning bad habits or caring about results... your competition does this, so you learn or go home.  Nets, tee work, etc. work in baseball, but you can do the same if golf if you just don't look where they go and/or forget about how they felt and just move on.  There is no better way to get strength or in shape than doing what you are going to do - swing to swing, throw to throw, sprint to sprint, etc.

 

This is the same thing as hitting golf balls to warm up versus to hitting them to work on something.  Your brain can make that differentiation so it can do this one too.  🙂

 

You don't just hit them all at once.  Usually have a protein bar, bottle of water and all of this gets consumed in breaks and stuff.  20-25 balls and then a break.  I got lunch once at Saddleback and went back out - they don't care how many you hit there.

[bobbyclampett!!]

3 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

Ironically the best fitters I've been around recently are actually two demo days guys. They are both tournament golfers that I have played with previously. One of them is Sam Marley and is an ex-UNC golfer and one of the best mid-ams in CO. He works for Taylormade.

 

The other guy, Sam Solomon, I ran into this year for the first time in 3-4 years when he showed up at Fox doing demos for Mizuno.

 

BTW, so pumped with my Pro 221/223 combo set, they're so good. I really love how well blades get through the rough, it's awesome.

 

I broke my Stealth this year right before the match play and my pro only had a 9* for me to use until the replacement came in. Holy crap I can't do the 9* at all. I not only lost 20-30 yards of distance but I also had worse dispersion. The launch was too low and no matter how I swung it I couldn't bring it up. I don't think I will ever go back to less than 10.5. 

Dude that sucks you broke your driver right before mid-am. Crazy how much difference 1.5 degree of loft on a driver can make. But this confirms my experience. So used to 10.5 now. If someone sets a 9 in front of me I immediately hand it back them like “Nope.” 10.5 until I turn 65 and need a 12. 
 

Agree on blades in rough. Someone asked me the other day if that’s where I wish I had something else and I’m like, uh….

[bobbyclampett!!]

3 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

Ironically the best fitters I've been around recently are actually two demo days guys. They are both tournament golfers that I have played with previously. One of them is Sam Marley and is an ex-UNC golfer and one of the best mid-ams in CO. He works for Taylormade.

 

The other guy, Sam Solomon, I ran into this year for the first time in 3-4 years when he showed up at Fox doing demos for Mizuno.

Is there a way to make an appointment with these guys or do you have to stalk them at a TM or Mizuno fitting day? Love both TM and Mizuno anyway. 

[Joelness]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:15 PM, bobbyclampett!! said:

Is there a way to make an appointment with these guys or do you have to stalk them at a TM or Mizuno fitting day? Love both TM and Mizuno anyway. 

 

Not the way I know of. I just ran into both of them this year at fox while they were doing their respective demo days.

On 10/21/2023 at 11:29 AM, jda said:

It is a discipline.  I have a strong baseball background at a high level and you can learn to swing (or throw for that matter) without learning bad habits or caring about results... your competition does this, so you learn or go home.  Nets, tee work, etc. work in baseball, but you can do the same if golf if you just don't look where they go and/or forget about how they felt and just move on.  There is no better way to get strength or in shape than doing what you are going to do - swing to swing, throw to throw, sprint to sprint, etc.

 

This is the same thing as hitting golf balls to warm up versus to hitting them to work on something.  Your brain can make that differentiation so it can do this one too.  🙂

 

You don't just hit them all at once.  Usually have a protein bar, bottle of water and all of this gets consumed in breaks and stuff.  20-25 balls and then a break.  I got lunch once at Saddleback and went back out - they don't care how many you hit there.

 

Interesting take on this also. I've been there on the baseball side, but golf just seems so much more technical for me and I've always had a fear of grooving in terrible habits while tired.

[007iron]

Was down in the city over the weekend and played Homestead Friday and Eisenhower Blue on Saturday. 

 

Homestead was super fun - I really liked the routing and it played pretty dang firm and fast. Some really fun par 4s - the 9th hole with the two tiered fairway and a pond on the left was really good. The mounding, gum drops and grass bunker all over the place were really cool. Pretty decent price as well ($48 to walk, $68 to ride on a Friday morning).

 

Then Eisenhower I met up with a guy I met caddying during the US Girls Junior over the summer and his crew for their Saturday game. We played from a set of tees slightly shorter than they had it set up for the girls and I got my lunch eaten. Started by almost flagging it on one - 16 feet away, but above the hole and of course 3 putted after rolling the first one 6 feet by. The "welcome to Eisenhower home of the 3 putt" calls rang out. Settled in nicely and only 3 putted one more green (4 in total if you count the 2 more I took 3 to get down from the fringe).

 

Despite being very wide off the tee I still struggled - didn't have my best and was playing with new people so I hit a few poor drives that resulted in punching out and such. Then my short game didn't save me ever. I did birdie the par-5 16th which was a nice memory to take away.

 

Super fun day - very good course, perfect weather, nice guys - can't ask for more. 

[jda]

If anybody wants these, let me know and swing by...  too beautiful and timeless to just throw away, IMO.

 

[Joelness]

So I decided to hit some balls in the basement yesterday. My old Titleist 610MB's still had the reflective dots on them so I figured I would use those instead of my current set since I didn't want to take them back off before a tournament in Vegas next weekend (automatic DQ.)

 

I hit about 30 balls with the PW and wow was it a s***-show. Every single shot was going left, plenty of them were pulls also. I just figured I was swinging it bad but then I pulled out my current PW and I hit 6 straight laser beams within 12 feet. WTF?!?!?

 

I'm not sure if it's the insane offset on those 610's (shudder) or that they have the C-Taper 125g S+ and my current set has the 130g X.  What do you all think?

[jda]

Are the swing weights the same?  I have been playing heavier clubs now and when I grab lighter (normal(ish)) ones the head gets there too quick and things go left.

[CDM]

4 hours ago, Joelness said:

So I decided to hit some balls in the basement yesterday. My old Titleist 610MB's still had the reflective dots on them so I figured I would use those instead of my current set since I didn't want to take them back off before a tournament in Vegas next weekend (automatic DQ.)

 

I hit about 30 balls with the PW and wow was it a s***-show. Every single shot was going left, plenty of them were pulls also. I just figured I was swinging it bad but then I pulled out my current PW and I hit 6 straight laser beams within 12 feet. WTF?!?!?

 

I'm not sure if it's the insane offset on those 610's (shudder) or that they have the C-Taper 125g S+ and my current set has the 130g X.  What do you all think?

 

I think the only really way to figure out the problem is too hit up a "club" in Vegas and discuss it 🤔  🤣

 

Joking aside I would say shaft flex and as @jda notes the swing.weight.  I went lighter shafts but to get the feeling of the head I needed more swing weight.  Works for me but had friends try them on RTJ trip and it messed them both up...the CWT shafts I use now also take getting used to.

[bobbyclampett!!]

15 hours ago, Joelness said:

So I decided to hit some balls in the basement yesterday. My old Titleist 610MB's still had the reflective dots on them so I figured I would use those instead of my current set since I didn't want to take them back off before a tournament in Vegas next weekend (automatic DQ.)

 

I hit about 30 balls with the PW and wow was it a s***-show. Every single shot was going left, plenty of them were pulls also. I just figured I was swinging it bad but then I pulled out my current PW and I hit 6 straight laser beams within 12 feet. WTF?!?!?

 

I'm not sure if it's the insane offset on those 610's (shudder) or that they have the C-Taper 125g S+ and my current set has the 130g X.  What do you all think?

Are they the same length and lie? If the 610s are more upright that would make them go more left with all else being equal. 

[TheKrushh]

19 hours ago, Joelness said:

So I decided to hit some balls in the basement yesterday. My old Titleist 610MB's still had the reflective dots on them so I figured I would use those instead of my current set since I didn't want to take them back off before a tournament in Vegas next weekend (automatic DQ.)

 

I hit about 30 balls with the PW and wow was it a s***-show. Every single shot was going left, plenty of them were pulls also. I just figured I was swinging it bad but then I pulled out my current PW and I hit 6 straight laser beams within 12 feet. WTF?!?!?

 

I'm not sure if it's the insane offset on those 610's (shudder) or that they have the C-Taper 125g S+ and my current set has the 130g X.  What do you all think?

I'm not very smart on this but I'd say it has to do a lot with the offset. The set or presentation of the club at address impacts how you present it at impact. I find that I'll hit a consistent "weird" shot pattern when the offset or shaft angle is way different that my normal club.

[Joelness]

I grabbed the club after my morning workout today and the 610's are slightly lighter. It's close enough that I don't think that's the issue.

 

It seems like the offset and the shaft flex are the most likely culprits. The offset is so ugly to me that I can't believe I played them. The flex might be the case but I also find that a little less likely, especially since I was actually making 3/4 swings the entire time.

 

Either way I find it incredibly interesting and a little scary that those clubs could have such a strong difference in ball flight.

[dubbelbogey]

Another possibility is the lie angles are (now) more upright. Maybe years of hitting them may have caused the lie angles to drift  - especially if they're soft/forged and spent time hitting off mats.

[jda]

You mean 710mb, right?  I don't remember them having that much offset to where it gave spine shivers.  The most likely answer is that you are not liking the look and are closing the face at address or impact because of it.

[CDM]

.........everyone is so serious on here I thought for sure we would be hitting up a few "clubs" to discuss.   *ignored the pun I made 🤤

 

I would agree on the offset but not sold that is it.  I think it is both.  Mainly having played with @Joelness and watching your swing / release.  

 

Stupid point but we took the office to Top Golf on Friday night for food, drinks, hitting balls.  This was my first time ever hitting balls a Top Golf for record.   

 

I grabbed a 7 iron from that bin and it keep fading on me.  It was p*ssing me off honestly and then one the employees chimed in  "Yoooo smooth, you are hitting the ladies club"  🤣    I had no idea there was a "womens flex" and "mens flex" in that bin thing and  most where mix matched.    I switched and sure enough the ball was going straight.  

 

@Joelness knowing your swing and release I think the different shaft is big part.  Based on what you stated given there is a decent difference in them and I would bet it is a combination of the two.

 

Edit: Is the offest that much from your mizzy's?  

Edited November 2, 2023 by CDM

[jda]

I laughed at your club joke.  I was going to post something cheeky, but I decided against it.  I know that the whole board does not really have a sense of humor, but I don't know about the Colorado folks... so, we will try...  I was going to post that everybody knows that it is because people who play Titleist clubs are pretentious wanna-be hacks who think that they are better than what they are and just want to look cool... or whatever the stereotype around here is.  ...or that blades are outdated tools for the dinosaurs, that feedback, control and shot shaping is a myth and does not matter - the only thing that matters is forgiveness on mishits since pros and plus-cap folks miss their wedge and 9 iron so much that it matters.

 

Kinda going back to what I said before about swinging to swing and then swinging to fix/work on things.  My guess is if those pulled/left shots were done outdoors where you could see them fly, this would have been fixed in 3-5 swings.

[CDM]

1 hour ago, jda said:

I laughed at your club joke.  I was going to post something cheeky, but I decided against it.  I know that the whole board does not really have a sense of humor, but I don't know about the Colorado folks... so, we will try...  I was going to post that everybody knows that it is because people who play Titleist clubs are pretentious wanna-be hacks who think that they are better than what they are and just want to look cool... or whatever the stereotype around here is.  ...or that blades are outdated tools for the dinosaurs, that feedback, control and shot shaping is a myth and does not matter - the only thing that matters is forgiveness on mishits since pros and plus-cap folks miss their wedge and 9 iron so much that it matters.

 

Kinda going back to what I said before about swinging to swing and then swinging to fix/work on things.  My guess is if those pulled/left shots were done outdoors where you could see them fly, this would have been fixed in 3-5 swings.

 

Oooo in this thread everything goes 🤣   I dont think we have meet most on here will probably tell you it is as good thing LOL   

 

Titleist..... that is a common view. Titleist drivers though just fit me.  Gamed them since the 905R.   Tried a few others dirvers, fittings, etc but always back to Titelist.

 

Very "rough attempt" with Titleist irons and have never tired since.  \Vokey wedges are not for me.  Tried them for 1 season and right back to RTX's    

 

Putters.... I have gamed only 2 putters in 20 years and are Camerons so Titleist.  Studio Stainless newport I bought new in '92 and a Select Newport from 3 or so years ago I game now..  Still have the Studio Stainless.    

 

*I have gamed 4 putters in 30+ years. First two where had me downs. 

 

I have bought a couple but not to game. I bought a Cameron TEL Sole Stamp that is a first article ('99) as investment. More so when younger I wanted one but could not afford it so always stuck with me.  It was sent to Cameron for restoration and certified as one of the first 500 made. It had odd markings so thought it was a fake.  Bettinardi made the heads for Cameron at that time and Scotty made the TEL insert and built them himself.    

 

Oddly this year I picked up two putters though. One in Australia that was more to remember the trip we took and I literally suck with it  HAHAHA.   

 

Second  https://bettinardi.com/products/bettinardi-25th-anniversay-bb1-ms-putter  New in box still wrapped in plastic at a killer price (way less then MSRP).  Like the TEL to see if they go up in value since there is only 250 of each release.  Not a gamer by all accounts as the insert is actually gold plated....not sure anyone would really use it on the course? Granted putting around the house the thing feels freaking incredible and has tempted me big time........

 

I think clubs today are all really good with proper fitting given all the options.  Plus unlike @Joelness and the many other really good players in this thread my game is to up and down now with all the stupid self induced issues LOL 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by CDM

[CDM]

Since talking clubs. 

 

Is there that one club in the bag that no matter what you do, fittings, range time, etc you just can never get it right?

 

Mine is 3 wood.  I did a full fitting last year and 45-60 mins of hitting 3-woods and what seemed like a 100 shafts.  The fitter just looked over and said   "Should we just give up"   😪 LOL

 

The best we found (loosing wording) was a Callaway Rogue HL LS 16.5 degree head.  As he put it a messed up 4 wood that he thinks he put maybe 2 other people in ever HAHAHAHA     

 

He had me hit some stock shaft options at the end and said "When it hits Callaway pre-owned pick one up for cheap is your best option"     

[jda]

I play Titliest clubs.  When I was coming up, their blades were Japanese made masterpieces and it was not easy to call Japan and order a set.  🙂  I just like to make fun of the sentiment by many on this board.  The last bunch of Titleist blades made in Japan are still amazing - 660 is the best that I have ever played.

 

I make my own wedges out of forged blanks.  I am not a huge Vokey guy, but they are probably fine.

 

Along the same lines as the blades, Cameron was the first to offer high quality materials and craftsmanship for the masses.  Many, many people do it now, but go back to the late 90s and the Santa Fe, Newport, etc. juts rolled the ball differently than Pings, Wilsons or the like.  They just did.  The first time that I hit a Santa Fe, it was different.  I have every Putter that I have ever bought that were not stolen.  I have a Mizuno Cameron that most folks don't even know exist.  I have a handful of putters used on the tour and a few won some events... Camerons and a YES!.

 

Make no mistake about it, when I was in college, or slightly after, when I still knew people who played on tour, or where close, Titleist, Mizuno and other Japanese stuff were the best out there.  Wilson staff was up there too, but most of us kids thought that they were for their parents to play... we were idiots.

 

I just like to make fun of some of the members on the board... feel, feedback and sound are useless in blades, but it is OK in putters and drivers.  Amateurs should do what Pros do.  Brand shaming and stuff is funny to me too.  Topics are useless and overdone unless it is one of theirs.  🙂  I figure that if I have to read about it, then I like to make fun of them a bit... but most don't have a sense of humor about it.

 

BTW - I still have a 905 T or R (forgot which one) that is every bit as long as a modern driver - 320 yard 1400 RPM low-spin missiles.  It is just SO harsh if you don't find the sweet spot.  It is fun to swing.  I often use it to just smash a bunch if I need to get in shape since I don't care if I hit them well.

Edited November 2, 2023 by jda