West Palm Beach Muni Reopening Soon?

[So_Cal]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Understood. There are a lot of factors at play.

 

One is, Tiger and his friends play there once a year - that lends considerable cachet to the pricing formula and basically stamps it as a superior golf course and a "must play" for many visitors. Highly unlikely that'll ever happen at WPB Muni.

 

But munis are operated by the gubmint. The local tax base (already) provides a lot of the funds to operate the course. Exorbitant (assuming that's what this is) pricing to use the facility can be viewed as the gubmint kinda sorta double-dipping.

 

Fortunately there are still some decent courses around that are reasonably priced around here, especially during the Summer months. But if inflation and the (C-19)golf boom keep going, might not be for long,,,,,,,,,,

No doubt.  There may have been some private investors for the redo.  So they may be getting paid back. 
 

Some have said it’s the next best course in south Florida behind Seminole.  If that’s the case the price probably won’t be coming down.  One thing i dislike about Florida golf is all the water.  So I’d pay more to play a course without it. 
 

BTW if any of you Florida guys have Seminole connections please let me know.  😂😂.  I’ll book a flight 

[So_Cal]

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Understood. There are a lot of factors at play.

 

One is, Tiger and his friends play there once a year - that lends considerable cachet to the pricing formula and basically stamps it as a superior golf course and a "must play" for many visitors. Highly unlikely that'll ever happen at WPB Muni.

 

But munis are operated by the gubmint. The local tax base (already) provides a lot of the funds to operate the course. Exorbitant (assuming that's what this is) pricing to use the facility can be viewed as the gubmint kinda sorta double-dipping.

 

Fortunately there are still some decent courses around that are reasonably priced around here, especially during the Summer months. But if inflation and the (C-19)golf boom keep going, might not be for long,,,,,,,,,,

I do wish these munis were a little more reasonable.  Do they have to charge the visitor 4x as much as the local?  I’m taking someone to Torrey and I’m embarrassed to say how much this is going to cost me.  I don’t get the local rate myself.  Glad to show him the views once…

[ThinkingPlus]

49 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

No doubt.  There may have been some private investors for the redo.  So they may be getting paid back. 
 

Some have said it’s the next best course in south Florida behind Seminole.  If that’s the case the price probably won’t be coming down.  One thing i dislike about Florida golf is all the water.  So I’d pay more to play a course without it. 
 

BTW if any of you Florida guys have Seminole connections please let me know.  😂😂.  I’ll book a flight 

Water builds character. It's good for you.

[So_Cal]

15 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Water builds character. It's good for you.

😉.   Don’t mind a couple of water holes but find myself agreeing with Donald Ross and MacKenzie.  Two times a round is enough. 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 minute ago, So_Cal said:

😉.   Don’t mind a couple of water holes but find myself agreeing with Donald Ross and MacKenzie.  Two times a round is enough. 

And yet, the most pivotal holes at ANGC are the ones with water in play. Without modern green speeds, Ross courses would get pulverized. PAs (including tight, thick tree lined fairways which are PAs in disguise) and wind are the great equalizers or you can make greens marginally unputtable. Everything else tends to be pretty easy. 

[So_Cal]

26 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

And yet, the most pivotal holes at ANGC are the ones with water in play. Without modern green speeds, Ross courses would get pulverized. PAs (including tight, thick tree lined fairways which are PAs in disguise) and wind are the great equalizers or you can make greens marginally unputtable. Everything else tends to be pretty easy. 

Agree.  100 year old courses designed for hickories will be pulverized by toasters on a stick.  It’s fine.  No worries.  The less water the better for normal golfers.  

[Tim_Gavrich]

On 5/14/2023 at 10:22 AM, nsxguy said:

But munis are operated by the gubmint. The local tax base (already) provides a lot of the funds to operate the course. Exorbitant (assuming that's what this is) pricing to use the facility can be viewed as the gubmint kinda sorta double-dipping.

You should not paint all golf courses on municipally-owned land with this broad a brush. There is a big spectrum of ways in which municipal golf courses are operated and funded, and a lot of them are not at all as you describe.

 

The Park may sit on land that belongs to the City of West Palm Beach, but it's far from any stereotypical notion of "city muni." It is much more like what you would consider a high-end daily-fee country-club-for-a-day golf course. The vibe I perceived on Monday was much closer to that of, say, Streamsong (albeit in a much more populated area) than a tired old city course. Lots of people who are members of private clubs hanging around. I saw multiple golf bags from a club that has hosted the U.S. Open.

 

Yes, the non-city green fees are very high, but if you gave me the option of paying $200+ to play The Park or a similar price to play the little resort course at The Breakers, it would be no contest whatsoever; The Park would win out 9 out of 10 times at least. It's very, very good.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Tim_Gavrich
typo

[golfortennis]

19 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Some have said it’s the next best course in south Florida behind Seminole.  If that’s the case the price probably won’t be coming down.  One thing i dislike about Florida golf is all the water.  So I’d pay more to play a course without it. 

 

AS my buddy who is now a Texas resident, but former Floridian liked to say about golf there, "Florida is the land of lakes and stakes."

 

It can get excessive, but again, like the fact most courses are pan flat, the selling point to Florida golf is the fact you can play in shorts in January.  At least, it is to this Canadian.

[nsxguy]

14 hours ago, Tim_Gavrich said:

You should not paint all golf courses on municipally-owned land with this broad a brush. There is a big spectrum of ways in which municipal golf courses are operated and funded, and a lot of them are not at all as you describe.

 

The Park may sit on land that belongs to the City of West Palm Beach, but it far from any stereotypical notion of "city muni." It is much more like what you would consider a high-end daily-fee country-club-for-a-day golf course. The vibe I perceived on Monday was much closer to that of, say, Streamsong (albeit in a much more populated area) than a tired old city course. Lots of people who are members of private clubs hanging around. I saw multiple golf bags from a club that has hosted the U.S. Open.

 

Yes, the non-city green fees are very high, but if you gave me the option of paying $200+ to play The Park or a similar price to play the little resort course at The Breakers, it would be no contest whatsoever; The Park would win out 9 out of 10 times at least. It's very, very good.

 

Who's painting "all golf courses on municipally-owned land with this broad a brush" ?

 

Why did you leave out the first line of my post you quoted ?

 

And I quote "There are a lot of factors at play."

[TourSpoon]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:13 PM, So_Cal said:

Some have said it’s the next best course in south Florida behind Seminole.

It has a Seminole connection with some on the Board of Directors. If it shows up as #2 on some list, its because of the BoD being connected. 

 

On 5/14/2023 at 11:38 PM, Tim_Gavrich said:

It is much more like what you would consider a high-end daily-fee country-club-for-a-day golf course.

This is consistent with what I have heard and seen. Gil Hanse designed a great course. 

 

 

Here is a quote from the groundbreaking. I would gather "surrounding community" to be more than just WPB proper. I have heard rumors of a county rate. 

 

“We also will ensure that everyone in the surrounding community feels welcome and can afford a round of golf or a lesson,” said Waugh. “We take inclusivity extremely seriously.”

 

 

[FlashinLeather]

Although this is land owned by the City of West Palm Beach (of which I am a resident) it is far from a muni. To back the renovation, new buildings, etc., along with being able to financially support the course in the future it was backed by donors - with the rumor being a minimum contribution of $150,000. They were able to raise 52 million through private donations. There will be a "donor" benefit to the club for preferred tee times and possible additional facility use. 

 

Don't really understand the discussion about price point. $60 for a WPB resident or $130 for a county resent really isn't "high" for the area when considering the quality of this course and what the upkeep of a top tier course costs. North Palm Beach (city owned) is $145 in season for 18, Abacoa is around the same - The Park is so much better in all aspects. There are plenty of options down the road at Okeeheelee, Osprey, Park Ridge if you want to play for $30 - but you obviously sacrifice in the quality of course you are playing.  

[TourSpoon]

1 hour ago, FlashinLeather said:

Don't really understand the discussion about price point. $60 for a WPB resident or $130 for a county resent really isn't "high" for the area when considering the quality of this course and what the upkeep of a top tier course costs. North Palm Beach (city owned) is $145 in season for 18, Abacoa is around the same - The Park is so much better in all aspects. There are plenty of options down the road at Okeeheelee, Osprey, Park Ridge if you want to play for $30 - but you obviously sacrifice in the quality of course you are playing.  

 

Sixty dollars is reasonable. Even a peak season fee comparable with Abacoa is fine. I think the premise of the "Park" is to provide access and inclusivity and to grow the game. I really didn't expect that access to require caddies before noon. That seems like a private course thing to do that happens across the lagoon. Again, its a top end course with a non-profit engine (seeded with some big player money) partnering with a municipality. 

 

Now having consulted on the some of the planned youth outreach and caddie programs, I think we will soon see a concerted effort to grow the game in a place where "everyone is welcome." They have some really cool things planned like a high school mentoring (through caddying and golf) with local leaders and will have a lot of junior events. This is just getting off the ground and will only get better with time. I suspect they will get the ball rolling there and will have so many golf related activities (not just the champion 18) going on that it will have a positive effect on the community along with being a premiere resort style feel. They have the South Florida section HQ going in, a golf school, nine hole course, and more. The championship course is just the beginning. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by TourSpoon
Clarification

[FlashinLeather]

8 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

 

Sixty dollars is reasonable. Even a peak season fee comparable with Abacoa is fine. I think the premise of the "Park" is to provide access and inclusivity and to grow the game. I really didn't expect that access to require caddies before noon. That seems like a private course thing to do that happens across the lagoon. Again, its a top end course with a non-profit engine (seeded with some big player money) partnering with a municipality. 

 

Now having consulted on the some of the planned youth outreach and caddie programs, I think we will soon see a concerted effort to grow the game in a place where "everyone is welcome." They have some really cool things planned like a high school mentoring (through caddying and golf) with local leaders and will have a lot of junior events. This is just getting off the ground and will only get better with time. I suspect they will get the ball rolling there and will have so many golf related activities (not just the champion 18) going on that it will have a positive effect on the community along with being a premiere resort style feel. They have the South Florida section HQ going in, a golf school, nine hole course, and more. The championship course is just the beginning. 

 

Caddies are mandatory 8 am to 9 am. They are optional after that.

 

It is my understanding that they have a relationship with the Evans Scholars Foundation - a non-profit that provides tuition and housing college scholarships to golf caddies.

 

All the price points that we have been talking about are for adults. The course is discounted for children, including the par three course and affordable golf lessons for kids. 

[TourSpoon]

24 minutes ago, FlashinLeather said:

 

Caddies are mandatory 8 am to 9 am. They are optional after that.

 

It is my understanding that they have a relationship with the Evans Scholars Foundation - a non-profit that provides tuition and housing college scholarships to golf caddies.

 

All the price points that we have been talking about are for adults. The course is discounted for children, including the par three course and affordable golf lessons for kids. 

 

Correct, the idea is to have the Evans Scholar program. I have been involved in these talks and it will be very impactful for the kids at Forest Hill.  

 

I think this will be the community program that it was billed to be. The additional programs that will be added along with par three and lessons should be taking off soon.  Residents around the Park are getting excited and it should turn out to be a great asset for WPB and surrounding communities. 

[jpt1101]

I think part of the issue with the cost is there doesn’t seem to be discounted Summer rates like there are at some of the other top tier publics that have already been mentioned here. Maybe that will change once the Summer actually arrives, or maybe not. With this being the first year it’s open I’d be surprised at any discounted fees. 

[socccer4life3]

had a chance to finally play the course yesterday.  I have to say it was a very enjoyable experience.  Teed off at 848 and was down around 1pm; took a little time at the turn but never had to wait on any holes.  My biggest complaint about this place is the lack of drinking water/comfort stations on the course.  Taking a caddy was mandatory before 9 but i would say it was worth it.  There were a lot of holes that you had to land your approach shot way short, or other knowledge a caddy was able to share that you woudn't know.  One hole comes to mind, it was 170 pin but caddy said hit a 145 shot because it will bound off the mounds.  Sure enough it did.  Next time when i play i think i will play after 9am, and take a 4 caddy but as a WPM resident will definitely be back.  Once the range opens it will be a great place to go practice as well

[BombinJim]

I played the course Monday after work (9 holes) because I was in the area for work. I was pleasantly surprised how nice it was and definitely had Pinehurst vibes. Tight lies, wasteland, and plenty of risk/reward shots. Gil Hanse did an amazing job.

[jerebear21]

Gil Hanse always brings it. And not trying to be snarky but 130 bucks for a Gil Hanse in Florida right now is pretty darn good. They’ve raised the rates across the board even for summer rates in Florida.