Why can’t I hit the center of the face!

[Climbhard]

I’ve tried everything and with wedges I can hit 15 balls with an impact location the size of a dime a fraction away from the hossel.  9 and 8 iron moves progressively towards the toe and 7 on down I flush em right off the sweet spot.  Here is a pic from my PW and about 10 balls.  What gives?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Climbhard

[Ri_Redneck]

Face contact is controlled by your subconscious using your feel in your hands and your eyesight. Many think they will hit the ball where they address the ball, this is not true. Your mind controls the club coming into impact to hit the ball where your mind thinks the center of the face will be. I would suggest you plan, at address, to contact the ball slightly more out toward the toe. So that your mind captures that intent and takes it into the swing. That is what I do when I start getting heel-ward in my contact. I can typically work it out with about 15-20 shots.

 

Another thing, which may be totally off base, is I notice you have graphite shafts in your irons. Many use very flexible graphite in their irons and you can get less and less toe droop as the shafts get shorter/stiffer. It would only take a fraction of an inch difference to get the contact points you are describing. Regardless, it will be the mental intended contact point that will resolve the problem.

 

BT 

[ShortGolfer]

Months of daily practice works for me.  I can change lots of stuff if I practice daily and stick with it.

Sure, I get days off when the weather is too cold, wet, or snowy, but the point is constant repetition over a long time.

A lot of short practice sessions are better than a few long ones.  Which is why I practice in my back yard with foam golf balls instead of driving to the range.

Driving to the range isn't an effective use of my time.  Much better to play 9 holes on an executive course where I see my exact yardages.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[Climbhard]

To follow up my original post..... Thinking how most things in golf are the opposite of what they seem, I addressed the last few balls in the bucket with the ball right in front of the hossel and low and behold, I flushed em right off the sweetspot.  Felt like I really had to force my hands in towards my body to avoid the hossel rocket but it worked.  Think I'll work with this feeling a little more.

[mgoblue83]

Check the lie angles and experiment with more upright. You could also lengthen the club 1/2in instead. 

 

Quite common for people to need longer wedges even if 7i is stock length. 

[Climbhard]

Irons are all +1/2"

[mgoblue83]

3 minutes ago, Climbhard said:

Irons are all +1/2"

 

Try another 1/2'' on the short irons/wedges and/or go more upright to move the contact closer to the sweet spot. 

 

 

[GungHoGolf]

56 minutes ago, Climbhard said:

To follow up my original post..... Thinking how most things in golf are the opposite of what they seem, I addressed the last few balls in the bucket with the ball right in front of the hossel and low and behold, I flushed em right off the sweetspot.  Felt like I really had to force my hands in towards my body to avoid the hossel rocket but it worked.  Think I'll work with this feeling a little more.

You're on the right track. I find focusing on my hands' position through impact in general results in better strikes than focusing on the clubhead. Typically I'm trying to get my hands coming through closer to my body (passing through their address position) and somewhere over my lead toes at impact (from my vantage point, depending on club). Hand-path focused, vs ball or club-path focused, in other words.

[betarhoalphadelta]

36 minutes ago, Climbhard said:

Irons are all +1/2"

 

Height and wrist-to-floor measurement? 

 

I'm 6'5" with a 39.5-40" WTF measure. My previous set was +1.5". Which was AMAZING in the short irons but was unwieldy in the long ones. I ended up switching to single-length, so every iron in my bag is 37.5" (standard 6i) and I even play my wedges long at 36.75" (between standard 7i/8i). 

 

I think for taller players, you can start getting down in the wedges to lengths that are just uncomfortable to swing. +1/2" might not be long enough for you at the bottom of the bag. 

[Pepperturbo]

@Ri_Redneck is right. 

 

To the OP, mental and graphite, together, are temperamental.  Shorter irons can make it more challenging to maintain an even swing tempo, flexible graphite and/or the wrong flex can compound the issue. 

 

I play blades and now T100s; when I align the club head, the ball sets near the heel of the club.  As a result, most of the time I nut the ball.  I can't address the shaft science, except it works.  Recently, a buddy (6'2) playing standard length, asked what I do to regularly nut the ball.  I said, at address, align the ball near the heel, he's been hitting the ball much better since.  Standard length or 1/2 over isn't germane to better ball striking, it's in your head, expectations and setup.

 

 

 

 

[Climbhard]

33 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Height and wrist-to-floor measurement? 

 

I'm 6'5" with a 39.5-40" WTF measure. My previous set was +1.5". Which was AMAZING in the short irons but was unwieldy in the long ones. I ended up switching to single-length, so every iron in my bag is 37.5" (standard 6i) and I even play my wedges long at 36.75" (between standard 7i/8i). 

 

I think for taller players, you can start getting down in the wedges to lengths that are just uncomfortable to swing. +1/2" might not be long enough for you at the bottom of the bag. 

36.5-37 WTF in stocking feet.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I would start with lie angles, I guess people react differently to length changes but I would think heel hits indicate too long if anything. Also check setup relative to the mid irons you strike well.

[jholz]

If y'all figure out an answer to this question, please PM me.

 

I'm interested to know. 😁

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

I would start with lie angles, I guess people react differently to length changes but I would think heel hits indicate too long if anything. Also check setup relative to the mid irons you strike well.

 

All things equal that would make sense but what ends up happening quite often with clubs that are too short is a player will move closer to the ball and swing more upright in order to make contact. Leads to steep heel strikes. 

 

Long clubs let them stand a little further away and neutralize the swing a bit. 

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, Climbhard said:

Irons are all +1/2"

I play my lob sand and pitching wedge same length. And my irons are +3/4 . You can always choke down for finesse or uneven lies .  But on full shots it’s impossible to reach  the ball properly if they’re too short. 
 

if I play wedges too short I can’t get contact away from the toe . 

[Ri_Redneck]

Club length is NOT the cause of heel/toe contact. If it were, we would all be hitting our long clubs on the heel and short clubs on the toe. Even the most uneducated newby golfer measures out to the ball when they get ready to hit. it is caused by one or both of swing flaw and optical perception. That's why some fix it by addressing the ball on the heel to fool their mind into pulling the club back at impact. However, this is a speed killer because it makes you change the fluid nature of your swing. You have to retrain your eye/hand coordination.

 

If you look at the old videos of Bobby Jones, he addresses the ball out beyond the toe of his club in some cases. It's all in what you groove.

 

BT

[Climbhard]

13 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Club length is NOT the cause of heel/toe contact.

I dont think so either.  I think my hands are coming through high and in -> out

[KMeloney]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:04 PM, Pepperturbo said:

To the OP, mental and graphite, together, are temperamental.  Shorter irons can make it more challenging to maintain an even swing tempo, flexible graphite and/or the wrong flex can compound the issue.

 

 

What are you trying to say in the first sentence here? And where are you getting that his shafts are "flexible"?

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, KMeloney said:

 

What are you trying to say in the first sentence here? And where are you getting that his shafts are "flexible"?

If a person's mind and skill gets in their own way of finding COG, the characteristics of graphite compound the issue.

 

My words "Shorter irons can make it more challenging to maintain an even swing tempo, flexible graphite and/or the wrong flex can compound the issue."

 

[moptop]

Look into Adam Young's website.  Practice trying to hit 10 off the toe, then 10 off the heel.  Once you can do that divide the face into 3rds and practice that.  

[KMeloney]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

If a person's mind and skill gets in their own way of finding COG, the characteristics of graphite compound the issue.

 

My words "Shorter irons can make it more challenging to maintain an even swing tempo, flexible graphite and/or the wrong flex can compound the issue."

 

 

Got it. But I don't see what graphite has to do with any of it. Sure, any ill-fitting (by definition) shaft isn't going to be helpful -- but that's true regardless of the material of it. The use of graphite shafts, just because they're graphite, doesn't compound anything.

[Ri_Redneck]

6 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

Got it. But I don't see what graphite has to do with any of it. Sure, any ill-fitting (by definition) shaft isn't going to be helpful -- but that's true regardless of the material of it. The use of graphite shafts, just because they're graphite, doesn't compound anything.

One can have strike location issues when moving to a much different shaft weight because their subconscious is grooved to deliver the club for center contact based on the weight of the club. Give them a considerably lighter club and SOMETIMES it takes several swings for their subconscious to recalibrate itself.

 

BT

[KMeloney]

8 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

One can have strike location issues when moving to a much different shaft weight because their subconscious is grooved to deliver the club for center contact based on the weight of the club. Give them a considerably lighter club and SOMETIMES it takes several swings for their subconscious to recalibrate itself.

 

BT

 

Ok. Then it sounds like you and PT are assuming that graphite = lighter and/or more flexible. That's just not the default anymore. (And I can't find where the OP said he went lighter/softer with this set of irons.)

[Pepperturbo]

16 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

Got it. But I don't see what graphite has to do with any of it. Sure, any ill-fitting (by definition) shaft isn't going to be helpful -- but that's true regardless of the material of it. The use of graphite shafts, just because they're graphite, doesn't compound anything.

Most graphite shafts bend differently, most are mid-bend, lighter than steel, with more torque compared to steel.  Improper address can make for frustration. 

 

I played PX 6.0 for a long time in blades, and hit the ball on the screw, then switched to composite SF i110cw -s, mid-high bend, for nearly 2yrs before switching to MMT 125s in 620 MBs.  Both those shafts feel and bend more like steel, mid to HIGH bend, which fits my fast tempo. 

 

Then I switched to lighter MMT 105s, which are MID-bend, and found I had to make swing adjustments to hit them well.  Many people don't know how to adjust swings to adapt to different shaft profiles.  But there's this: I don't like making adjustments to accommodate a shaft profile.  If the shaft is right for me, it accommodates my swing characteristics.   

 

@Ri_Redneck is right.

[Ri_Redneck]

1 minute ago, KMeloney said:

 

Ok. Then it sounds like you and PT are assuming that graphite = lighter and/or more flexible. That's just not the default anymore. (And I can't find where the OP said he went lighter/softer with this set of irons.)

I'm well aware, as is PT, that graphite shafts range from one extreme to the other (check my sig). My beloved RIP Tours were discontinued because they were deemed "too stiff & boardy". 😭

 

You are correct, the OP DID NOT say his shafts were lighter and/or more flexible, but I suspected that if they were, that could be the cause. That's why I worded my second paragraph the way I did. Kind of indirectly asking if that were the case. 

 

BT

[Pepperturbo]

23 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

Ok. Then it sounds like you and PT are assuming that graphite = lighter and/or more flexible. That's just not the default anymore. (And I can't find where the OP said he went lighter/softer with this set of irons.)

My first set of tour level heavy graphite shafts with mid-high bend were made by G.Loomis, the fly-fishing rod company.  They were in use by tour guys, only they struggled back then in the market due to high cost, same price as MMT is today.  I make no assumptions.  It's a fact, "MOST" people don't buy a set of irons, then pay $90-$100 per shaft times 6–9 shafts for the set.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Ri_Redneck]

I remember those shafts. I couldn't afford them back then. Wish I could find a set hidden in a closet somewhere. I scour the web looking for RIP Tours every week.

 

BT

[Pepperturbo]

2 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I remember those shafts. I couldn't afford them back then. Wish I could find a set hidden in a closet somewhere. I scour the web looking for RIP Tours every week.

 

BT

My memory is nonexistent regarding their specs, but they were hot on tour in the 90s and surprisingly heavy, which named tour guys liked.  I shelled out a bundle for a set.

[aggiegolfer21]

What is the ball flight generally?