The Hole is Too Small

[EagleAteBirdie]

In my eyes, golf is “almost” the perfect game, but damn, I wish that hole was just a little wider. Purists will want me burnt at the stake for saying this, but I can’t help but wonder how much more enjoyable the game would be with a little more assistance to get that ball to drop in the hole. What if, all those years ago……

Nothing major, maybe half an inch or so.  I accept that this game we love would look very different, with scores lower than they are now.  Different winners and losers and maybe greater domination from a handful of players, or perhaps a wider spread of winners.  I don’t know. 

I am not suggesting putting should be a formality or even easy, just a little easier.  I accept that putting is technically easier but not when compared to strokes. It sometimes feels out of balance.  Almost like two separate games – tee to green and then putting. I would like to see a greater reward for quality ball striking. 

Yes, I am a mediocre putter and I am sure that those that putt better than they hit the ball prefer it like it is.  If anything, it’s the last line of defense that gives them the upper hand against better ball strikers with lesser putting ability, like me.
 

 

[Abh159]

And I'm sure bad free throw shooters wish the free throw line was closer... If the hole were a 1/2 inch bigger I imagine you'd still be saying it's too small and they should increase the size 1/2 inch.

 

 

[8602081]

I have to agree.. for most amateurs.. it would make their game more exciting and run..

 

Longer putts, chip-ins..

 

[IndyArcher]

I’m not a great putter but I don’t at all see a larger hole improving my enjoyment of the game any. Ultimately, all it would do is change my expectation of the game slightly so that my dissatisfaction is focused on something else. “All greens should be flat!” And all rough around the greens should be exactly 1” deep. Imagine the hole-outs I could get!!!

[Lobby]

Said no one ever

[st1800e]

Are all your missed puts missing by a 1/4 inch? 

[SE Gamer]

Easiest solution. Practice putting to a smaller hole. I designed and 3d printed some low profile "cups" that are undersized by over an inch (3" diameter). Work great on carpet. And they make the hole look massive when I get out on the course.

[betarhoalphadelta]

15 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Are all your missed puts missing by a 1/4 inch? 

 

Full disclosure: I'm not in favor of OP's proposal to increase hole size. 

 

But the question of "all" of your missed putts isn't really the key bit. The question is really IMHO more about some of those most frustrating putts. You're sitting over a mostly straight 3 1/2 footer with 3 skins on the line and all you need to do is sink it to halve the hole. And you lip out. And you get so frustrated that you want to throw your putter in the nearest body of water. 

 

It's a lot different from a 30 footer that you miss because you misread it and you leave yourself a 2 footer to finish. A bigger hole doesn't help there. 

 

But I disagree with what the OP is asking for because as @IndyArcher points out, it just moves that frustration level out from missing the 3 1/2 footer to missing the 4 footer. A bigger hole is bigger for your competitors as much as it's a bigger hole for you, so I don't see how increasing it really helps anything. 

[LimaSierra]

I remember when i first started golfing i used to count lip outs and "burn the edges" putts as being made. funny to look back on it now

[GatorNate11]

I’m doing my absolute best to resist making jokes here. With that said, I imagine if you played today, then played the same course tomorrow and they’d suddenly made the cup 1/2” bigger, you’d probably make 3-5 more putts. I’d guess you’d continue that for maybe 10 rounds at the absolute most, then it would just reset back to where it was. You might come out averaging one made putt more per round. You’re going to see the biggest advantage at first from the cup suddenly being larger, but shortly thereafter the brain is going to adjust to the new cup size and you’ll be burning the edge again. I’ve seen people miss on those gigantic foot golf hole abominations before, I don’t think increasing the cup size would ultimately do much (unless you went utter clown shoes with it and then you might make a few more per round on average). 

[MtlJeff]

@TiScape this was my 5th favorite movie from when i was in college

 

But seriously....I think it's a moot point, if you widened the hole by 1/4 inch or whatever, the better putters would still have an advantage and the worse putters would still miss more than the better ones

 

Leave it as it is i say...

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

4 hours ago, EagleAteBirdie said:

I would like to see a greater reward for quality ball striking. 

You may not believe it, and it might've been covered already, but widening the hole makes it easier for good putters to dominate mediocre ones.

 

(Basically, good putters' one-putt range would greatly expand, to where it would start to significantly intersect average proximities for all approaches.  As it is, average proximity is such that nearly everyone two-putts from that distance. On average.

 

Make the hole bigger, and really good putters start making a lot more one-putts from that distance, allowing them to better differentiate themselves from mediocre putters.)

[GHIN n Juice]

Is this like the reverse daddy stitch?

[Fuscinator]

53 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

You may not believe it, and it might've been covered already, but widening the hole makes it easier for good putters to dominate mediocre ones.

 

(Basically, good putters' one-putt range would greatly expand, to where it would start to significantly intersect average proximities for all approaches.  As it is, average proximity is such that nearly everyone two-putts from that distance. On average.

 

Make the hole bigger, and really good putters start making a lot more one-putts from that distance, allowing them to better differentiate themselves from mediocre putters.)

I think this is the same as that mistaken notion that you will make things harder for long hitters by lengthening the course. Making the course longer just gives the bombers an even bigger advantage. Make a course, with a lot of doglegs, shorter and you take driver out of the bombers' hands.

 

Putting is half the game (if you're a good putter, it's less, if you suck, it's waaaay more😻). It's significantly less physically demanding than the rest of the game and, like playing the drums, anybody can do it badly. If you don't find a way to like putting, you'll never be good at it. For me, it was finally finding a putter I could trust, then, finding a putter I love. It's the best part of my game now.

 

 

[Denny100]

I guess the optimal size hole would be one where natural forces i.e. a bad roll of the ball, bumps, imperfections on the green etc DONT stop a putt going in?

 

Or else otherwise a player makes a good stroke on the right line and the ball will still not go in.

 

Or maybe the hole IS designed with this already in mind?

[Chunkitgood]

Look up intermittent reinforcement.  Golf evolved to fit with the dopamine reward system.  Changes to make it more enjoyable are counterproductive in the long run.

[Blaiser]

A few years ago I played a course that implemented those giant cups onto each green. Each green had two pins, one was normal size and the other was massive (can't remember the actual diameter, but probably over a foot)

 

I think being obsessed golfers here on the WRX we are all completely fine with the size of the current hole. We all put in the time/work to stop 3 putting so much, and actually have a chance to roll in our 10-15 footers.

 

But the guys that only play a handful of times per year seemed to love the giant hole. They suddenly had a realistic chance at making putts over 10 feet, and weren't squirming over their 3-4 footers.

 

Some people simply don't have the time or drive to practice like we all have.

 

So, I actually wouldn't mind seeing this at more local muni tracks. Definitely helped with pace of play, and might get more people excited to play. It was also a great handicap - my friends would play the giant cup and I would play normal.

 

It reminds me of video game design, where the difficulty level is extremely fine tuned. Too easy and people don't like it, too hard and people give up. And the current hole is extremely difficult. Best in the world are coin flip from 7-8 feet.

[vandyfan]

19 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

But seriously....I think it's a moot point, if you widened the hole by 1/4 inch or whatever, the better putters would still have an advantage and the worse putters would still miss more than the better ones

 

This is head to head and competitive round wise though, right? Everyone (bad putters and good putters) would benefit/improve relative to par. But if you are a good ball striker and bad putter, making the hole bigger would help you all other things being equal, right?

 

I think making the hole significantly bigger totally changes the game and most people would not be in favor of it. As for me? I am not a golf purist and didn't grow up playing. I would like to see a bigger golf hole just because I think putting is the least fun and interesting part of the game (to me, I am not stating this as fact). It's also probably why I am a HORRIBLE putter. Literally the last thing I want to practice and one of my favorite things about trackman simulator (no putting). 😃

 

If some strikes the absolute s&^t out of the ball or has an amazing short game (chips/pitches) that to me is very impressive. Someone who bangs in 20 footers on repeat, while still a very valuable and important skill, is not a golfer I have ever "looked up to."

Edited April 13, 2023 by vandyfan

[LUMA]

It sounds like a good idea until you do it. I worked at a golf course that was closing its doors. We made holes on the greens that were 6 inches wider as an experiment.

 

It was no longer satisfying to make putts or hole out wedges and chips. It took most of the fun out of it. 

[Roody]

17 hours ago, Fuscinator said:

If you don't find a way to like putting, you'll never be good at it. For me, it was finally finding a putter I could trust, then, finding a putter I love. It's the best part of my game now.

 

 

Same. I used to be a pretty awful putter several years back. But then I started watching videos, screwed around with a training aid or two, and learned some Aimpoint. I won't say I'm Ben Crenshaw now, but it's improved enough that some of my golfing buddies have noticed and made comments. I was averaging 34.3 putts per round in 2011, I did 31.7 last year. 

And regarding the title of the thread:

[LBB]

During the first part of Covid, some of the courses were putting the cups into the ground upside down and had the local rule if the ball touches any part of the cup protruding out of the hole, it was considered a make.  I guess that effectively made the hole about a maybe 2 inches wider since the very edge of the ball could graze the wall of the cup to be considered in where normally that putt wouldn't even have technically touched the lip of the hole.

 

I didn't care for it.  Everyone was just hammering their chips and putts 8' past the hole knowing the comebacker was pretty easy.  Took the feel and touch out of the short game.

 

 

[black bnr32]

On 4/13/2023 at 1:27 PM, LUMA said:

It sounds like a good idea until you do it. I worked at a golf course that was closing its doors. We made holes on the greens that were 6 inches wider as an experiment.

 

It was no longer satisfying to make putts or hole out wedges and chips. It took most of the fun out of it. 

Roughly how much did scores improve, and how much faster were the rounds?

[Shilgy]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:15 PM, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Full disclosure: I'm not in favor of OP's proposal to increase hole size. 

 

But the question of "all" of your missed putts isn't really the key bit. The question is really IMHO more about some of those most frustrating putts. You're sitting over a mostly straight 3 1/2 footer with 3 skins on the line and all you need to do is sink it to halve the hole. And you lip out. And you get so frustrated that you want to throw your putter in the nearest body of water. 

 

It's a lot different from a 30 footer that you miss because you misread it and you leave yourself a 2 footer to finish. A bigger hole doesn't help there. 

 

But I disagree with what the OP is asking for because as @IndyArcher points out, it just moves that frustration level out from missing the 3 1/2 footer to missing the 4 footer. A bigger hole is bigger for your competitors as much as it's a bigger hole for you, so I don't see how increasing it really helps anything. 

If you lip out a straight three and a half foot putt you missed your target by a bit over 2”.

 

Bad putters would still be bad putters because of the larger cup size. They tend to see every putt as on the edge or outside the hole.

[larrybud]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:34 PM, GatorNate11 said:

I’m doing my absolute best to resist making jokes here. With that said, I imagine if you played today, then played the same course tomorrow and they’d suddenly made the cup 1/2” bigger, you’d probably make 3-5 more putts.

 

No way you're making 3-5 more putts with only 1/2" bigger cup.

 

[larrybud]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:08 PM, LBB said:

During the first part of Covid, some of the courses were putting the cups into the ground upside down and had the local rule if the ball touches any part of the cup protruding out of the hole, it was considered a make.  I guess that effectively made the hole about a maybe 2 inches wider since the very edge of the ball could graze the wall of the cup to be considered in where normally that putt wouldn't even have technically touched the lip of the hole.

 

I didn't care for it.  Everyone was just hammering their chips and putts 8' past the hole knowing the comebacker was pretty easy.  Took the feel and touch out of the short game.

 

 

Not only would the "hole" be effectively wider, there's no measure or effect of speed. Ping one off which otherwise would have gone 20 feet by and it's "holed".

[Mr. Bean]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:34 AM, LimaSierra said:

I remember when i first started golfing i used to count lip outs and "burn the edges" putts as being made. 

 

That is EXACTLY what the OP should do! If he wants lower scores by enlarging the hole why not count close ones as sunk?

[Phayd]

"I have always contended golf is one game and putting is another. One game is played in the air, the other on the ground”

 

"If I had my way, every golf green would be made into a huge funnel. So that when you hit the funnel the ball would roll down a pipe into the hole. That way there would be no expensive upkeep of grass on the greens. And there would be much less misery among the golfers."
-Ben Hogan

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

In the unintended consequences department, if the hole was bigger, architects and courses would most likely make the greens with bigger contours.

 

But, I do wish that when the Scottish guy sourced a piece of pipe and used it to cut the holes, he had found a pipe about an inch bigger.  Putting is too big a part of the game.  Can you tell I'm not a great putter?

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I would have sank a lot of damn putts if the hole was a touch bigger. Soo many lip outs  sometimes.

[davep043]

I'd love to see anyone provide evidence that their (arbitrary) preference for hole size is superior to the current arbitrary hole size.  Is 5 inches better than 4-1/2, is 6 inches better than 7, is there an optimal size?  Nope, leave it as is.