Shorter driver shaft questions

[odshot68]

I’ve always struggled to hit the driver due to my faster transition and the club getting stuck behind me so I block it or snap my hands through and pull hook it. I absolutely have always hit great three woods and strong three woods off the tee. So thinking of cutting my driver down from stock length of 45.75 down to 44.5”. I hate lead tape but not sure how much weight I would have to add to keep the same swing weight. Has anyone done this and can report back as to if it was worth it. I do play to a low plus index and realize this is what holds me back. I wish more companies made tour length drivers as cobra is the only one I know of unless I’m missing something. 

[phizzy30]

I use lead tape on driver heads to bring the SW up depending on what shaft, weight wise I go with.  Through trial and error, I've found that D3-D5 work for me.  Anything lighter and I'm spraying the ball all over the place.  Any heavier and my ball striking begins to really suffer. 

[ChipNRun]

A couple of things to consider: Persistent block <--> hook error indicates possible inefficient swing. Might lead with more of lower body kick to synch timing.

 

As for recapturing swingweight: 

• General rule is that cutting a shaft 1/2-inch will lower SwWt 3 points.
• In your case, 45.75" to 44.5" would lower it about 7-8 SwWt.
• To recapture, adding 2 grams to head weight will increase SwWt ~ 1 point.
• So, you would want to add ~ 14 grams to recapture SwWt.
• For your Para\dym driver, you can order a head weight for about $15, or a nine-screw set for about $80.

Your driver came stock with a 14-gram backweight and a 2-gram front weight.

 

Heaviest weight screw you can order is 18 grams.

 

So 14 + 2 = 16 grams base // 16 + 14 = 30 grams weight adjusted// But, would 18 back and 12 front give you good ball flight? 

 

Let's see what the veteran clubsmiths have to say on this!

[Gtyler14]

I’m in the process of this right now. I cut my driver down years ago before I had the knowledge of club building and swing weight. I’m not sure if I’ll be at 44 or 44.5 but right now I’m resting 44 in a tsr4 head. Usually I’m about d3-4 range in driver. I had the 11&5g weights stock and bought 13&7. 11&13 bring my swing weight up in the d3-d4 range. Still testing weight configuration if it’ll be 11&13 or 7&13 but have options and have lead tape as well to add a little in certain places if I go with a lighter weight to start.

1 hour ago, odshot68 said:

I’ve always struggled to hit the driver due to my faster transition and the club getting stuck behind me so I block it or snap my hands through and pull hook it. I absolutely have always hit great three woods and strong three woods off the tee. So thinking of cutting my driver down from stock length of 45.75 down to 44.5”. I hate lead tape but not sure how much weight I would have to add to keep the same swing weight. Has anyone done this and can report back as to if it was worth it. I do play to a low plus index and realize this is what holds me back. I wish more companies made tour length drivers as cobra is the only one I know of unless I’m missing something. 

 

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, odshot68 said:

I’ve always struggled to hit the driver due to my faster transition and the club getting stuck behind me so I block it or snap my hands through and pull hook it. I absolutely have always hit great three woods and strong three woods off the tee. So thinking of cutting my driver down from stock length of 45.75 down to 44.5”. I hate lead tape but not sure how much weight I would have to add to keep the same swing weight. Has anyone done this and can report back as to if it was worth it. I do play to a low plus index and realize this is what holds me back. I wish more companies made tour length drivers as cobra is the only one I know of unless I’m missing something. 

 

Oh my, yes.  I started by going to 44.5" over 20 years ago, and now I'm down to 43.5".  IMHO modern driver lengths are an abomination. 

 

ChipNRun mentions the 2g per swingweight point that's been shared over the decades, but the actual required value scales with the club length.  The 2g rule of thumb is true a bit over 38".  At longer lengths you need less, and at shorter lengths you need more.

 

At driver length, it's roughly 10g per inch you shorten the club.

 

My results are a revelation, relative to my less than stellar tee game.  I highly recommend it, and suggest keeping the idea of going even shorter as an option.

 

FWIW Cobra sells a Tour Length version of their drivers...

 

[RogerinNewZealand]

2 hours ago, odshot68 said:

I’ve always struggled to hit the driver due to my faster transition and the club getting stuck behind me so I block it or snap my hands through and pull hook it. I absolutely have always hit great three woods and strong three woods off the tee. So thinking of cutting my driver down from stock length of 45.75 down to 44.5”. I hate lead tape but not sure how much weight I would have to add to keep the same swing weight. Has anyone done this and can report back as to if it was worth it. I do play to a low plus index and realize this is what holds me back. I wish more companies made tour length drivers as cobra is the only one I know of unless I’m missing something. 

Try 45.25 first cut🙂...test and tune here for a while. Check where your hitting Impact on the Face. Thats half the battle.

Your after Centreish Impact Ball Mark just a bit too the Toe Side.

[Fenrir]

I’m playing my proto x at 44.5” and i started with lead tape, I ended up buying the weight kit after it started feeling better once I added a bunch which honestly I regret buying the kit I feel like lead tape gave it better feel.

but to your point I’d 100% recommend cutting down at least to 45” you will make better contact more often.

[Grape]

Very interested in this topic. I went with a 44.5” Paradym this year. Ordered from Callaway, and the customer service reps said they would adjust the headweight. Club showed up with the stock 14 and 2 weights, and I’m very skeptical that they actually added weight internally. Would have to bring it to a club builder to confirm. 
 

Contemplated ordering the heavier head weights as described by @ChipNRunabove just to test, but got to believe that would have some strange effects on flight.  Lead tape might be the way to go. 

[ericz]

I've done this. Playing 44.25" now. Tipped it and then butt cut it down to the desired playing length. One of the best things I've done. I'm not a tall person, and a shorter driver feels much nicer to me. I didn't add any weight to the head since I couldn't really feel the swing weight difference, though I may be in the minority with that. No loss of distance. 

[Valtiel]

I've been 44-44.5" for at least a decade now. The straight across formula for swingweight is 1.63g per swingweight point at 44.5", and the reduction from 45.75" (1.25") at 6 points per inch means 7.5 x 1.63g = ~12g of additional weight. There is no guarantee that this is the best fit however but the modular nature of the weights means experimentation is easy. I'd highly recommend getting one of those aftermarket weight kits like this one and experiment. Keep adding weight until it feels right/gets the best results/creates the tightest strike pattern. 

[PJE]

Golf is a game of inches and when you cut down a driver it’s a game of grams. There’s the conventional wisdom on adding swingweight points but I think it’s best to test with lead tape and then buy a weight.

I’ve cut down a few 45.75 drivers to 45 and just below 45 and it’s generally taken less added head weight than conventional wisdom to achieve nice results and a good feel.

I have a 44 7/8 driver that flat flies so there’s something to be said about a shorter shaft coupled with center strikes and moderate weighting. 
Good luck! Play well! 

[odshot68]

OP here.  Where do you guys add th Elena’s tape. Any pics. I’m co corned putting it on the back adds spin. Also how does shortening driver effect launch. Lower it?  Feel stiffer?  Less spin?

[odshot68]

Would it much different than a m6 rocket 3 wood at 14 degrees versus a shorten driver?  I remember Phil using a strong three wood as driver. 

[F1Aussie]

You could just put a kids shaft in it, lol. I took my 10 year old and his bestie to the local driving range this morning. They used a hire club, a driver, I would have thought it would have been no more than 30 inches long and they wanted me to hit the last 2 balls with it. I am 185cm tall and I had not loosened up but I was very surprised I hit it dead straight 185 metres, I guess that is a bit over 200 yards, was very surprised it went that far and dead straight. Ball speed was 200kmh. I think I would have needed to have been on my knees to get the correct height over the ball at set up, felt very weird 

 

[Drivingrangehero]

Best advise is go thru Howard’s DIY Driver Tune up⤵️

 

 

Dint get caught up in swingweight, just choke down and add weight (lead tape) till you get best results, then add up the weight of the lead tape, and buy a weight for your driver to match. 
 

i play my Driver with a High balancepoint/ Counterbalanced shaft at 44.75 (because i like the profile) and I don’t know the Swingweight value, but I did add 9g to the head

 

(I play a Tour Edge EXS 220 driver, since there are no Tour Edge weights available and no aftermarket weights to buy, i improvised and added 9g of yarn to the head. I got the weight I wanted and as a bonus it muted the sound. I will never go back to weights, it’s yarn for me from now on) 

 

[oneaugusta]

I went to shorter driver 5 years ago, results were immediately better in terms of dispersion.  The first two drivers, I had hotmelt added to get D3/D4 swingweight, my last two new drivers I ordered at 44.5 and requested  specified swingweight.  I can't stand the lead tape look so heavier weights or hotmelt would be an option.  Hotmelt in many drivers improves sound and feel but depends on what you have.  If you have a Ping 425 it's a win win......

[jamgam]

I just took 3W shaft out of Ping G410 I had and plopped it in 425 Max.  Never expected it to work but I haven't gone back and am the best off the tee than I've ever been.  I'll throw it on my SW scale today and see what it says

 

Edit:

 

So I just went and weighted it. 

 

Driver(G425Max) with 85G Evenflow Stiff 3W shaft in it is C8

Ping G425 5W with 65G Stiff Alta CB Shaft is D3

My Wilson CBs with DGS300 are D4-D5

 

I should probably slap a little lead tape on bottom of driver and see if it changes feel for me and performance

Edited April 22, 2023 by jamgam

[mc2]

Doesn't adding a significant amount of weight to the head (like 12g) make the shaft play softer? Significantly enough to potentially alter the swing? 
 

Of course the softer shaft could actually suit the OP better, however if it doesn't suit the OP, then a stiffer shaft might be needed to compensate. Right? (I'm no expert)
 

[mc2]

14 hours ago, odshot68 said:

I’ve always struggled to hit the driver due to my faster transition and the club getting stuck behind me so I block it or snap my hands through and pull hook it. I absolutely have always hit great three woods and strong three woods off the tee. So thinking of cutting my driver down from stock length of 45.75 down to 44.5”. I hate lead tape but not sure how much weight I would have to add to keep the same swing weight. Has anyone done this and can report back as to if it was worth it. I do play to a low plus index and realize this is what holds me back. I wish more companies made tour length drivers as cobra is the only one I know of unless I’m missing something. 

Worth considering lessons to help you hit well with a full length driver IMO.  
 

The endless f***ing around with head weights, lead tape, shaft length and different shafts gets tedious after a while, speaking from experience.

 

After years of that, I got a fitting for driver (into a 45.5 shaft), and one lesson  and I'm driving the ball better than ever. Picked up distance with the longer shaft and gained accuracy being fitted with the right shaft.

[keith723]

I’ve been playing around with driver length as well. First off, always played driver at 45” and D4 swing weight & was pretty content there. 
 

When it was mentioned Rory moved to 44.5” for better consistency/accuracy I cut down one of my Ventus Black TR 6-X to 44.5”.  Been playing the OG VB 6X tipped 1” at 45” but the TR was untipped and also 45” and was too squirrelly so had room to try something different with it.  44.5” was a tad too short for my comfort but did seem to tighten the shaft up, but only slightly - if I could do it over would have tipped it a 1/2” vs butt trim to 44.5” but beside the point, didn’t love it at 44.5” anyhow.

 

Long story short found a better shaft length and it’s going to stay. Landed on 44.75”, seems to be perfect compromise for me where I am comfortable but that 1/4” still somehow feels much more controllable and consistent than 45” I’ve been playing for years. Cut down a couple shafts to 44.75” with great results so finally took the gamer shaft down that 1/4” to 44.75” and it’s just perfect. Shaft doesn’t play any different - same launch/spin but noticeably more comfortable on the tee box and hitting more fairways.  I didn’t see a change to carry or speed at 44.5” or 44.75” vs the 45”, for reference. All the same results for distance but I’m only changing 1/2” or less - more drastic than that, hard to say, but I’ve just never seen any distance gains for me with todays standard of 45.5 or 45.75 to justify going there…always took a toll on accuracy for me.

 

BTW the shaft I cut down to 44.5” also didn’t launch/spin any different and barely plays any stiffer. I needed it to play a bit stiffer and prob would have had better luck, like I said if I had had tipped it the 1/2” vs butt trim the 1/2” but I didn’t love the length anyhow - again 44.75” was magic for me and that is only 1/4” shorter than I’ve played driver for the last decade or more…got the desired results, however.
 

We say it’s a game of inches though … or fractions in my case. Oddly enough irons and wedges are superior for me at +1/4”

Edited April 22, 2023 by keith723

[NRJyzr]

8 hours ago, odshot68 said:

OP here.  Where do you guys add th Elena’s tape. Any pics. I’m co corned putting it on the back adds spin. Also how does shortening driver effect launch. Lower it?  Feel stiffer?  Less spin?

 

8 hours ago, odshot68 said:

Would it much different than a m6 rocket 3 wood at 14 degrees versus a shorten driver?  I remember Phil using a strong three wood as driver. 

 

I put the lead tape somewhere on the bottom of the club, either toe or heel side, so it's out of the way.  I also mess around with the occasional old school driver (Cobra Deep Face, Mizuno T-Zoid Forged), also cut to 43.5", and the lead tape gets wrapped all around the back and sides of the head.  

 

Adding 12g to the clubhead to bring the swingweight back up 6.5 points will soften the shaft 1/3rd to a half flex, depending on how far apart that shaft's manufacturer have their flexes.  

 

It's not a bad idea to find a 3w shaft to try in your clubhead first, assuming you don't have a bonded driver, of course.  The 3w will have been already trimmed to account for the heavier headweight.

 

Choking up to test is also a viable option.  Add the lead tape, hit/play the club choking up that 1.25".  It's not perfect, due to the taper of the grip, but its an option.

 

Now, the 3w alternative...  I did this several years ago with a 12* TEE E8 Beta fairway wood.  It works, but the wood isn't as forgiving, and the club spun too much for me.

 

An alternative could be an 11.5* mini driver, tuned down to 10* or 9.5*, depending on the adapter being used.  These are designed to not have that spin issue that I saw with the 12* TEE.  I've got both an Original One and a 300 Mini, both are great, and see time in my bag.

 

Sorry for the possible TLDR post

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by NRJyzr

[odshot68]

The m6 rocket head is a very forgiving head. I tried a 13.5 tsr3 but was too low spin. 

[pak]

I went shorter last season with a heavier weight and things did not work out the way I expected. 
 

I ditched that shaft and went back to 45.75 and my driver has never been better.

 

Different strokes… I guess 

[DixieD]

Just played this morning wit a tour length speedzone I have just snagged. No range time, straight on the course and had my best driving day in ages. Maybe something in it, I'm only a shorty at 5 foot 9 and 46inch has always felt far too long.

[FirePro]

A couple questions to ask before I would simply cut the butt section of the shaft.

 

Do you like the feel of the driver shaft you currently play?

If yes you may want to simply choke down on the driver maybe draw a line on the grip or tape a line and start swinging at the driving range. 

Bring a roll of lead tape and find the swing weight that helps you hit the center of the face most consistently 

once you find the weight of head you like compare that with the stock driver head and a 3 wood head

find the delta and tip trim according to the shaft manufacture specs ie 1/4" if you are between the weight of both the standard driver head and standard 3 wood

if you want to make the shaft a little softer, you can skip this step if you want to make it more stout you can tip trim more to your liking.

once all this is done butt trim to your final length.

 

[tekman]

Remember if you do go that short, which I also do, flip the driver to the upright setting to get the lie correct.  The 45.75 length they all flattened the lie angles, so flipping the taylormade or callaway to the upright, or N/D setting will correct the lie angle to standards from about 5-6 years ago.  Enjoy hitting the center of the face more. Driver lengths are out of control, and 3 woods.  43 25 on a 3 wood is also ridiculous.

[TightenUpROOKIE]

I play my drivers at 44.5”, D4.5, with a 69g shaft (LOOP GK Prototype). All my heads have been built between 203-205g to get my SW back up to D4.5. Depending on what shaft you choose a 200+ gram head will get you closer.

[nectarpavla]

Went through this struggle when changing my grip on PING 425, shortened the club1/2 inch because of the stupid smart sensor in the stock grip.  

[Pepperturbo]

A low of 2, now a 4, 70+ yrs young, 5'10, 215lbs and still smacking it.  Stock driver lengths are the result of Iron Byron testing for optimum length and distance.  I've proven that to myself using 45.5" playing length.  The problem it's never comfortable; got no rational reason as to why; just is. Good swings, I get more yardage, but dispersion increases too; I don't like dispersion. 

 

In that vain, years back did extensive testing of lengths from 46" down to 43", 1/2" increments; and determined 44.75" playing length was optimal.  At 43-44.5 I lost a few yards, so didn't make sense to cut shorter, given I choke down 1/2-1" anyway.  The next issue was find the correct swing weight. 

 

Years back when I played 78g in driver, swing weights were not a problem.  Today, with ultra-lightweight shafts, finding proper swing weight helps some of us.  D0 gets me to swing out of my shoes, but D2 with a stiff tip and firm butt slows me just enough, so I can still go after it and trust the face will square up.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[gdb99]

On 4/22/2023 at 9:08 AM, mc2 said:

Doesn't adding a significant amount of weight to the head (like 12g) make the shaft play softer? Significantly enough to potentially alter the swing? 
 

Of course the softer shaft could actually suit the OP better, however if it doesn't suit the OP, then a stiffer shaft might be needed to compensate. Right? (I'm no expert)
 

But cutting the shaft might make the shaft play stiffer. I think they balance out good enough. 
 

I play my driver between 44-44.5”. Have been for years. 
 

I cut the shaft and bring a roll of lead tape to a driving range. 
 

Read the DIY thread that drivingrangehero posted.