Shorter driver shaft questions

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, gdb99 said:

But cutting the shaft might make the shaft play stiffer. I think they balance out good enough

 

It actually doesn't, with a caveat.  Butt trimming without adding weight to the clubhead results in an effectively neutral change in flex.  If you add weight to the clubhead after the butt trimming, you've softened the shaft, compared to its previous installation state. 

 

The caveat mention above relates to shaft profile variations.  

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by NRJyzr

[Valtiel]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:26 PM, odshot68 said:

OP here.  Where do you guys add th Elena’s tape. Any pics. I’m co corned putting it on the back adds spin. Also how does shortening driver effect launch. Lower it?  Feel stiffer?  Less spin?

There is no direct correlation to anything like launch/spin when it comes to this. The only things that happen for sure are the driver gets shorter, lighter, and slightly flatter in terms of lie angle. Everything after that will depend on you and how you react to that. 
 

I would not recommend trying to do all of this with lead tape though, 12g is a ton and it becomes hard to keep on. Start with aftermarket weights and augment with tape for smaller adjustments. Do NOT worry about things like spin right now because where you impact on the face has 10x more impact on spin rate than where you’d add the weight. And the goal of going shorter/heavier is to increase comfort/consistency/strike quality, so stay focused on that first. 

[Pastit]

4 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

There is no direct correlation to anything like launch/spin when it comes to this. The only things that happen for sure are the driver gets shorter, lighter, and slightly flatter in terms of lie angle. Everything after that will depend on you and how you react to that. 
 

I would not recommend trying to do all of this with lead tape though, 12g is a ton and it becomes hard to keep on. Start with aftermarket weights and augment with tape for smaller adjustments. Do NOT worry about things like spin right now because where you impact on the face has 10x more impact on spin rate than where you’d add the weight. And the goal of going shorter/heavier is to increase comfort/consistency/strike quality, so stay focused on that first. 

I thought more upright but I’m happy to be corrected ?

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Pastit said:

I thought more upright but I’m happy to be corrected ?

The head itself sits on the ground flatter (more toe down) when we shorten playing length assuming your address positions change appropriate to said length adjustment. This is why lie angles in stock iron sets get progressively more upright as they get shorter.

Think of it in extremes; two 58* lie angle driver heads, one with a wedge length shaft in it (35" or so) and one with a 5ft long shaft. The super short driver will have you standing much closer to the ball and the super long one much further away, creating an exaggerated version of this:


The 58* "wedge driver" will sit extremely flat (toe down/heel up) whereas the super long driver will have the toe pointed way up in the air. @tekman mentioned this earlier in suggesting that you use more upright adjustment sleeve settings to counteract the flattening effect of reducing playing length. 

[gdb99]

7 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It actually doesn't, with a caveat.  Butt trimming without adding weight to the clubhead results in an effectively neutral change in flex.  If you add weight to the clubhead after the butt trimming, you've softened the shaft, compared to its previous installation state. 

 

The caveat mention above relates to shaft profile variations.  

 

So if a heavier head makes a shaft softer, then a lighter swing weight doesn’t make the shaft slightly stiffer? 

[NRJyzr]

12 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

So if a heavier head makes a shaft softer, then a lighter swing weight doesn’t make the shaft slightly stiffer? 

 

If you keep the length the same, which means removing weight from the head, then yes.  If you're making it lighter swingweight by butt trimming, then no.

 

The butt section is the stiffest part of the shaft.  By removing some of it, you're effectively softening the shaft.  In a butt trimming situation, this is offset by the lighter swingweight; the two largely cancel.

 

This is where tip trimming for fairway wood installs comes into play.  If the butt trimming were making the shaft as much stiffer as some suggest, you wouldn't need to tip trim at all.

 

Shaft profile is definitely involved.  Though, not much with shorter trimming amounts 

 

[Pastit]

10 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The head itself sits on the ground flatter (more toe down) when we shorten playing length assuming your address positions change appropriate to said length adjustment. This is why lie angles in stock iron sets get progressively more upright as they get shorter.

Think of it in extremes; two 58* lie angle driver heads, one with a wedge length shaft in it (35" or so) and one with a 5ft long shaft. The super short driver will have you standing much closer to the ball and the super long one much further away, creating an exaggerated version of this:


The 58* "wedge driver" will sit extremely flat (toe down/heel up) whereas the super long driver will have the toe pointed way up in the air. @tekman mentioned this earlier in suggesting that you use more upright adjustment sleeve settings to counteract the flattening effect of reducing playing length. 

Thanks for taking the time to explain but I’ll have to work through this. I tend to work through trial and error being an ignoramus.

 

For instance, being right-handed on a hanging lie, ie ground falling away from me, I found it essential to get the heel off the ground by throwing the hands out. Thanks again.  

[Ger21]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, tekman said:

Remember if you do go that short, which I also do, flip the driver to the upright setting to get the lie correct. 

Thanks for pointing this out. Made the adjustment before my round yesterday and had my best driving day in a long time. 44-3/4"

[tekman]

Just now, Ger21 said:

Thanks for pointing this out. Made the adjustment before my round yesterday and had my best driving day in a long time. 44-3/4"

That's awesome!!!  

[FSUgolfer]

I like the comment of going upright. I’m at 45’ for the first time and am having a hard time aiming with the driver giving me a strong fade bias. The shaft profile is much stiffer than previous which I thought was the reason, but the fade may absolutely be attributed to a flatter lie angle. 

[Howard_Jones]

37 minutes ago, FSUgolfer said:

I like the comment of going upright. I’m at 45’ for the first time and am having a hard time aiming with the driver giving me a strong fade bias. The shaft profile is much stiffer than previous which I thought was the reason, but the fade may absolutely be attributed to a flatter lie angle. 

Dont be so sure about that, so just like irons, use the SHARPIE test to see if lie is upright, neutral or against flat at impact

I DONT think my label for IRONS will tell how much off lie angle is, but the direction will be the same, so check it and adjust if needed.

[FSUgolfer]

54 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Dont be so sure about that, so just like irons, use the SHARPIE test to see if lie is upright, neutral or against flat at impact

I DONT think my label for IRONS will tell how much off lie angle is, but the direction will be the same, so check it and adjust if needed.

Thanks for the tip. I already have the lead tape to the sole experiment on my to do list, will also add this next time I’m at the range. My plan is to get the weight dialed in first at a weight I want to maintain then I’ll throw tape on to determine any lie angle adjustments. 

[Easywhenitsbreezy]

Long time reader, first time posting. 
 

Driver has always been a strength in my game up until the past few years. I developed a nasty pull hook or block off the planet with a lot of contact on the low face. I generally just had no feel for where the club face was or wasn’t.  There were days when I strike it ok with driver but that big miss was always on my mind and God forbid there be trouble lurking left I was sure to find it. 

I decided to give Howard’s DIY tune up a try.

My current gamer is the MizunoST-G 220 std. setting 9* with stock weights in fade and back setting.(head weight 198g) . Shaft is from and old fitting years ago that I loved Miyazaki Dromos 72x playing 45” tipped 1/2”. 
 Went to the range and started the “fitting process”.  The results of going shorter for me were amazing! Finding the sweet spot consistently, no real loss of ball speed (maybe a couple mph), better launch angle,

and the left miss is all but gone. Thank you

Howard!

 

Final specs I settled on :43.75”(butt trimmed) playing length, have not added any weight to head.  

I don’t know if cutting driver length down is for everyone but with the results that I’ve had so far I don’t know how anyone can play these lengths the Oems are selling.

Here were some stats from my last range session. 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Easywhenitsbreezy
Forgot to add detail for trimming

[MikeW2]

This may be a stupid question but if you trim from the butt end of the club and then add weight to that same end with a butt weight or some form of a counter balance system and that is of equal weight to the amount of graphite you’ve cut off, wouldn’t the swing weight scale be in effect tricked and produce the same result?

[Howard_Jones]

37 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

This may be a stupid question but if you trim from the butt end of the club and then add weight to that same end with a butt weight or some form of a counter balance system and that is of equal weight to the amount of graphite you’ve cut off, wouldn’t the swing weight scale be in effect tricked and produce the same result?

Nono, its all about "force x arm"...when we go shorter, the distance to the head become shorter = less resistance, so it has nothing to do with the weight of the piece we cut off.

A graphite shaft its typical 46 long uncut, so lets say its 65 grams
65 grams / 46 inch = 1.41 grams pr inch

! layer of 0.015 Build up tape is 2 grams.....so we remove "next to nothing" as weight itself, but since it become shorter from out hands to the head, the head will FEEL lighter, even if it still has the same weight.

Some players needs to add a little back others dont, and only a few will need to "reset" the OG SW value, so just follow the DIY driver tune up, and find whats good for you, and dont think of values at all, ONLY what feels right and works good, and you will find that by using the tests in the DIY below here

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[MikeW2]

5 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Nono, its all about "force x arm"...when we go shorter, the distance to the head become shorter = less resistance, so it has nothing to do with the weight of the piece we cut off.

A graphite shaft its typical 46 long uncut, so lets say its 65 grams
65 grams / 46 inch = 1.41 grams pr inch

! layer of 0.015 Build up tape is 2 grams.....so we remove "next to nothing" as weight itself, but since it become shorter from out hands to the head, the head will FEEL lighter, even if it still has the same weight.

Some players needs to add a little back others down, and only a few will need to "reset" the OG SW value, so just follow the DIY driver tune up, and find whats good for you, and dont think of value at all, ONLY what feels right and works good, and you will find that by using the tests in the DIY below here

 

 

Thank you, makes perfect sense.

[Howard_Jones]

On 4/29/2023 at 5:41 PM, Easywhenitsbreezy said:

Long time reader, first time posting. 
 

Driver has always been a strength in my game up until the past few years. I developed a nasty pull hook or block off the planet with a lot of contact on the low face. I generally just had no feel for where the club face was or wasn’t.  There were days when I strike it ok with driver but that big miss was always on my mind and God forbid there be trouble lurking left I was sure to find it. 

I decided to give Howard’s DIY tune up a try.

My current gamer is the MizunoST-G 220 std. setting 9* with stock weights in fade and back setting.(head weight 198g) . Shaft is from and old fitting years ago that I loved Miyazaki Dromos 72x playing 45” tipped 1/2”. 
 Went to the range and started the “fitting process”.  The results of going shorter for me were amazing! Finding the sweet spot consistently, no real loss of ball speed (maybe a couple mph), better launch angle,

and the left miss is all but gone. Thank you

Howard!

 

Final specs I settled on :43.75”(butt trimmed) playing length, have not added any weight to head.  

I don’t know if cutting driver length down is for everyone but with the results that I’ve had so far I don’t know how anyone can play these lengths the Oems are selling.

Here were some stats from my last range session. 

 

I love to read that, and more players should drop their ego and thinking a long shaft give longer drives, it dont, and when you now start playing that "new club", you WILL get more fairways and better averages for distance than what you had.

I wish i could ask for a donation of only 1 INCH from the gained distance from all that has followed that DIY, and i would have been the world champ in long driving, since many thousands of players have used it with success 🙂

Edited May 21, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Kensel]

I cut my taylormade Qi 10 max driver 44.75 down to 42 inches and added 21 grams of swing weight to the head with weight tape feels good. Can't wait to hit it. The weather in Florida is rainy now so I'll have to wait to see how it performs but it feels good.

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, Kensel said:

I cut my taylormade Qi 10 max driver 44.75 down to 42 inches and added 21 grams of swing weight to the head with weight tape feels good. Can't wait to hit it. The weather in Florida is rainy now so I'll have to wait to see how it performs but it feels good.

Why did you cut it to 42, and added 21 grams if you did no try it off first?