2 seasons into a swing change, not making progress

[ZGriswold83]

I've been playing since I was 16, I'm 39 now. At one point I was consistently breaking 80 and having fun. I got married, had a kid and played less and less golf for a few years. About 2 1/2 years ago I went for a beginning of the season lesson and the pro wanted to completely change my swing. This started my swing change journey. I ended up diving into youtube trying to find different drills to improve. I found Dr Kwon, Monte, Malaska, etc and tried to implement these concepts into my own swing. I have been perpetually lost since. I have been to 3 or 4 pros around my area and have nothing to show for it. I recently found Jchowngolf on youtube, particularly this video

And I thought something clicked. I have been making what I thought were good swings I my house/garage and finally got tot he range. The first session, I hit the ball better than I had in 2 years, it was amazing. I went today and I have lost it all again. I am at the point now where I have tried and struggled so much, I don't know how many tries I have left in me. I understand I'm not going pro, I want to consistently shoot in the 70s again, but I don't have the quality of swing to do that. I get to the top of my swing and I have no idea how to get back down to it, I have so many thoughts rushing through my head.

 

Here's what I have been trying to achieve:

Shorten backswing, I've always had this issue.

 

Improve posture, I was too hunched over.

 

Stop my inside takeaway.

 

Steeper backswing, I can get very flat.

 

Stop early extending.

 

Better left hip movement.

 

*One big reason why I continued down the road of a swing overhaul is to have a golf swing that is easier on my low back. I have had a couple of low back soft tissue injuries and I don't want to injur it further.

 

I will take any advice, I just want to improve and I'm not. Here are several down the line swings from today, I randomly chose them.

Edited April 23, 2023 by ZGriswold83

[nlk10010]

I will only say this (famous last words): In my experience, if you're going to take lessons from a pro, take lessons from a pro. Don't search around on YT or other websites or go to other pros in an effort to accelerate the process by applying miscellaneous tips. Particularly in this case, "better is the enemy of good".

 

Don't ask me how I know. 🙂 

 

Good luck to you.

Edited April 23, 2023 by nlk10010

[Hawkeye77]

Find someone good and a good fit and stick with them.  Sounds like lots of jumping around, second guessing, too much self-analyzing.  Don't even know how many pros you've seen, haha, "3 or 4".  Too many in such a little time, IMO, given the other red flags.  So a typical golfer!

 

It's not like you have a bad swing for heaven's sake - still, those who could analyze (and those who can't, lol) will likely want a face on as well? I can't, so I won't, but nothing there suggests to this non-coach you should be so lost or not have the ability to break 80.

[Pepperturbo]

Surprising how often I see threads where someone is changing their swing or simply learning a swing, and impatience has them jumping from one teacher to the next, complaining about the fact nothing's happened. 

 

Not trying to be a hard-azz, but find ONE instructor, and stick with him/her, regardless of what YOU think.  You're in your own way of progress.  Without a commitment to one instructor, you and your swing are doomed to flounder. 

[Rosco1216]

Take a 9i/PW and hit only 9:00-3:00 full speed “punch” style shots from a pause at 9:00 and then try and stop follow through at 3:00. No wrist hinge(they will hinge but feel as if you don’t have any), and all body.  Hit only those until you start flushing it. Next range session do it again even if you start of flushing it don’t even start trying to hit full shots until the 3rd session after you hit 20-25 of the 9-3 shots. 

[Denny100]

WHY did you want to completely change your swing?

 

What were you trying to achieve when you went for the first lesson?

[Soloman1]

- You’re not too hunched over. You could use a little more knee bend.

- You’re not taking it inside.

- You’re not flat.

- You’re not grossly early extending.

 

 A face on view will show more, but you’re far from being a hopeless case. 🙂 Good potential, but looks more like a better downswing sequence will clean things up. Looks like an outside in path. Ball flight is?

 

 

 

 

[naj959]

+1000 What the other posters have said. Get off youtube. Find an instructor you have confidence in and follow their teachings blindly like a religious zealot. Finding a good one will be the hard part but will be worth the search. Swing doesn't look bad but you do have a slight steepening move to start your downswing. Find a coach to address that. 

[getitdaily]

Post a face on. There's a lot of good in what you're doing. Maybe sitting in the heels a bit at address, but the overall motion is solid. 

 

1 way miss or 2way miss? Which way if 1 way? What shot shape do you want? 

[RogerinNewZealand]

Good videos. Soloman said flex knees more👍Which clubs do you love practicing with...7i.5i.. 56. 5 wood...find out. Brings more passion to the practice. Ten balls each club sortof. 

Pull right foot back half a shoe length or more/ for a more inside path 2 impact..try this. 

I had a coach 8 years ago. Did ipad split screen video of me vs a Pga pro who had similar height build swing.

The classic here is His swing. You are similar till they sorta matched🙂

How Loose are you eg stretches flexibility wise. Maybe 5 physio sessions and the New Wrx ZMan is here👍

[ZGriswold83]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Surprising how often I see threads where someone is changing their swing or simply learning a swing, and impatience has them jumping from one teacher to the next, complaining about the fact nothing's happened. 

 

Not trying to be a hard-azz, but find ONE instructor, and stick with him/her, regardless of what YOU think.  You're in your own way of progress.  Without a commitment to one instructor, you and your swing are doomed to flounder. 

The first pro I went to,  who I really liked stopped teaching to sell insurance. Second one is who wanted me to completely change my swing, I didn't get along with his teaching and also had an issue with the course he worked at. Third pro just watched me swing and told stories for my entire lesson.  I'm running out of local pros.

[ZGriswold83]

1 hour ago, Denny100 said:

WHY did you want to completely change your swing?

 

What were you trying to achieve when you went for the first lesson?

My ball flight was a push fade/slice and I didn't know how to fix it. He said that I needed a complete rehaul of my swing. Then stuck an impact bag down and had me try to miss it and hit the ball. At one point he plugged a shaft into the ground, wanted me to swing outside the shaft going back and inside the shaft on my downswing. After about 4 or 5 tries I hit the shaft on my downswing and bent my 7 iron shaft. So I figured I would try the rehaul on my own.

 

Another big factor in wanting a swing change is because I have had low back soft tissue injuries in the past and I was tired of having back pain after playing golf.

Edited April 23, 2023 by ZGriswold83

[ZGriswold83]

1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

- You’re not too hunched over. You could use a little more knee bend.

- You’re not taking it inside.

- You’re not flat.

- You’re not grossly early extending.

 

 A face on view will show more, but you’re far from being a hopeless case. 🙂 Good potential, but looks more like a better downswing sequence will clean things up. Looks like an outside in path. Ball flight is?

 

 

 

 

Ball flight right now is a fade with push fades and the occasional hook as misses. Most often it's a push fade.

[Hawkeye77]

7 minutes ago, ZGriswold83 said:

The first pro I went to,  who I really liked stopped teaching to sell insurance. Second one is who wanted me to completely change my swing, I didn't get along with his teaching and also had an issue with the course he worked at. Third pro just watched me swing and told stories for my entire lesson.  I'm running out of local pros.

That all makes sense - expand the search!

[ZGriswold83]

53 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Post a face on. There's a lot of good in what you're doing. Maybe sitting in the heels a bit at address, but the overall motion is solid. 

 

1 way miss or 2way miss? Which way if 1 way? What shot shape do you want? 

I was going to, but my low back was hurting and I quit early. Main miss is a push fade, which I couldn't get away from today. I honestly don't care what my shape is as long as it's consistent.

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, ZGriswold83 said:

I was going to, but my low back was hurting and I quit early. Main miss is a push fade, which I couldn't get away from today. I honestly don't care what my shape is as long as it's consistent.

Based on the dtl swing above, you don't have a push fade. Your path is left. If the ball is starting right and going right, with your path above, you are WAY open to path. 

 

With that miss in mind I can now see a decent bit of casting from the top. 

[JetSpeed79]

You seem like a good candidate for a Monte video lesson. He may be able to simplify what you need to focus on and help you quiet some of that “paralysis by analysis” noise. 
 

I bet you’re closer to good golf than you think. 

[Nard_S]

Did not see swing but you have wife, job, kid, so two years is not long at all. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Nard_S

[ZGriswold83]

2 hours ago, Rosco1216 said:

Take a 9i/PW and hit only 9:00-3:00 full speed “punch” style shots from a pause at 9:00 and then try and stop follow through at 3:00. No wrist hinge(they will hinge but feel as if you don’t have any), and all body.  Hit only those until you start flushing it. Next range session do it again even if you start of flushing it don’t even start trying to hit full shots until the 3rd session after you hit 20-25 of the 9-3 shots. 

Thank you, I'll give it a try.

[ZGriswold83]

38 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Based on the dtl swing above, you don't have a push fade. Your path is left. If the ball is starting right and going right, with your path above, you are WAY open to path. 

 

With that miss in mind I can now see a decent bit of casting from the top. 

I'm assuming that it's my club face that is way open to the club path, is the casting causing that?

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, RogerinNewZealand said:

Pull right foot back half a shoe length or more/ for a more inside path 2 impact..try this. 

 

I agree completely with this.

 

Your back is hurting from all upper body turn and too limited pelvis turn.

 

A great drill for you would be to hit 3/4 shots with a 7-8 iron, pulling your right foot back so the toe is at the center of your left foot. Then rotate it out 45*. Turn that pelvis as you turn your torso.

 

It would clean up the laid off club at the top, which contributes to flipping at the bottom and also gets you to feel an inside out move to put an end to the dreaded weak slice. Do that for a bucket and you’ll be a new man, and we’ll never hear from you again. 😉

 

[ZGriswold83]

3 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I agree completely with this.

 

Your back is hurting from all upper body turn and too limited pelvis turn.

 

A great drill for you would be to hit 3/4 shots with a 7-8 iron, pulling your right foot back so the toe is at the center of your left foot. Then rotate it out 45*. Turn that pelvis as you turn your torso.

 

It would clean up the laid off club at the top, which contributes to flipping at the bottom and also gets you to feel an inside out move to put an end to the dreaded weak slice. Do that for a bucket and you’ll be a new man, and we’ll never hear from you again. 😉

 

I will 100% try this. I was always under the impression that my pelvis and torso should turn independently. Is turning my pelvis and torso together just for the drill?

[Soloman1]

A good benchmark is a pelvis turn at the top of half the torso turn. If torso is 90*, pelvis at 45*. Go ahead and turn back simultaneously and feel like your left shoulder is going down toward the ball.

[Jimjam651]

Ah mate, I feel like there are two things happening here

 

1 - You're a searcher

2 - You're just getting golfed

 

I'm a searcher too, so I feel your pain 😂

 

Here's what you need to do

 

1 - Do your research and find a well thought of local coach (as there really are good and bad ones) or start doing some online stuff with someone as you can access some really good coaching online these days

2 - Stick with that coach, stick to the changes and be prepared for it to feel disgusting for a while

3 - If you're really in to practice, learn how to practice properly so you're don't feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall all the time

 

Here's what you need to stop doing

1 - Youtube golf swing video rabbit holes, its a dangerous road to go down 😂

2 - Don't take swing tips from people on this forum unless it's from one of the recognised coaches

 

We've all felt how you've felt! It's so easy to get lost wiht golf sometimes!

 

Edit - I've just realised that what I've said could be read as criticising some of the help you've received in this thread already, just to clarify it's not aimed at any posts I've read so far - it's more that you've already taken on board three different ideas from three different posters already lol

Edited April 23, 2023 by Jimjam651

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, ZGriswold83 said:

I'm assuming that it's my club face that is way open to the club path, is the casting causing that?

Yes and yes

[otto6457]

Might be a dumb question, but if you like Jchown's instruction why not do a Skillest lesson with him and see how it goes?  If your local pros are not helping you progress, you either have to travel or do some sort of online instruction.

 

What you can't keep doing is having a lot of cooks in you're kitchen telling you different recipes.  Especially when you don't even know what you're trying to cook.

[ZGriswold83]

3 minutes ago, otto6457 said:

Might be a dumb question, but if you like Jchown's instruction why not do a Skillest lesson with him and see how it goes?  If your local pros are not helping you progress, you either have to travel or do some sort of online instruction.

 

What you can't keep doing is having a lot of cooks in you're kitchen telling you different recipes.  Especially when you don't even know what you're trying to cook.

Money, I can't afford sustained lessons with a golf pro.

[Valtiel]

Something to augment the other advice given...

I checked back over your previous threads and there *is* a lot of improvement in what you're doing now vs. then. All of the inside takeaway/overrunning backswing stuff is gone and you're in a great "neutral" position now:



The shaft is on plane, wrist conditions are good, clubface is square, rotation is good albeit on the "smaller" side, which isn't necessarily bad. Your right leg might be a *little* locked out e.g. no flexion, but it's hard to tell with the dark lighting.

All the problems come from (surprise) your pivot and transition:



That is almost ALL "right side coming forward" towards the ball with minimal left side movement. You're stuck on your back leg and using it for all your rotation. This throws your path out and steepens the shaft plane which only gets worse further into the downswing:



Clubface wide open, all angles thrown away early, and way from the outside. Your address vs. impact position shows the root of this clearly:



ALL right side movement kicking in towards the ball, no left side rotation at all. Notably your hands have returned to almost the same position they were in at address, which while a good thing in a vacuum is spoiled by the fact that in order to do that you had to come way over the top since your right leg is completely blocking the neutral path your hands should have taken.

Notice a few crucial things when comparing to the JChownGolf video. First, right knee. Yours kicks out straight towards the ball whereas his is functionally in the place it was at address. Second, left leg. His left leg is visible at impact because it worked backwards (away from the ball) in the downswing, whereas yours is visible only because your right side worked out towards the ball. His rotation was created correctly via the left side working back, yours was created incorrectly by the right side coming forward.

So in summary you're doing a lot of things right, but the incorrect usage of your lower body is spoiling it by forcing your path out and across the ball. Try doing the "shaft in the belt loop" exercise he suggests so you have a visual marker for the movement you need to create.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Valtiel

[jordan2240]

First thing I would consider is whether or not your lower back issues were due to your old swing or something else.  It doesn't sound to me like any of the pros was trying to give you a more back-friendly swing, so not sure there was a point to the changes.  Perhaps a regular stretching routine would help.  Also, don't know if you walk or ride when you play, but I'd highly suggest walking if you can do it.  My back always got stiffer whenever I road (which was very infrequently, and now almost never).

 

I wouldn't advise it for everyone necessarily, but I recently started to re-experiment with stack-and-tilt and have liked the results, and I believe it's supposed to be back friendly.

Edited April 23, 2023 by jordan2240

[ZGriswold83]

39 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Something to augment the other advice given...

I checked back over your previous threads and there *is* a lot of improvement in what you're doing now vs. then. All of the inside takeaway/overrunning backswing stuff is gone and you're in a great "neutral" position now:



The shaft is on plane, wrist conditions are good, clubface is square, rotation is good albeit on the "smaller" side, which isn't necessarily bad. Your right leg might be a *little* locked out e.g. no flexion, but it's hard to tell with the dark lighting.

All the problems come from (surprise) your pivot and transition:



That is almost ALL "right side coming forward" towards the ball with minimal left side movement. You're stuck on your back leg and using it for all your rotation. This throws your path out and steepens the shaft plane which only gets worse further into the downswing:



Clubface wide open, all angles thrown away early, and way from the outside. Your address vs. impact position shows the root of this clearly:



ALL right side movement kicking in towards the ball, no left side rotation at all. Notably your hands have returned to almost the same position they were in at address, which while a good thing in a vacuum is spoiled by the fact that in order to do that you had to come way over the top since your right leg is completely blocking the neutral path your hands should have taken.

Notice a few crucial things when comparing to the JChownGolf video. First, right knee. Yours kicks out straight towards the ball whereas his is functionally in the place it was at address. Second, left leg. His left leg is visible at impact because it worked backwards (away from the ball) in the downswing, whereas yours is visible only because your right side worked out towards the ball. His rotation was created correctly via the left side working back, yours was created incorrectly by the right side coming forward.

So in summary you're doing a lot of things right, but the incorrect usage of your lower body is spoiling it by forcing your path out and across the ball. Try doing the "shaft in the belt loop" exercise he suggests so you have a visual marker for the movement you need to create.

 

Wow, thank you for such a detailed write up. It's really refreshing to know that I'm at least going in the right direction. I wear my heart on my sleeve, which is not necessarily great for the struggles golf presents. This little bit of confirmation will go a long way. 

 

I need to find a feeling for this because all of these swings felt like my left side was moving back, but that's very obviously not happening.

Edited April 23, 2023 by ZGriswold83