Eligibility for a Major

[BrianMcG]

22 hours ago, Tiptx1122 said:

Back when Bobby Jones played there were only 3 if that channels available to watch back in the day. Golf wasn't one of them LoL!

 

Try radio.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

That's interesting, I didn't realise that.

 

I'm not saying don't play the Masters, just that it shouldn't be a major with its current format. To me, its a quirky, entertaining invitational played on a visually beautiful course but with a small, compromised field.

 

Of course as a start they could always change the field composition to exclude old past winners who are no longer competitive - the par 3 event and the dinner should be fine for them, there's the tradition and their places in the event can be given to players that have the ability to contend. Then increase the field size.

I could do with a field increase and less old timers for sure.  And I wasn’t trying to be snarky before.   It’s just that most of us born in the south will place the masters above all other majors.   When you’re a kid on the practice green here , the dream putt isn’t to win the US open.  Or the open Open , it’s to win the masters.  
 

The reason for that in my opinion is that we’re always treated like red headed step children in the golf world. Even though we have more courses and play more rounds.   I think Bob Jones built his club where he did , and the traditions are how they are ( food , decorum etc) because it reflects the culture here . I believe that was part of the point. 
 

even though I’d be fine with a field increase. The exclusivity of the field in a way makes it the hardest to get into.  You have to do something Speacial in the AM world , or be a top 50 player , or have won it or another top event in the last year . I don’t see it leaving too many out really. 

[Hawkeye77]

On 6/15/2023 at 6:38 AM, Rapidcat said:

 

Well at least it's not as bad as the USPGA Championship where 20 US club pros get to play.

 

Or The Masters with a bunch of elderly winners from 30 years ago in a limited field.

 

Those two above = fake majors.

Hmmm, wonder why member of the actual PGA get to play in their own event? And it's a large field - one of the best majors and high quality venues and consistently ranked as one of the toughest fields.

 

The Masters weeded out most of the "elderly" winners years ago, first by trying it too heavy handed, then with just (outwardly) gentle pressure - the "elderly" are few and far between so an uninformed take and has been for many, many years.  Haven't noticed Freddie or Bernhard embarrassing themselves, causing problems in the locker room or running on the course.

 

"Fake" majors? LOL, which tourney major or otherwise is ALWAYS at the top of the list players most want to win overall?  Their stature as majors was noted as far back as the 40s and solidified ever since.  

 

I guess people says silly things to get responses, so there you are, I bit.

 

Now back to some guy that really isn't that great in majors . . . .

[Rapidcat]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

I could do with a field increase and less old timers for sure.  And I wasn’t trying to be snarky before.   It’s just that most of us born in the south will place the masters above all other majors.   When you’re a kid on the practice green here , the dream putt isn’t to win the US open.  Or the open Open , it’s to win the masters.  
 

The reason for that in my opinion is that we’re always treated like red headed step children in the golf world. Even though we have more courses and play more rounds.   I think Bob Jones built his club where he did , and the traditions are how they are ( food , decorum etc) because it reflects the culture here . I believe that was part of the point. 
 

even though I’d be fine with a field increase. The exclusivity of the field in a way makes it the hardest to get into.  You have to do something Speacial in the AM world , or be a top 50 player , or have won it or another top event in the last year . I don’t see it leaving too many out really. 

 

I didn't take your comment as snarky so all fine with me and I'd never heard the comments you expressed about golf in the south presented in that way so I learn something. Your comments on here I usually find interesting, although I might not always agree with you haha.

 

The Masters is probably my favorite golf event, just think it needs some tweaking re its field composition to operate as a true major - just my opinion. By all means keep most of the others that reflect golf in the south.

[Rapidcat]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Hmmm, wonder why member of the actual PGA get to play in their own event? And it's a large field - one of the best majors and high quality venues and consistently ranked as one of the toughest fields.

 

The Masters weeded out most of the "elderly" winners years ago, first by trying it too heavy handed, then with just (outwardly) gentle pressure - the "elderly" are few and far between so an uninformed take and has been for many, many years.  Haven't noticed Freddie or Bernhard embarrassing themselves, causing problems in the locker room or running on the course.

 

"Fake" majors? LOL, which tourney major or otherwise is ALWAYS at the top of the list players most want to win overall?  Their stature as majors was noted as far back as the 40s and solidified ever since.  

 

I guess people says silly things to get responses, so there you are, I bit.

 

Now back to some guy that really isn't that great in majors . . . .

 

I don't say silly things to get a response but I do like to challenge the status quo when I see stuff I don't agree with. Be very vanilla on here if we all had the same opinions.

 

Re field composition, it is simple to my mind:

 

20 PGA club pros shouldn't have spots reserved for them in a major if that is the only way they qualify.

 

Guys that won the event 30+ years ago shouldn't have a spot in the field  if that is the only way they qualify.

 

These events can do what they want but the above devalues their rating as a major.

 

The two real majors are being played right now and next month.

 

 

 

[kasting333]

It is always apparent to me that there’s a lot of no names (unproven might be more appt) at these Open majors.
 

Honestly, I wish there was way more truly open events bc qualifiers can make a run every now and then. I also like watching the ams/young pros and hearing their stories. 
 

It is more apparent this year bc there’s about 15-20 pros that would’ve probably been there if not for the new tour and falling off in the rankings. 

[widow-maker]

Each Major has its own quirkiness.  The two Open Championships.... anybody can qualify.  The PGA Championship usually has the strongest field of all the Majors but they do reserve spots for Club Professionals.  The Masters is an Invitational and they do things their way.  Regardless, tradition and longevity have given them their place.  They ascended to their status organically and no one organization can claim what is and what isn't a Major Championship in golf.  Money can't buy you status as the Players Championship, Tour Championship and Saudis have found out.   All four organizations make minor changes to their qualifications but the simple reason they don't change radically is because it works very well for them in its current form.  LIV was a radical change to golf and nobody watches it comparatively.  Tournament golf is built on history and tradition and most golf viewers are very comfortable with that.  It's just something that doesn't need to change because it's successful the way it is. 

[jimecherry]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I could do with a field increase and less old timers for sure.  And I wasn’t trying to be snarky before.   It’s just that most of us born in the south will place the masters above all other majors.   When you’re a kid on the practice green here , the dream putt isn’t to win the US open.  Or the open Open , it’s to win the masters.  
 

The reason for that in my opinion is that we’re always treated like red headed step children in the golf world. Even though we have more courses and play more rounds.   I think Bob Jones built his club where he did , and the traditions are how they are ( food , decorum etc) because it reflects the culture here . I believe that was part of the point. 
 

even though I’d be fine with a field increase. The exclusivity of the field in a way makes it the hardest to get into.  You have to do something Speacial in the AM world , or be a top 50 player , or have won it or another top event in the last year . I don’t see it leaving too many out really. 

More than 20 pga events are held in SEC states now that texas is an sec state.

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

I don't say silly things to get a response but I do like to challenge the status quo when I see stuff I don't agree with. Be very vanilla on here if we all had the same opinions.

 

Re field composition, it is simple to my mind:

 

20 PGA club pros shouldn't have spots reserved for them in a major if that is the only way they qualify.

 

Guys that won the event 30+ years ago shouldn't have a spot in the field  if that is the only way they qualify.

 

These events can do what they want but the above devalues their rating as a major.

 

The two real majors are being played right now and next month.

 

 

 

Even with the club pros the PGA typically has the strongest field.

 

What you seem to misunderstand is that majors are not necessarily the best fields or strongest events.  They are just 4 events deemed a big deal some 75-100 years ago.  Yes, there are events with a stronger field being played.

 

Your complaint would be like complaining that the Miami Heat should not have been allowed in the NBA finals as an 8 seed.

[Rapidcat]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Even with the club pros the PGA typically has the strongest field.

 

What you seem to misunderstand is that majors are not necessarily the best fields or strongest events.  They are just 4 events deemed a big deal some 75-100 years ago.  Yes, there are events with a stronger field being played.

 

Your complaint would be like complaining that the Miami Heat should not have been allowed in the NBA finals as an 8 seed.

 

As an Aussie, I have no comprehension re your Miami Heat comment, sorry. Golf is a world game and majors should be world-worthy.

 

What I do understand is that a major should be the highest standard field, nothing else is good enough. With 20 pga club pros, the USPGA can never be the strongest field as it includes 20 tournament duds.

 

So using your 'big deal' logic, should the Memorial be a major in say another 50 years?

[widow-maker]

7 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

As an Aussie, I have no comprehension re your Miami Heat comment, sorry. Golf is a world game and majors should be world-worthy.

 

What I do understand is that a major should be the highest standard field, nothing else is good enough. With 20 pga club pros, the USPGA can never be the strongest field as it includes 20 tournament duds.

 

So using your 'big deal' logic, should the Memorial be a major in say another 50 years?

The PGA Championship has the strongest field amongst the Majors.  Should the Opens stop allowing qualifiers and become closed events?  Statistically the PGA Championship has a stronger strength of field than the Players Championship.  Not sure why you're picking on that event when it's typically got the strongest strength of field of almost any event played. 

[Rapidcat]

2 minutes ago, widow-maker said:

The PGA Championship has the strongest field amongst the Majors.  Should the Opens stop allowing qualifiers and become closed events?  Statistically the PGA Championship has a stronger strength of field than the Players Championship.  Not sure why you're picking on that event when it's typically got the strongest strength of field of almost any event played. 

 

Because it has 20 guys that shouldn't be playing in a major.

[widow-maker]

24 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Because it has 20 guys that shouldn't be playing in a major.

All the other Majors have 20 guys or more that shouldn't be playing in Majors.  The Masters has 10-15 former Champions who play that don't have a chance and another handful of amateurs.   Both Open Championships have 20 or more qualifiers, many of them amateurs.  The PGA Championship at Oak Hill had 99 out of the top 100 players in the world in the field.  No other field in golf can top that. 

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, jimecherry said:

More than 20 pga events are held in SEC states now that texas is an sec state.

None are majors.  That’s my point.  Kiawah or pinehurst.  That’s it. Kiawah is good. Pinehurst is a tourist trap.  

[Shilgy]

45 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

As an Aussie, I have no comprehension re your Miami Heat comment, sorry. Golf is a world game and majors should be world-worthy.

 

What I do understand is that a major should be the highest standard field, nothing else is good enough. With 20 pga club pros, the USPGA can never be the strongest field as it includes 20 tournament duds.

 

So using your 'big deal' logic, should the Memorial be a major in say another 50 years?

As an Aussie would you feel cheated if a team made a run in your Aussie football playoffs?  By your logic only the 1 and 2 seeds should meet in the finals.

 

I said nothing about elevating other events to majors.  The majors have history and you seem to want them to be just an elevated event.

[jimecherry]

5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

None are majors.  That’s my point.  Kiawah or pinehurst.  That’s it. Kiawah is good. Pinehurst is a tourist trap.  

my point is the pro golf world now days is almost based out of the sec so Bobby got his wish.

[Rapidcat]

4 minutes ago, widow-maker said:

All the other Majors have 20 guys or more that shouldn't be playing in Majors.  The Masters has 10-15 former Champions who play that don't have a chance and another handful of amateurs.   Both Open Championships have 20 or more qualifiers, many of them amateurs.  The PGA Championship at Oak Hill had 99 out of the top 100 players in the world in the field.  No other field in golf can top that. 

 

Yep, The Masters also is a compromised field, thanks for conforming that. not a proper major.

 

The 2 Open majors are pure because anyone can qualify, am or pro.

 

The PGA championship still have 20 USPGA club pros whose playing skills shouldn't qualify them to play in a major. Doesn't mean the event shouldn't exist, just that it shouldn't be a major in its current format.

 

So why have the dates of the PGA Championship been moved to earlier in the year?

[Rapidcat]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

As an Aussie would you feel cheated if a team made a run in your Aussie football playoffs?  By your logic only the 1 and 2 seeds should meet in the finals.

 

I said nothing about elevating other events to majors.  The majors have history and you seem to want them to be just an elevated event.

 

Sorry, I don't understand your Aussie rules, analogy, can you explain?

[jimecherry]

Just now, Rapidcat said:

 

Yep, The Masters also is a compromised field, thanks for conforming that. not a proper major.

 

The 2 Open majors are pure because anyone can qualify, am or pro.

 

The PGA championship still have 20 USPGA club pros whose playing skills shouldn't qualify them to play in a major. Doesn't mean the event shouldn't exist, just that it shouldn't be a major in its current format.

 

So why have the dates of the PGA Championship been moved to earlier in the year?

I agree replace the masters and the pga with the ausie open, and some other open ;}

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

my point is the pro golf world now days is almost based out of the sec so Bobby got his wish.

Well yes.  I guess I’m just sour that the New Jersey elitists keep the us open northeast , or west coast.   

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

None are majors.  That’s my point.  Kiawah or pinehurst.  That’s it. Kiawah is good. Pinehurst is a tourist trap.  

Well, we tried Shoal Creek….didn’t turn out so good? Tried Atlantic Athletic Club…Champions…Northwood…Colonial.  That’s just the US Open.

 

PGA has(as you noted)Kiawah Island…Quail Hollow…Atlanta…Valhalla…PGA National…

 

And you already get 25% of all majors at Augusta National.

 

So share some with the rest of us!🤣

[bladehunter]

Just now, jimecherry said:

I agree replace the masters and the pga with the ausie open, and some other open ;}

Some places  i think are too isolationist to hold a major.  We can’t go with 2/3 year gaps of interrupted play.  

[bladehunter]

Just now, Shilgy said:

Well, we tried Shoal Creek….didn’t turn out so good? Tried Atlantic Athletic Club…Champions…Northwood…Colonial.  That’s just the US Open.

 

PGA has(as you noted)Kiawah Island…Quail Hollow…Atlanta…Valhalla…PGA National…

 

And you already get 25% of all majors at Augusta National.

 

So share some with the rest of us!🤣

Pga shouldn’t be a major.  I don’t count it. 

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, jimecherry said:

I agree replace the masters and the pga with the ausie open, and some other open ;}

 

I'm not actually advocating for an Aussie major, I don't think we deserve it.

 

However there should be one Asian major.

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Sorry, I don't understand your Aussie rules, analogy, can you explain?

Do you follow sports at all?  Does rugby or Aussie football have a playoff?  Do you feel he championship gam has to always match up the two best teams all season?

[Shilgy]

Just now, Rapidcat said:

 

I'm not actually advocating for an Aussie major, I don't think we deserve it.

 

However there should be one Asian major.

Why?  There hasn’t exactly been a large number of Asian born champions.

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Pga shouldn’t be a major.  I don’t count it. 

This should be interesting….

 

Why?

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

This should be interesting….

 

Why?

No real reason.  It just never feels like a special event to me. The open open has links. Masters has Augusta , Us open is supposed to be hardest , ( except this year ). And the pga has what ?  Sweater  folders playing with tour pros ?  Just very forgettable. Phil’s won at kiawah is the only one in 10 years I can recall shots from.  

[Rapidcat]

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Do you follow sports at all?  Does rugby or Aussie football have a playoff?  Do you feel he championship gam has to always match up the two best teams all season?

 

Don't be rude please, of course I follow sports.

 

Restrain your displeasure.

 

It might surprise you that few outside the US follow US sports - US football, baseball, even US basketball.

 

This is a golf forum.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Rapidcat

[Rapidcat]

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Why?  There hasn’t exactly been a large number of Asian born champions.

 

Because it reflects world golf.

 

Most of the women's major champions are now Asian, perhaps that doesn't count with you?