USGA Qualifiers Beware. Vice Pro Plus Lime & several others not on current USGA List of Conforming Golf Balls

[Bob Cat]

I don't require a USGA conforming ball in my world but I still won't trade with a company that knowingly misrepresents their own product AND return policy.  Clowns.

 

"PRODUCT DEFECTS / MISREPRESENTATION
If the return is due to a product misrepresentation or product defect, please contact a Customer Care Agent at support@vicegolf.com."

[Yuck]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:10 AM, North Butte said:

But why would someone interested in serious tournament play want to get used to playing a ball they can only use when there's a specific wording in the conditions of competition? So they'd play 100+ rounds a year with a ball not on the list then, what, practice up with a conforming ball for a couple rounds right before that one tournament that specifies "on the conforming list"? 

 

If you're going to be a serious competitor, there are literally hundreds of ball models out there suitable for serious competition. 

 

And it isn't like that one specific, white-label, Asian contract factory ball is so great it's worth having to Rules-lawyer each tournament before you play, to make sure you can use it. That's just nuts. Play a ball on the darned list, all potential problems avoided. 

Agreed.  The Ball Vice Pro Plus White and the Lime had been on the list until May of this year.  So I was used to it and had played it both in competition and recreationally for a couple years.  My problem was the lack of communication from Vice when it was removed from the list, and the reassurance from Vice it would be back on the September USGA list.  Obviously that did not happen, and you are right about playing a ball on the list,  I went back to Pro V1x my last USGA event, and will again in an upcoming FSGA event.  I would not risk knowingly playing a club or ball not on the list, in particular when the Event clearly states those rules are in effect and it is the Players responsibility to verify.

[kwonye]

This kind of lapse is embarrassing... I wonder if they see themselves as strictly for recreational golfers?

[darsony]

I imagine there's a cost to submitting a ball for testing. I know there is for submitting irons for groove testing. it certainly is possible that Vice doesn't want to pay the fee and maybe the fee went up.

[cardigan]

41 minutes ago, darsony said:

I imagine there's a cost to submitting a ball for testing. I know there is for submitting irons for groove testing. it certainly is possible that Vice doesn't want to pay the fee and maybe the fee went up.

For 2023, it's $1200 for each submission to the USGA.

[darsony]

8 hours ago, cardigan said:

For 2023, it's $1200 for each submission to the USGA.

you're kidding!  that's crazy expensive IMO.  

[cardigan]

32 minutes ago, darsony said:

you're kidding!  that's crazy expensive IMO.  

 

Doesn't seem particularly high to me but you can take a look at the testing protocols for balls and make your own opinion.  As a private company, their financial information isn't public AFAIK but It's hard for me to believe that the submission fees would be a major hurdle for a company big enough to be a supplier for Walmart and Target.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/equipment-standards/test-protocols-for-equipment-9df6d04f.html

 

 

[Yuck]

Update,

 

 

I received this email from Vice today.  It is a response to my query regarding Vice Lime Pro Plus still not on the September 6th conforming ball list.  I have forwarded the email from Vice to USGA Testing for their comments.  I am not sure what to believe at this point.

 

 

Thank you for reaching out and for bringing this to our attention. I was able to talk to management and it looks like a clerical error occurred that is why the Neon Lime ball wasn't listed although it was already tested. The rest of the Vice balls are already there. Sadly it might take a bit for the official list to be updated so all we can do is wait and check. It looks like it's not just Vice whos missing some of their balls on the official list.
 
Danke & beste Grüße,
John

CUSTOMER CARE

::: V I C E :::

VICE SPORTING GOODS GMBH 
PAUL-HEYSE-STR. 28 | 80336 MUENCHEN | GERMANY

REGISTERGERICHT: MUENCHEN 
HRB 202590 
GESCHÄFTSFÜHRER: INGO DÜLLMANN, RAINER STÖCKL

EMAIL :: support@vicegolf.com
TEL :: 1-888-6420934
WEB :: http://www.vicegolf.com

[st1800e]

4 hours ago, Yuck said:

It looks like it's not just Vice whos missing some of their balls on the official list.

Deflection

[cardigan]

14 hours ago, Yuck said:

Update,

 

 

I received this email from Vice today.  It is a response to my query regarding Vice Lime Pro Plus still not on the September 6th conforming ball list.  I have forwarded the email from Vice to USGA Testing for their comments.  I am not sure what to believe at this point.

 

 

Thank you for reaching out and for bringing this to our attention. I was able to talk to management and it looks like a clerical error occurred that is why the Neon Lime ball wasn't listed although it was already tested. The rest of the Vice balls are already there. Sadly it might take a bit for the official list to be updated so all we can do is wait and check. It looks like it's not just Vice whos missing some of their balls on the official list.
 
Danke & beste Grüße,
John

CUSTOMER CARE

::: V I C E :::

VICE SPORTING GOODS GMBH 
PAUL-HEYSE-STR. 28 | 80336 MUENCHEN | GERMANY

REGISTERGERICHT: MUENCHEN 
HRB 202590 
GESCHÄFTSFÜHRER: INGO DÜLLMANN, RAINER STÖCKL

EMAIL :: support@vicegolf.com
TEL :: 1-888-6420934
WEB :: http://www.vicegolf.com

"... the rest of the balls are already there" clearly isn't true.  White pro plus, red pro plus, lime pro, red pro, standard white pro soft, and some of the "drip" options are still missing.

[Yuck]

Got a email back from USGA testing today regarding Vice Pro Plus Lime & Pro Plus White.  They indicated I would have to contact Vice to determine when they were going to submit the missing balls for testing.  Vice clearly does not have their act together on this.  Too bad, I liked the ball.

[cardigan]

The white pro plus and the lime pro plus are back on the list now.

[storm3]

On 10/2/2023 at 9:16 PM, cardigan said:

The white pro plus and the lime pro plus are back on the list now.

Looks like a couple of drip models are still missing, but everything else that Vice currently has for sale seems to be accounted for. 

For those following the timeline, the deadline for the September list had already passed by the time this thread started so my guess is that someone at Vice simply missed the resubmissions and the multiple inquiries instigated by this thread reminded them.

Edited October 4, 2023 by storm319

[Yuck]

Finally.  I hope Vice has learned something here.  Something tells me they made some bad assumptions.  This was one of the emails I got from them during this Saga.

 

 

 

John Palamine (Vice Golf)  Sep 18, 2023, 16:51 GMT+2  Thank you for the feedback as well. Sometimes our IT team tends to miss updating these notices on the website. It's just is a bit off for me TBH why they don't allow the colored versions to be used when the base white model is already listed. It is literally the same ball just with a different hue.   CUSTOMER CARE

[cardigan]

3 hours ago, Yuck said:

Finally.  I hope Vice has learned something here.  Something tells me they made some bad assumptions.  This was one of the emails I got from them during this Saga.

 

 

 

John Palamine (Vice Golf)  Sep 18, 2023, 16:51 GMT+2  Thank you for the feedback as well. Sometimes our IT team tends to miss updating these notices on the website. It's just is a bit off for me TBH why they don't allow the colored versions to be used when the base white model is already listed. It is literally the same ball just with a different hue.   CUSTOMER CARE

I would assume that the customer service folks didn't really know all of the details of what was going on and/or they were given (specific or general) guidelines on how to respond to the inquiries.  It has to be known by the folks at Vice that it's well documented in the submission guidelines that different color balls need to be submitted separately.  Otherwise, they wouldn't have bothered submitting the different colors in the past.  That aside, the base white model of the pro plus was also missing from list during that time.  Since apparently nothing occurred during the time the balls were missing from the list caused enough of an outcry to compel Vice to release any kind of "official" statement, I think we are just going to have to chalk it up to some kind of lapse and/or incompetence.

 

 

 

 

[Yuck]

Glad the balls are legal again.  The sad part of this whole situation is that a high profile DQ was possible for the entire Summer Major amateur season.  A player who has played a ball that was legal in the past, might not have checked the list in June, July, August or Sept and played the ball they normally play.  Although Vice knew about this situation, they did not take any steps to communicate it to their customers.  

 

For those who said, “who is going to catch you, playing a ball not on the list”.  The expectation in Golf has always been, once you are aware you may have commited an infraction, you let a rules official know, at which point you would be Disqualfied.

[cardigan]

The safest bet is to just check the list before participating in any tournament that requires a ball be on the list.  That's way easier than going to check something like a ball manufacturer's website or Twitter page to see if they've published some announcement and you don't have to wonder if their information is accurate and timely.  I would definitely expect a company to directly notify any players that they have endorsement deals with (I have no idea if Vice has any) about balls falling off the list but at the end of the day it's always the player's responsibility.  I'd say it's especially important to check for yourself if the ball is from a company that isn't one of the big OEM's as they are way more likely to just let prior generation or discontinued balls fall off the list permanently with no warning (like the OG 4 piece Kirkland balls that I have stashed for no rational reason).