Rule 10.2b(4) at The Open Championship

[Mr. Bean]

48 minutes ago, Colin L said:

On the matter of angles, I recollect having to check out a caddy in a tournament  when word came to us that he was standing directly behind his player throughout the preliminaries and the stroke.    When I reached him, I tried to assess the likelihood of a breach from the side of the fairway. I just couldn't tell and moved further in  but in the end had to stand on the extension of the line of play in order to make a fair judgment.   There was no doubt that he was but there was no such certainty from wider angles.

 

 

A couple of times I have had a similar impression that someone who is not supposed to is standing behind a player during the stroke. As I have not had the required certainty due to the angle I have reached the person in question and said "It seemed to me that you were standing behind the player when he was making a stroke but from where I was watching I cannot be sure. I suppose you were NOT standing there as you DO know that it is not allowed, right?"

 

That stops standing there every time.

[nsxguy]

19 hours ago, antip said:

Your para is fine, from the current book, it is the original paragraph from the OP that is from the 2019 book and the rule has changed significantly. 

 

But you quoted ME and commented on "the last para". How should I know you meant the original post ? 🙃

[nsxguy]

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

It seems to me that you have not learned anything of the lessons served. IMO the issue has been cleared quite well by some of the posters and this has NOT been a breach.

 

 

I see no explanation of why this is not a breach.

 

I see posts about the angle and possibly not being able to judge whether or not the caddie was in the "restricted area".

 

I posted a pic where a virtually straight line goes from the pin through Rory's ball and almost directly TO the caddie. To me, that angle is certainly close enough to determine whether or not the caddie's in the restricted area and with that one shot he almost certainly is.

 

What I DON'T see in this thread is ANY explanation of why this was not a penalty.

 

BUT, via some googling (sorry about that 🙃), I found this from sun.com "That’s because caddie Diamond only appeared to be in the restricted area to see if McIlroy needed his club cleaning."

 

The only problem with this "reporting" is that is says "appeared". It doesn't say anybody actually asked why the caddie went there.

 

Golf Digest explains the Rule correctly but finishes their thought with "Given Diamond had to check if McIlroy needed the club to be cleaned after the third shot or simply wanted to check the new lie, and that Diamond immediately retreats when McIlroy begins taking a stance, no penalty was incurred"

 

I would simply note that GD did NOT say that either player or caddie was actually asked about it.

 

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Tell me, you got the needed responses 18 hours ago and only now you are referring to them while you made two posts 6 hours ago obviously not having read them (or not having understood them...).

 

You might want to go easy on determining what the time stamps on these posts actually mean. I mean, you have NO IDEA what the OP was doing during those hours.

 

Not everybody spends their every waking moment on this board, and even if they did, they're likely not refreshing this one page time-and-time again just to see what's going on with it.

 

And you my friend have been guilty of exactly what you chastised the op about, and something pretty much everyone on this board has done at one time or another; asking/answering/replying when the answer to a question was since the guy last posted. I phrased that poorly but I'm too lazy to go back and re-explain - you know what I'm referring to.

[Colin L]

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

I see no explanation of why this is not a breach.......

I'm not getting involved in a pointless spat about who said what and when.

 

But in  amongst all of that, you do draw attention to the nub of the matter.  If the caddie was in fact standing behind his player on an extension of the line of play after he had begun to take his stance, the key question is what his purpose was in doing so.  A reason has been suggested - to check the lie or whether his club needed cleaning - but without knowing what the  player or caddie has said, that  is no more than a suggestion dressed up in the magazine as a fact.

 

 In general, and this is addressed to all of us,   I'd suggest  the matter could be left  like this:

1.  For there to be a breach, the caddie must be deliberately on an extension of the  line of play behind the ball after the player has begun to take his stance.  In this instance, it is just not safe to conclude from a video that he was on or close to that line.

2. If he was standing on that line, there is only a breach if he was there for one purpose, to help with player with his aim.  In this instance, we don't know for sure but there are several other  possibilities.  It is clearly a situation in which the caddie has to be asked what his purpose was and without knowing his answer, the armchair referee shouldn't assert a definitive "ruling".

3. There are many interesting rules incidents which we could  look at  without feeling the need to make a judgment for or against a player.  So many threads seem to begin like this one  by someone piling in to condemn a player (certain players more than others but let's not go there) for some supposedly egregious breach. It's better just to explore and discuss.

 

Now I'm off to the finals of our area matchplay championship.  I think it's going to be wet and as I'm assigned to a match, it's a walking job. Oh the joys.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Colin L

[Colin L]

Well, that was a surprise:  we got round dry if a little windblown.  This year's championship was being played at the home of The Bruntsfield Links Golfing Society, founded in 1761, some 15 years before you guys declared your independence.   The course is no longer on Bruntsfield Links which are in the centre of Edinburgh (although there is a pitch and putt course still there) but out on the North side of the city with lovely views over the River Forth to Fife.  Not a bad office for the morning.

 

And neither of the players in my match had a caddie and so no worries about where they were standing 😃   

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Colin L

[Mr. Bean]

Colin, did you get to help the players or were you just watching them play?

[Colin L]

Nothing to do - not even to adjudicate who was away.  Excellent golf to watch, though.