Issues/ Failures with 3M DP8410NS

[NerdyGolfer]

I also want to clarify to anyone else thinking of using this epoxy…

 

Ive yet to have an actual failure other than originally described. It appears the adapters I was using might not be compatible with the epoxy. BUT I’ve never had a club failure and I’ve been using this exclusively for quite some time. 
 

lessons learned:

1.) just as stated above, make sure the material is coming out all at the same time. I use a small paper towel to get the material started, once it starts coming out together, I’m good to go

2.) mix on a flat surface. Same as stated above, I use the Mitchell mixing sheets, game changer…

3.) this stuff is gummy and I usually touch up the edges with IPA (I use IPA over acetone) about 30 minutes after setting up to ensure all excess is gone before it cures. 
4.) I’m turning ferrules in give or take an hour when it’s warm in my space (right now it’s between 60-70*, but when it’s warmer this stuff cures VERY fast!

5.) please don’t add shafting beads. I used to do that (foolish old habits), but not only does it weaken the structural integrity of the epoxy, it tends to “gum up” faster and will be more difficult to apply and ensure there’s enough run to fill in all the gaps.

 

I ended up moving to DP420 for my adapters and it’s been working like a champ (no failures yet 🫣). But I don’t like that stuff for my builds as I trust DP8410NS will get the job done (and at half the price!). If I’m building for a very strong swinger and have “less than ideal” hosel depths (very rarely happens) I’ll use the DP420. But this stuff is bulletproof and pulls on graphite are so awesome.

[Nessism]

2 hours ago, NerdyGolfer said:

I also want to clarify to anyone else thinking of using this epoxy…

 

Ive yet to have an actual failure other than originally described. It appears the adapters I was using might not be compatible with the epoxy. BUT I’ve never had a club failure and I’ve been using this exclusively for quite some time. 
 

lessons learned:

1.) just as stated above, make sure the material is coming out all at the same time. I use a small paper towel to get the material started, once it starts coming out together, I’m good to go

2.) mix on a flat surface. Same as stated above, I use the Mitchell mixing sheets, game changer…

3.) this stuff is gummy and I usually touch up the edges with IPA (I use IPA over acetone) about 30 minutes after setting up to ensure all excess is gone before it cures. 
4.) I’m turning ferrules in give or take an hour when it’s warm in my space (right now it’s between 60-70*, but when it’s warmer this stuff cures VERY fast!

5.) please don’t add shafting beads. I used to do that (foolish old habits), but not only does it weaken the structural integrity of the epoxy, it tends to “gum up” faster and will be more difficult to apply and ensure there’s enough run to fill in all the gaps.

 

I ended up moving to DP420 for my adapters and it’s been working like a champ (no failures yet 🫣). But I don’t like that stuff for my builds as I trust DP8410NS will get the job done (and at half the price!). If I’m building for a very strong swinger and have “less than ideal” hosel depths (very rarely happens) I’ll use the DP420. But this stuff is bulletproof and pulls on graphite are so awesome.

DP8410NS already had beads in it.  Please don't add more.  

[Arlin964]

Here is my experience with the DP8410NS. 
 

I am a club building newbie. I did my very first iron head removal and reshaft about 6 months ago. 
 

I did Ping i230 heads on taper tip Project X steel shafts. Reshafting with ping heads are notoriously challenging to do right because of the amount of volume inside the hosel. I did NOT use brass shims, but I did use the appropriate collared ferrules from Golfworks to center the shaft inside the hosel. 
 

I tested one club at first before doing all of them. All of them have held up to normal use, even hitting from the occasional mat. 
 

Considering I’m a newbie who tried ping irons as his first reshaft - to have zero failures is an incredible accomplishment. It is all due to the forgiveness of that adhesive, and to the instructions that @Nessism has provided in multiple threads here. I even got that 10:1 plunger from him.
 

I’ve used it on irons and steel shafts, Ping, Titleist, and All-Fit adapters on graphite shafts, and even some Ping hybrid/icrossover adapters on steel shafts. Not a single failure yet. My point is not to diminish the experience of the OP, considering the All-Fit iron adapters are no doubt a different animal. Rather, just to sing the praises of DP8410NS. 
 

As long as you properly prepare hosels and shafts (that means different things for each hosel/shaft combination), I think this stuff is very forgiving.  My only criticism is that it is pretty strong on the nose and should be used in a well ventilated area. I also wish the working life was a little longer, but that’s the other side of the coin that means it cures quickly like a champ.  I imagine other actual epoxies are also easier to wipe away the excess, but pros and cons to everything. 

[ForTourUseOnly]

I haven't used the DP8410NS but I have used the DP810 and DP810NS, I used to work for a major club fitter and the NS product was great for irons like Ping, taylormade, callaway and PXG with wider hosels but on ones like the allfit adapters that could be very tight its to thick to stay on each part of the shaft as you slide the adapter on, you can actually almost remove all of it if there is not enough space so this could have been an issue. Best glue I have used and the one that most OEM's use is the DP810 regular version. and use the correct ferrule and shim or collar if needed. if its a loose fit some quick center or glass beads helps.

[NerdyGolfer]

36 minutes ago, ForTourUseOnly said:

I haven't used the DP8410NS but I have used the DP810 and DP810NS, I used to work for a major club fitter and the NS product was great for irons like Ping, taylormade, callaway and PXG with wider hosels but on ones like the allfit adapters that could be very tight its to thick to stay on each part of the shaft as you slide the adapter on, you can actually almost remove all of it if there is not enough space so this could have been an issue. Best glue I have used and the one that most OEM's use is the DP810 regular version. and use the correct ferrule and shim or collar if needed. if its a loose fit some quick center or glass beads helps.

This is definitely interesting as that was my observation but I didn’t think of it being an issue. For the hosel side of things I’d say 100% and that’s where it was failing most of the time. I did have a few of the shaft adapters just go completely flying down range 😂 little heart wrenching to see something pop off that cleanly! 
 

I’ve since moved to a generic DP420 (from Infinity Bond) and it’s held up like a champ! It is an NS version but is able to go super thin. I also tapped hosel walls of the heads I’m using (to add some extra bite and a place for excess epoxy to move) and so far, so good!

[Arlin964]

@ForTourUseOnly where do you get your DP810?  Looks like both amazon and ebay are hit or miss, with a 48ml pack being relatively expensive at $50+

[ForTourUseOnly]

an adhesive supplier

[HillbillyHoma]

Do you guys like this better than the Golf Works VB1001? Also, do you have a link where you buy this stuff from? Having a hard time finding it.

[NerdyGolfer]

3 minutes ago, HillbillyHoma said:

Do you guys like this better than the Golf Works VB1001? Also, do you have a link where you buy this stuff from? Having a hard time finding it.

Amazon is the best place when it’s priced right. Usually you can get it for around $18/ cartridge.
 

gluegun.com if you are looking for a case of it (best prices)

https://www.gluegun.com/products/3m-dp8410ns-structural-acrylic-adhesive?variant=395523985

 

but RS Hughes sells it as well.

 

https://www.rshughes.com/p/3M-Scotch-Weld-DP8410NS-Green-Multi-Part-Duo-Pak-Acrylic-Adhesive-45-Ml-Cartridge-70994/051115_70994/

 

I don’t have experience with VB1001

[NerdyGolfer]

On 1/18/2024 at 1:29 PM, Arlin964 said:

@ForTourUseOnly where do you get your DP810?  Looks like both amazon and ebay are hit or miss, with a 48ml pack being relatively expensive at $50+

I just posted some links, RS Hughes is good for singles (but you still pay for shipping and that hurts). But Amazon is the best place to watch for future purchases. The price fluctuates a ton

 

i would NOT advise buying on eBay for fear of fake products. And make sure the products on Amazon are shipped and sold by Amazon

Edited January 25, 2024 by NerdyGolfer

[HillbillyHoma]

6 minutes ago, NerdyGolfer said:

I just posted some links, RS Hughes is good for singles (but you still pay for shipping and that hurts). But Amazon is the best place to watch for future purchases. The price fluctuates a ton

 

i would NOT advise buying on eBay for fear of fake products. And make sure the products on Amazon are shipped and sold by Amazon

I see what you mean. That shipping is brutal. $15 for a $17 item. But it looks like it's $30 on Amazon so pretty much the same. 

Edited January 25, 2024 by HillbillyHoma

[NerdyGolfer]

1 minute ago, HillbillyHoma said:

I see what you mean. That shipping is brutal. $15 for a $17 item.

Yeah unless you can get it on Amazon for about $18-$20, it’s probably not worth it for personal use. 

[third-times-a-charm]

Well my giant-a** 490mL cartridge is almost gone.

 

Some said it could be done. But I did it....and I think this means I am way too big of a club ho and I need help. In my defense, probably 1/4-3/8 of it or more was waste that wasnt used since the 10:1 gun for a 490mL cartridge is so huge a lot comes out with one mixable squeeze.

[NerdyGolfer]

8 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Well my giant-a** 490mL cartridge is almost gone.

 

Some said it could be done. But I did it....and I think this means I am way too big of a club ho and I need help. In my defense, probably 1/4-3/8 of it or more was waste that wasnt used since the 10:1 gun for a 490mL cartridge is so huge a lot comes out with one mixable squeeze.

I almost quoted you because of your big a** cartridge 😂

 

you get epoxy, you get epoxy, you aaaalllll get epoxy!!!!

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, NerdyGolfer said:

I almost quoted you because of your big a** cartridge 😂

 

you get epoxy, you get epoxy, you aaaalllll get epoxy!!!!

[Nessism]

Cleaning up the garage and found two spare 10:1 3M glue gun plungers.  These plungers are needed for use with DP8410, and similar 10:1 products.

 

Free for the cost of shipping.  First come, first served.

 

Only proviso: when messaging me, use your real name.  

 

Shipping cost in the CONTUS should be about $6 or so.  

[roxald]

This is an interesting topic as it spoke to the failure of the DP8410 NS and I am on the other side of the spectrum.

i assembled a set of J15cbs with it and steel shafts. Played them for a couple rounds and then decided to swap out for graphite shafts.

i could not pull the steel shafts out of the Bridgestone heads.

no amount of heat would work.

I ended up cutting the steel shafts off at the hosels-lotsa heat and had to drill out the shaft tips.

 

No more of this stuff for me.

its crazy strong.

 

Rox

[NerdyGolfer]

10 hours ago, roxald said:

This is an interesting topic as it spoke to the failure of the DP8410 NS and I am on the other side of the spectrum.

i assembled a set of J15cbs with it and steel shafts. Played them for a couple rounds and then decided to swap out for graphite shafts.

i could not pull the steel shafts out of the Bridgestone heads.

no amount of heat would work.

I ended up cutting the steel shafts off at the hosels-lotsa heat and had to drill out the shaft tips.

 

No more of this stuff for me.

its crazy strong.

 

Rox

What were you using for heat?

 

If you’ve never pulled JB weld, just go do that for fun!…no clue why people use that as it’s some of the worst smelling and hardest stuff to pull 😂

[NRJyzr]

Over the last couple days, I've been pulling some shafts I'd assembled with 8410NS and had little problem.  For whatever that's worth.

 

Added detail, I'm using a butane micro torch.

 

[Yieeman]

So I have continued trying 8410 a couple more times. I tend to use a plastic epoxy mixing cup for my projects and the 8410 left in the cup never seems to get truly hard - it just gets super gummy. Is that normal? I did a test of epoxying a graphite shaft scrap and steel shaft scrap together (both prepped) together and they won't budge. But because if the gummy left overs I never truly trust the build.

[NerdyGolfer]

10 minutes ago, Yieeman said:

So I have continued trying 8410 a couple more times. I tend to use a plastic epoxy mixing cup for my projects and the 8410 left in the cup never seems to get truly hard - it just gets super gummy. Is that normal? I did a test of epoxying a graphite shaft scrap and steel shaft scrap together (both prepped) together and they won't budge. But because if the gummy left overs I never truly trust the build.

Sounds like it wasn’t mixed right. 10:1’s are pretty finicky as much as others don’t want to admit. (Google and other docs will agree here)

I had two major failures where full prep was done (sanding, wire brush, full mixing on a flat surface, etc) and the epoxy failed. I’ve built thousands of clubs and never had this many issues with an epoxy. Switched back to DP810NS and won’t be looking back.

 

the original failures were on fitting adapters made of titanium that subsequently went away when I used an off brand DP420

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, Yieeman said:

So I have continued trying 8410 a couple more times. I tend to use a plastic epoxy mixing cup for my projects and the 8410 left in the cup never seems to get truly hard - it just gets super gummy. Is that normal? I did a test of epoxying a graphite shaft scrap and steel shaft scrap together (both prepped) together and they won't budge. But because if the gummy left overs I never truly trust the build.

 

The leftover material may feel slightly tacky on the surface, but it shouldn't be soft.  

 

Please forgive for repeating myself, but the following is my recommendation...

 

If your build includes pulling some heads, use a torch to heat, and as soon as the head releases, use a small screwdriver or pick tool, and break up any old adhesive in the hosel while it's hot.  Knock out as much as you can.  Same for removing adhesive from the shaft.

 

Next, for the hosel, use a wire brush on a rotary tool.  This should remove most remaining adhesive.  

 

Now, remove the brush and install a sanding sleeve mandrel in your rotary tool.  And install a fresh sanding sleeve.  Work the sleeve up and down in the hosel, applying a nice fresh sanded surface to the metal.  For the shaft, use a strip of 100 grit sandpaper, and do likewise.

 

Clean hosel and shaft with acetone or MEK.  Allow to dry.

 

Before bonding, I tear up a paper towel into small pieces to be used for clean up.

 

If using a glue cartridge, pull the trigger while watching the end of the cartridge.  Make sure both parts of the adhesive are right at the end of the tube.  Then dispense about two trigger fulls on a flat mixing surface.

 

For the mixing surface, I use wide 2" masking tape.  Two pieces, about 4" long, laid on the workbench, overlapping, side by side.  After the adhesive gets firm, rip off the tape and start over fresh.

 

The 8410 hardner is blue, so watch that, and mix like crazy, to assure complete mixing.

 

WARNING: this stuff drys FAST, you only have a few minutes to glue up the clubs.  In my experience, three clubs is max before the material gets all stiff.  Stiff adhesive will not flow and bond well.  When in doubt, ditch the old stuff and start fresh.

 

Coat both the hosel ID and the shaft.  

 

Insert the shaft, clean off the excess adhesive, quickly, align the shaft, and set the club aside, and move to the next.

 

Don't touch the clubs while the adhesive is kicking off and getting firm.

 

After one hour, if you are in a hurry, warm up the clubs by placing them in the hot sun, the dashboard of your car, or make a hot box using your heat gun set on LOW to warm the clubs.

 

120F for 90 minutes, or 140F for 60 minutes, and the clubs will be fully dry and ready for play.

 

Again, sorry for repeating myself, but it seems that many people don't search out info, and this my help someone.

 

Good luck

 

 

[roxald]

5 hours ago, NerdyGolfer said:

What were you using for heat?

 

If you’ve never pulled JB weld, just go do that for fun!…no clue why people use that as it’s some of the worst smelling and hardest stuff to pull 😂

Using a propane torch with a 3/4” flame width.

Yeah the JB is a B$tch! But this stuff is more difficult?!?!

I’m mixing for a minute or more before apply. Is that too long?

 

Might need to be mindful of the hardener releasing out of the gum at the same time?

if the blue does not come out of the nozzle at the same time as the opaque stuff, would they be enuff to cause a higher strength?

I’m baffled,

Rox

 

[roxald]

3 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

The leftover material may feel slightly tacky on the surface, but it shouldn't be soft.  

 

Please forgive for repeating myself, but the following is my recommendation...

 

If your build includes pulling some heads, use a torch to heat, and as soon as the head releases, use a small screwdriver or pick tool, and break up any old adhesive in the hosel while it's hot.  Knock out as much as you can.  Same for removing adhesive from the shaft.

 

Next, for the hosel, use a wire brush on a rotary tool.  This should remove most remaining adhesive.  

 

Now, remove the brush and install a sanding sleeve mandrel in your rotary tool.  And install a fresh sanding sleeve.  Work the sleeve up and down in the hosel, applying a nice fresh sanded surface to the metal.  For the shaft, use a strip of 100 grit sandpaper, and do likewise.

 

Clean hosel and shaft with acetone or MEK.  Allow to dry.

 

Before bonding, I tear up a paper towel into small pieces to be used for clean up.

 

If using a glue cartridge, pull the trigger while watching the end of the cartridge.  Make sure both parts of the adhesive are right at the end of the tube.  Then dispense about two trigger fulls on a flat mixing surface.

 

For the mixing surface, I use wide 2" masking tape.  Two pieces, about 4" long, laid on the workbench, overlapping, side by side.  After the adhesive gets firm, rip off the tape and start over fresh.

 

The 8410 hardner is blue, so watch that, and mix like crazy, to assure complete mixing.

 

WARNING: this stuff drys FAST, you only have a few minutes to glue up the clubs.  In my experience, three clubs is max before the material gets all stiff.  Stiff adhesive will not flow and bond well.  When in doubt, ditch the old stuff and start fresh.

 

Coat both the hosel ID and the shaft.  

 

Insert the shaft, clean off the excess adhesive, quickly, align the shaft, and set the club aside, and move to the next.

 

Don't touch the clubs while the adhesive is kicking off and getting firm.

 

After one hour, if you are in a hurry, warm up the clubs by placing them in the hot sun, the dashboard of your car, or make a hot box using your heat gun set on LOW to warm the clubs.

 

120F for 90 minutes, or 140F for 60 minutes, and the clubs will be fully dry and ready for play.

 

Again, sorry for repeating myself, but it seems that many people don't search out info, and this my help someone.

 

Good luck

 

 

Thx Nessie!

imma pay closer attention to this ….

“If using a glue cartridge, pull the trigger while watching the end of the cartridge.  Make sure both parts of the adhesive are right at the end of the tube.  Then dispense about two trigger fulls on a flat mixingsurface.”

 

Rox

[NerdyGolfer]

8 minutes ago, roxald said:

Using a propane torch with a 3/4” flame width.

Yeah the JB is a B$tch! But this stuff is more difficult?!?!

I’m mixing for a minute or more before apply. Is that too long?

 

Might need to be mindful of the hardener releasing out of the gum at the same time?

if the blue does not come out of the nozzle at the same time as the opaque stuff, would they be enuff to cause a higher strength?

I’m baffled,

Rox

 

No this shouldn’t be anywhere near as difficult as JB weld. But yes make sure you do a small trigger pull and get both materials to come out together, wipe, then dispense on a flat surface (preferably). Mixing time is really just dependent on when you get a uniform color, that’s all I look for

[Phabs]

I’ve never had an issue pulling 8410.  Just pulled all three of my sets apart for reshafting / reswingweighting and no issues at all..