Golf Digest 100 Greatest Public Courses 2023

[sabram]

11 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Decided to skip Broadmoor East. Didn't think it was worth $750 with the required resort stay. That would have been with the cheapest room I could find on a Wednesday night. The round could easily reach $1000 with a weekend stay. 

The East Course at the Broadmoor is very good and the Broadmoor itself is a great facility. I used to go there with my wife's family who are from Denver. However, at that price, I'd also pass it by.

[Argonne69]

Added a handful of courses since my last post back in September. Rams Hill (91), Wine Valley (97), Gamble Sands (30), and Wilderness Club (44). All worthy of being on the list. Currently sitting at 82 courses played. 

 

I was in San Martin, CA in early April, but took a pass on Cordevalle. Wasn't going to drop $700 for a hotel room just to play the course. 

 

I was in Vegas in mid-April, but took a pass on Shadow Creek and Wynn. Would have ponied up the cash to play Shadow Creek, but they aerated the greens the week I was there. Unlike Pebble Beach, they don't discount the rounds when the course is less than perfect. Wasn't going to pay $1250 plus a room at the MGM Grand to play on punched greens. 

 

Wynn was over $700, which is more than Pebble Beach. Anyone going to pay that for the #66 course on the list? 

 

Hoping to play Sheep Ranch, Pronghorn Resort (Nicklaus Course), Crosswater, Tetherow, Edgewood Tahoe, and Kapalua (Plantation) in the next four months. 

 

I really should add Manele and Makai to my list. If I'm going to fly to Maui, I should hop over to Kauai and Lanai. 

 

I'm thinking about heading east next spring. Might be able to play a few there. Of course by that point the 2025 list will be out, and I'll have to rework the plan. Lol. 

 

[Seaturtle]

Pinehurst no. 8 counts for something right? Didn't think i'd have one on here. Have the opportunity to play Harbour Town and Sea Island this fall. Pretty excited.

[zer0]

Here's the 12 I've played with a mini-review.

 

1.  Pebble Beach:  I was 12 and only thing I remember is my dad lecturing me beforehand to be on my best behavior because the course cost $100 to play.  Damn I miss 1982 prices lol.

 

10.  Erin Hills:  Played it a few times, very nice course but greens are slower than you would expect.  Also very long walk.

 

17.  Sand Valley:   Cool course and great facility.  But the par 3 course is really the star of the show

 

18.  Black Wolf Run:  Glad they ranked this one higher than all the other Kohler courses, I agree.

 

19.  French Lick Pete Dye:  played it a few times, helluva course.  But typical Pete Dye, there are parts of it that are in there just to look cool on a drone shot.

 

27.  Harbor Town;  Played it a couple times, but I was very young and don't remember it.

 

52.  Sentry World:  Played it a couple times, very nice course and reasonable price for this list, but definitely a questionable placing this high.

 

56:  Whistling Straits:  played it either 2 or 3x.  Hate it, think its the most overrated course I've ever played.  Poor condition and repetitive layout.  If you took away the lake it would be a $150 course.  Honestly, the Irish course is better but doesn't have the lake view.

 

62: Lawsonia Links:  Was a member for a few glorious years.   Pound for pound when you factor in value, this is easily the greatest course in the USA.  Even without factoring in price, this course has the best green complexes in the entire country.

 

65:  Cog Hill:  Meh

 

83:  Quintero:  Played it last year and loved it even though it kicked my a**.  Well worth the drive out of Scottsdale.

 

88: Bull and Pinehurst Farm:  Played it twice.  Nice course, but very surprised to see it on this list.  

[zer0]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:18 PM, mci711 said:

I have a hot take. Sand Valley course is the best course at either property. 🤷‍♂️

 

Hotter take:  The par 3 course is the best course at either property 🕵️‍♀️

[4putz]

I've knocked off a quarter of this list...

#6 - Pinehurst #2

#14 - Arcadia Bluffs - Bluffs Course

#17 - Sand Valley

#19 - Dye Course at French Lick

#26 - Mammoth Dunes

#27 - Harbour Town

#28 - Pinehurst #4

#29 - Streamsong Black

#33 - Ozarks National

#35 - Torrey Pines South

#43 - Quarry Course at Giant's Ridge

#45 - Tobacco Road

#59 - Greywalls at Marquette

#62 - Lawsonia Links

#63 - Pine Needles

#65 - Cog's Hill Dubsdread

#67 - Wilderness at Fortune Bay

#68 - Fazio Course at Red Sky Ranch

#70 - Mossy Oak

#71 - Dunes Golf and Beach Club

#75 - Norman Course at Red Sky Ranch

#76 - Pfau Course

#79 - Wild Horse

#88 - Bull at Pinehurst Farms

#92 - Buffalo Ridge

 

[StudentGolfer4]

1 hour ago, 4putz said:

I've knocked off a quarter of this list...

#6 - Pinehurst #2

#14 - Arcadia Bluffs - Bluffs Course

#17 - Sand Valley

#19 - Dye Course at French Lick

#26 - Mammoth Dunes

#27 - Harbour Town

#28 - Pinehurst #4

#29 - Streamsong Black

#33 - Ozarks National

#35 - Torrey Pines South

#43 - Quarry Course at Giant's Ridge

#45 - Tobacco Road

#59 - Greywalls at Marquette

#62 - Lawsonia Links

#63 - Pine Needles

#65 - Cog's Hill Dubsdread

#67 - Wilderness at Fortune Bay

#68 - Fazio Course at Red Sky Ranch

#70 - Mossy Oak

#71 - Dunes Golf and Beach Club

#75 - Norman Course at Red Sky Ranch

#76 - Pfau Course

#79 - Wild Horse

#88 - Bull at Pinehurst Farms

#92 - Buffalo Ridge

 

Any thoughts based on the quarter you have played? What stands out as too highly or low? Compared to the others on the list of course. Any that you are dying to get back to?

[vallygolf]

7 hours ago, zer0 said:

Here's the 12 I've played with a mini-review.

 

1.  Pebble Beach:  I was 12 and only thing I remember is my dad lecturing me beforehand to be on my best behavior because the course cost $100 to play.  Damn I miss 1982 prices lol.

 

10.  Erin Hills:  Played it a few times, very nice course but greens are slower than you would expect.  Also very long walk.

 

17.  Sand Valley:   Cool course and great facility.  But the par 3 course is really the star of the show

 

18.  Black Wolf Run:  Glad they ranked this one higher than all the other Kohler courses, I agree.

 

19.  French Lick Pete Dye:  played it a few times, helluva course.  But typical Pete Dye, there are parts of it that are in there just to look cool on a drone shot.

 

27.  Harbor Town;  Played it a couple times, but I was very young and don't remember it.

 

52.  Sentry World:  Played it a couple times, very nice course and reasonable price for this list, but definitely a questionable placing this high.

 

56:  Whistling Straits:  played it either 2 or 3x.  Hate it, think its the most overrated course I've ever played.  Poor condition and repetitive layout.  If you took away the lake it would be a $150 course.  Honestly, the Irish course is better but doesn't have the lake view.

 

62: Lawsonia Links:  Was a member for a few glorious years.   Pound for pound when you factor in value, this is easily the greatest course in the USA.  Even without factoring in price, this course has the best green complexes in the entire country.

 

65:  Cog Hill:  Meh

 

83:  Quintero:  Played it last year and loved it even though it kicked my a**.  Well worth the drive out of Scottsdale.

 

88: Bull and Pinehurst Farm:  Played it twice.  Nice course, but very surprised to see it on this list.  

Not to burst your bubble on this, but the Straits course (Whistling Straits) is #4 on the list.  The Irish is #56.  FWIW I agree with your take (albeit not as forcefully) that the Straits course is very overrated.

[mci711]

3 hours ago, vallygolf said:

Not to burst your bubble on this, but the Straits course (Whistling Straits) is #4 on the list.  The Irish is #56.  FWIW I agree with your take (albeit not as forcefully) that the Straits course is very overrated.

 

I think the Kohler courses as a whole are massively overrated. I hated Black Wolf Run - River. I enjoyed Whistling Straits, but didn't feel like I needed to play it again. I wouldn't turn down a round there, but compared to other top 20 courses it just doesn't really do as much for me. I'd play the Sand Valley courses and Erin Hills over every course at Kohler. 

[zer0]

15 hours ago, vallygolf said:

Not to burst your bubble on this, but the Straits course (Whistling Straits) is #4 on the list.  The Irish is #56.  FWIW I agree with your take (albeit not as forcefully) that the Straits course is very overrated.

 

damn, I didn't notice that.  Well I guess that gives me one more course on the list I played.

 

and lol you totally did burst my bubble.   I was like yea, someone finally agrees with me that Straits is overrated.

[4putz]

On 7/31/2024 at 3:20 PM, StudentGolfer4 said:

Any thoughts based on the quarter you have played? What stands out as too highly or low? Compared to the others on the list of course. Any that you are dying to get back to?

 

Underrated - Wild Horse, Mossy Oak, Greywalls, Tobacco Road, Pinehurst #4

Overrated - Arcadia Bluffs, Dye at French Lick, Streamsong Black, Ozarks National... Torrey South and Cog's Hill aren't top 100 courses IMO, 

 

I'd love to get back to Pinehurst, Sand Valley, Lawsonia, and northern Minnesota for Giant's Ridge and the Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

 

 

[asommers1441]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:39 PM, asommers1441 said:

I have 8 in the top 20 and 10 overall. 

Just added Red Sky Fazio Course to my list of courses played.

 

My List (Not in Order)

Bandon Dunes - Played Trails, Pacific, Bandon and Sheep Ranch

Pinehurst #2

Red Sky Fazio

Acadia Bluffs Bluffs Course

Erin Hills

Chambers Bay 

Gamble Sands

 

[sabram]

I prefer the Golf Magazine list to the Golf Digest list. I've played 45 on the current GD list (and will be at 48 in a few weeks when I play Sand Valley, Mammoth Dunes and Lawsonia Links.) 

 

These are the ones I've played (plus the ones at SV and Lawsonia) in the order they appear on the GD list:

 

Pacific Dunes
Kiawah Island Ocean
Whisting Starits Straits
Shadow Creek
Pinehurst #2
Bethpage Black
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Old Macdonald
Arcadia Bluffs - Bluffs
Pasatiempo
Sand Valley
Blackwolf Run River
Streamsong Red
Streamsong Blue
Mammoth Dunes
Pinehurst #4
Streamsong Black
Forest Dunes
Greenbrier Old White
Torrey Pines South
Broadmoor East
Yale
Tobacco Road
Wolf Creek
Spanish Bay
Fallen Oak
Paako Ridge
Whistling Starits Irish
The Loop Black
Golden Horseshoe
Cascata
Lawsonia - Links
Pine Needles
Cog Hill #4
The Loop Red
Dunes Golf & Beach
Blackwolf Run Meadows Valley
Reynolds Great Waters
Wild Horse
Doral Blue Monster
Quintero
Mid Pines
Buffalo Ridge
Turning Stone Atunyote
Black Mesa
Sand Hollow
Belvedere
 

 

These are the ones that I like so much that I want to play them again (in order of my personal preference) Several I've already played several times... Yale, BP Black, Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Pasatiempo, the three at Streamsong and the Dunes. The ones not listed below, I don't have a strong desire to replay. 

 

Pinehurst #2
Yale
Bethpage Black
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes
Tobacco Road
Arcadia Bluffs - Bluffs
Bandon Trails
Mid Pines
Pine Needles
Pasatiempo
Golden Horseshoe - Gold
Greenbrier Old White
Sand Hollow
Streamsong Blue
Streamsong Black
Streamsong Red
The Loop Black
The Loop Red
Black Mesa

The Broadmoor East

Wild Horse
Dunes Golf & Beach
Buffalo Ridge
Belvedere

 

The five on the GD list that I haven't played that I most want to visit are:

Kapalua Plantation

Taconic

Greywalls at Marquette

Arcadia South

Quarry at Giants Ridge

 

 

 

 

[ode1]

19 hours ago, 4putz said:

I'd love to get back to Pinehurst, Sand Valley, Lawsonia, and northern Minnesota for Giant's Ridge and the Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

I hope to get to Pinehurst someday.....the others are all super courses!

[ode1]

4 hours ago, sabram said:

Belvedere

I may get there this fall by way of the UP and Macinac bridge.

 

4 hours ago, sabram said:

Greywalls at Marquette

😍....truly a magnificent experience.  I hope you get there soon!

[Golferpaul]

On 7/30/2024 at 6:17 PM, Argonne69 said:

Hoping to play Sheep Ranch, Pronghorn Resort (Nicklaus Course), Crosswater, Tetherow, Edgewood Tahoe, and Kapalua (Plantation) in the next four months. 

 

I've played all six of those courses.  Here is how I rank them;

 

1. Pronghorn Nicklaus

2. Edgewood Tahoe

3. Crosswater

4. Sheep Ranch

5. Plantation

6. Tetherow

[SilverBullets]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:03 PM, mci711 said:

 

I think the Kohler courses as a whole are massively overrated. I hated Black Wolf Run - River. I enjoyed Whistling Straits, but didn't feel like I needed to play it again. I wouldn't turn down a round there, but compared to other top 20 courses it just doesn't really do as much for me. I'd play the Sand Valley courses and Erin Hills over every course at Kohler. 

I 100% agree.  I walked off BWR - River and was like 'yeah it's fine.'  I didn't care for the layout but I saw aspects of it which make it nice.  Not at all top 100 in my book.  Frankly, it's a pretty unmemorable and unremarkable layout.

 

Straits I hated.  Contrived, out of place, over-engineered.  

 

I enjoyed the Irish course the most but mainly because it's more fun.  It's not a better layout.  

 

Erin Hills blew all 3 courses away in my opinion. 

[Golferpaul]

On 8/5/2024 at 11:06 AM, SilverBullets said:

I 100% agree.  I walked off BWR - River and was like 'yeah it's fine.'  I didn't care for the layout but I saw aspects of it which make it nice.  Not at all top 100 in my book.  Frankly, it's a pretty unmemorable and unremarkable layout.

 

Straits I hated.  Contrived, out of place, over-engineered.  

 

I enjoyed the Irish course the most but mainly because it's more fun.  It's not a better layout.  

 

Erin Hills blew all 3 courses away in my opinion. 

To each his own.  My reaction was almost the opposite of yours. 

 

Our group ranked the courses on our trip like this:

 

1.  Whistling Straits

2. Erin Hills

3. Sand Valley

4. Blackwolf run - River

5 The Bull

6. Irish

7: mammoth Dunes

 

All but two of our golfers rated Whistling Straits #1 and all but one rated Erin Hills #2. 

All of our golfers rated Mammoth Dunes last or next to last.

 

[SilverBullets]

18 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

To each his own.  My reaction was almost the opposite of yours. 

 

Our group ranked the courses on our trip like this:

 

1.  Whistling Straits

2. Erin Hills

3. Sand Valley

4. Blackwolf run - River

5 The Bull

6. Irish

7: mammoth Dunes

 

All but two of our golfers rated Whistling Straits #1 and all but one rated Erin Hills #2. 

All of our golfers rated Mammoth Dunes last or next to last.

 

I havent played the Sand Valley courses, only the Kohler courses and Erin Hills.

 

It's worth me saying that I also don't care for many Pete Dye tracks.  Out of the big-name architects, he's pretty low on the list for me.  I've never appreciated his approach and some of his design principles.  I really like The Ocean Course.  There are parts of Harbour Town I love but other parts that I don't care for... the rest of the Pete Dye courses I've played I walk away pretty disappointed and not understanding the allure lol.  So I'm probably biased.  

 

Give me a great Morrish/Weiskopf or Coore/Crenshaw design.  I'll take those all day long over anything Dye has designed. 

[Golferpaul]

On 8/7/2024 at 9:39 AM, SilverBullets said:

I havent played the Sand Valley courses, only the Kohler courses and Erin Hills.

 

It's worth me saying that I also don't care for many Pete Dye tracks.  Out of the big-name architects, he's pretty low on the list for me.  I've never appreciated his approach and some of his design principles.  I really like The Ocean Course.  There are parts of Harbour Town I love but other parts that I don't care for... the rest of the Pete Dye courses I've played I walk away pretty disappointed and not understanding the allure lol.  So I'm probably biased.  

 

Give me a great Morrish/Weiskopf or Coore/Crenshaw design.  I'll take those all day long over anything Dye has designed. 

We are all biased.

I've played twenty Dye courses and several of them are spectacular.

 

Here is my list with my favorites bolded:

 

Amelia Island Oak Marsh

Atlanta National

Austin Country Club

Blackwolf Run - River

Casa de Campo - Dye Fore

Casa de Campo - Links

Casa de Campo - Teeth of the Dog

La Quinta - Dunes

La Quinta - Mountain

Mission Hills, Westin

Paiute Wolf

PGA West - Stadium

Promontory - Dye

Stonebridge Ranch - Dye

The Ocean Course

TPC Sawgrass

TPC The Canyons

Whistling Straits - Irish

Whistling Straits - Straits

Wintonbury Hills

[italianstallion]

Even though this thread is based on last year's list, the recent discussion around Dye and Kohler courses makes me want to jump in. First, my list because I think I need to establish street cred for the discussion:

 

1. (1) Pebble Beach

2. (2) Pacific Dunes

3. (3) Kiawah Island Ocean

4. (4) Whistling Straits

5. (6) Pinehurst No. 2

6. (7) Bethpage Black

7. (8) Bandon Dunes

8. (9) TPC Sawgrass

9. (10) Erin Hills

10. (11) Bandon Trails

11. (13) Old Macdonald 

12. (15) Pasatiempo

13. (16) Sheep Ranch

14. (17) Sand Valley

15. (18) Blackwolf Run: River

16. (20) Chambers Bay

17. (21) Streamsong Red

18. (23) Kapalua

19. (24) Streamsong Blue

20. (26) Mammoth Dunes

21. (29) Streamsong Black

22. (35) Torrey Pines South

23. (45) Tobacco Road

24. (62) Lawsonia Links

25. (73) Pine Needles

26. (72) Southern Pines

27. (84) Taconic Golf Club

28. (86) Mid Pines

 

Some quick observations: Pebble is nowhere near the best golf course on this list. My personal #1 of these courses is Bethpage. The Bandon's, Sand Valley's, and Streamsong's of the world are all starting to blend together which for me personally makes them difficult to rank amongst each other and amongst other courses not of that type on the list. If pressed, I would have to say Pacific Dunes has the best full shots, but I do really enjoy the greens complexes on Coore & Crenshaw courses. In general I think these courses provide too much room to play, which while fun, don't make me think I accomplished anything special when I shoot a good round on them.

 

Finally, my opinions on the Kohler courses and all things Pete Dye. My first introduction to the Pete Dye school of thought came at TPC Sawgrass, and that first introduction did not go well. However I knew this guy was a famous golf course architect for a reason, so in the weeks after that round I looked back to understand just where I went wrong that day. What I figured out, and what holds true for even his biggest courses, is that Pete Dye's design philosophy revolves around hitting the spot off the tee that he wants you to hit. This may mean hitting driver, but it could also mean hitting a three wood or a hybrid on a long par 4 where you'd normally never think to reach for such a club. One thing is for certain: these desired landing areas are typically not obvious the first time around because many times you can't see them. Most recently I think back to the 18th at Whistling Straits. A 487 yard par 4 from the tees that I played, on the card it sounds like driver all day every day, and the uphill tee shot seems to confirm that thought. But with the wind at my back, a fairway that ended at 310 yards, and three large trees off the right of the fairway, I knew that the driver my caddie had left me with was not the right club for the job before I even hit the tee shot. Seconds later my ball sailed through the fairway and my approach was blocked out by those trees on the right forcing me to lay up. Had I hit three wood on that same line the only thing I would have had to worry about would've been judging a slightly longer approach shot in to a generously large green complex. But that's Pete Dye, and that's why I have a love/hate relationship with his work. I hate hitting what I think is great drive only to find out that I hit it through the fairway. I hate missing a green by two paces and watching my ball hit a steeply carved ground feature and bound in to jail somewhere. I hate the difficulty of the recovery shots and trying to get up and down. I hate finally finding the green only to have a triple breaking 20 foot putt because there are no straight forward Pete Dye greens. But while I hate all of these things, I love the challenge of trying to overcome them. I love knowing its all a mind game and if I just hit the spots I'm supposed to hit everything will be fine. The day I went back to TPC Sawgrass, used that knowledge, and broke 80 from the Players tees is still among my proudest golf accomplishments. Good rounds feel extra special on his courses.

 

All that is to say, I found Whistling Straits and Blackwolf River to be captivating. I barely looked at the water at Straits because there is just so much to pay attention and commit to from a golf course perspective out there. At Blackwolf while I think the first few holes are a bit clunky from a routing perspective, it all pays off with how much he was able to maximize the amount of shots that a player has to hit along the river in the middle of the round. And I think 16/17/18 create one of his most fun and getable par 5, par 3, par 4 signature finishes that I've played. 

 

I do get it, Pete Dye's design philosophy may not be for everyone. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone, because as much as I enjoy his stuff even I still curse his name multiple times when I play his courses. Whether we want to admit it or not, we as golfers have a tendency to rank the courses we play well on higher than the ones we don't. But even though I played poorly at Kiawah and Whistling Straits, and had one good round at Sawgrass, these courses rank extremely high on my personal 'best of' list. To me that's an indication of a great course...a course you can walk away from after not playing your best and still say "that was an absolutely fantastic golf course, I had an excellent time, and I'd love to play that one again someday."

[TexasTurf]

9 hours ago, italianstallion said:

Even though this thread is based on last year's list, the recent discussion around Dye and Kohler courses makes me want to jump in. First, my list because I think I need to establish street cred for the discussion:

 

1. (1) Pebble Beach

2. (2) Pacific Dunes

3. (3) Kiawah Island Ocean

4. (4) Whistling Straits

5. (6) Pinehurst No. 2

6. (7) Bethpage Black

7. (8) Bandon Dunes

8. (9) TPC Sawgrass

9. (10) Erin Hills

10. (11) Bandon Trails

11. (13) Old Macdonald 

12. (15) Pasatiempo

13. (16) Sheep Ranch

14. (17) Sand Valley

15. (18) Blackwolf Run: River

16. (20) Chambers Bay

17. (21) Streamsong Red

18. (23) Kapalua

19. (24) Streamsong Blue

20. (26) Mammoth Dunes

21. (29) Streamsong Black

22. (35) Torrey Pines South

23. (45) Tobacco Road

24. (62) Lawsonia Links

25. (73) Pine Needles

26. (72) Southern Pines

27. (84) Taconic Golf Club

28. (86) Mid Pines

 

Some quick observations: Pebble is nowhere near the best golf course on this list. My personal #1 of these courses is Bethpage. The Bandon's, Sand Valley's, and Streamsong's of the world are all starting to blend together which for me personally makes them difficult to rank amongst each other and amongst other courses not of that type on the list. If pressed, I would have to say Pacific Dunes has the best full shots, but I do really enjoy the greens complexes on Coore & Crenshaw courses. In general I think these courses provide too much room to play, which while fun, don't make me think I accomplished anything special when I shoot a good round on them.

 

Finally, my opinions on the Kohler courses and all things Pete Dye. My first introduction to the Pete Dye school of thought came at TPC Sawgrass, and that first introduction did not go well. However I knew this guy was a famous golf course architect for a reason, so in the weeks after that round I looked back to understand just where I went wrong that day. What I figured out, and what holds true for even his biggest courses, is that Pete Dye's design philosophy revolves around hitting the spot off the tee that he wants you to hit. This may mean hitting driver, but it could also mean hitting a three wood or a hybrid on a long par 4 where you'd normally never think to reach for such a club. One thing is for certain: these desired landing areas are typically not obvious the first time around because many times you can't see them. Most recently I think back to the 18th at Whistling Straits. A 487 yard par 4 from the tees that I played, on the card it sounds like driver all day every day, and the uphill tee shot seems to confirm that thought. But with the wind at my back, a fairway that ended at 310 yards, and three large trees off the right of the fairway, I knew that the driver my caddie had left me with was not the right club for the job before I even hit the tee shot. Seconds later my ball sailed through the fairway and my approach was blocked out by those trees on the right forcing me to lay up. Had I hit three wood on that same line the only thing I would have had to worry about would've been judging a slightly longer approach shot in to a generously large green complex. But that's Pete Dye, and that's why I have a love/hate relationship with his work. I hate hitting what I think is great drive only to find out that I hit it through the fairway. I hate missing a green by two paces and watching my ball hit a steeply carved ground feature and bound in to jail somewhere. I hate the difficulty of the recovery shots and trying to get up and down. I hate finally finding the green only to have a triple breaking 20 foot putt because there are no straight forward Pete Dye greens. But while I hate all of these things, I love the challenge of trying to overcome them. I love knowing its all a mind game and if I just hit the spots I'm supposed to hit everything will be fine. The day I went back to TPC Sawgrass, used that knowledge, and broke 80 from the Players tees is still among my proudest golf accomplishments. Good rounds feel extra special on his courses.

 

All that is to say, I found Whistling Straits and Blackwolf River to be captivating. I barely looked at the water at Straits because there is just so much to pay attention and commit to from a golf course perspective out there. At Blackwolf while I think the first few holes are a bit clunky from a routing perspective, it all pays off with how much he was able to maximize the amount of shots that a player has to hit along the river in the middle of the round. And I think 16/17/18 create one of his most fun and getable par 5, par 3, par 4 signature finishes that I've played. 

 

I do get it, Pete Dye's design philosophy may not be for everyone. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone, because as much as I enjoy his stuff even I still curse his name multiple times when I play his courses. Whether we want to admit it or not, we as golfers have a tendency to rank the courses we play well on higher than the ones we don't. But even though I played poorly at Kiawah and Whistling Straits, and had one good round at Sawgrass, these courses rank extremely high on my personal 'best of' list. To me that's an indication of a great course...a course you can walk away from after not playing your best and still say "that was an absolutely fantastic golf course, I had an excellent time, and I'd love to play that one again someday."

I despise most coore crenshaw tee to green because it is way too big, but I love their greens. I love dye tee to green but don't like his small boring greens. I guess i like tricky tight tee to green, and big bold greens. So I just described Fazio, which everyone here hates, but there's a reason the top courses in the world consistently pick him to fix them up.

[doglegs]

My list below with some random commentary:

 

Including the Ocean Course as I'll peg it up there in a month (will be my 20th on the list).  Bethpage is probably my favorite track listed here.  Just got back from Arcadia... awesome course... South Course is fantastic as well.  Loved both tracks at Forest Dunes as well.. great contrast of styles and I heard they are building a 3rd track.  Golden Horseshoe Gold is a dark horse track, excellent layout/conditions.   I'm shocked Lawsonia is still on this list and above so many great courses (62??).  I thought the two other courses at Turning Stone were much better than Atunyote.

 

3. (4) Kiawah Island Golf Resort: The Ocean Course
4. (3) Whistling Straits: Straits Course
6. (6) Pinehurst No. 2
7. (8) Bethpage State Park: Black
10. (9) Erin Hills Golf Course
14. (14) Arcadia Bluffs Golf Club: Bluffs Course
18. (16) Blackwolf Run: River
27. (25) Harbour Town Golf Links
32. (33) Forest Dunes Golf Club
45. (49) Tobacco Road Golf Club
53. (52) Arcadia Bluffs G.C. (South)
56. (47) Whistling Straits: Irish Course
58. (59) The Loop Black Course at Forest Dunes
60. (43) Golden Horseshoe Golf Club: Gold Course
62. (68) The Golf Courses of Lawsonia: Links
72. (NEW) Southern Pines Golf Club
74. (74) Blackwolf Run: Meadow Valleys
86. (93) Mid Pines Inn & Golf Club
88. (91) The Bull At Pinehurst Farms
94. (NR) Atunyote
 

[golfortennis]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:06 PM, SilverBullets said:

I 100% agree.  I walked off BWR - River and was like 'yeah it's fine.'  I didn't care for the layout but I saw aspects of it which make it nice.  Not at all top 100 in my book.  Frankly, it's a pretty unmemorable and unremarkable layout.

 

Straits I hated.  Contrived, out of place, over-engineered.  

 

I enjoyed the Irish course the most but mainly because it's more fun.  It's not a better layout.  

 

Erin Hills blew all 3 courses away in my opinion. 

 

How can you say that about BWR?  A course that charges $395 to play can not be described as unremarkable.  It just can't!!  How else can you charge $395?  

 

Now I'm a capitalist, so they can certainly charge whatever they can get, but I can also state my opinion on it.  Did I mention it's $395 to play?  

[italianstallion]

13 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

How can you say that about BWR?  A course that charges $395 to play can not be described as unremarkable.  It just can't!!  How else can you charge $395?  

 

Now I'm a capitalist, so they can certainly charge whatever they can get, but I can also state my opinion on it.  Did I mention it's $395 to play?  

Even though I like the course, BWR is not worth $395. We played it as a replay the day we played Whistling, and the $245 fee was still steep but more palatable. Anywhere else it’s a solid $150-$200 course. 

[Golferpaul]

On 8/10/2024 at 12:22 AM, TexasTurf said:

I despise most coore crenshaw tee to green because it is way too big, but I love their greens. I love dye tee to green but don't like his small boring greens. I guess i like tricky tight tee to green, and big bold greens. So I just described Fazio, which everyone here hates, but there's a reason the top courses in the world consistently pick him to fix them up.

I love Fazio courses.  He is my second favorite designer behind Nicklaus.

 

I've played eleven Coore / Crenshaw courses; several wouldn't make my top 100.  

[SilverBullets]

On 8/9/2024 at 10:22 PM, TexasTurf said:

I despise most coore crenshaw tee to green because it is way too big, but I love their greens. I love dye tee to green but don't like his small boring greens. I guess i like tricky tight tee to green, and big bold greens. So I just described Fazio, which everyone here hates, but there's a reason the top courses in the world consistently pick him to fix them up.

It's funny, im almost the opposite.  I like coore/crenshaw for the simplicity of their designs tee to green.  They move significantly less dirt than others and really use the land to dictate the course.  Dye, on the other hand, didn't care what the land says.  He made the land say whatever he wants with a bulldozer.  No matter how out of place the course felt (which was my overwhelming thought about Straits... the whole thing felt like it didn't belong there and didn't make sense).   

 

I like courses which give ALL players variety.  Course which can simultaneously challenge a short and long hitter.  A low handicap and a high handicap.  Course which can simultaneously reward long and short hitters, high and low shots, etc.  It's something that's really hard to pull off.  Ironically, I think the simplicity of original links style designs play this way in many cases.  Coore/Crenshaw, more than any other modern designer that I've played, really encapsulate this.  

 

Im not a huge fan of gigantic green complexes (unless it's in a links/links style setting).  That's one of my knocks on Jack courses.  He loves himself some big a** greens.  

 

I still love Morrish/Weiskopf courses (both TPC Scottsdale courses, Forest dunes, The Rim, Troon North, Double Eagle, etc.).  They do a wonderful job blending a modern park land course with some bigger features while still providing multiple options to play each hole.  

Edited August 12, 2024 by SilverBullets

[Argonne69]

Checked off Tetherow yesterday. 'Definitely worthy of a spot on the list. Crazy "fun" greens.

 

I'm playing Pronghorn Nicklaus tomorrow. Curious to see how the two courses compare. Was hoping to play Crosswater, but it's now a stay and play course. Not sure if I want to fork over money for a hotel room when I'm already paying for the RV park a few miles away.

 

Forgot to mention Cascata in my previous post, so the count is now 83.

 

Played Chambers Bay for the 2nd time three weeks ago. For me it's a top 10 course. Love the bunkering.

 

I'm booked at Sheep Ranch in two weeks, and I'll also play Pacific Dunes for the 2nd time.

 

[jrg75]

Anyone know which set of holes at Paako ridge is considered the top 100 public? I didn't realize it's a 27 hole facility, guessing the original 18 is what's on the Golf Digest list.

 

Headed to Albuquerque this week and plan to play it, will be #15 for me.

 

Thanks.

Edited September 23, 2024 by jrg75

[jrg75]

Played #55, Paako Ridge near Albuquerque.  Conditions are immaculate and it's a really cool layout.  The ball really flys at that elevation; I played the blue tees at 7200 yds and while I had a lot of 5 and 6 irons, all the par 4 were reachable with an iron for the second shot  I ended up playing the additional 9 holes they have on property but it's not as impressive as the original 18.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2024 by jrg75