Best National Memberships 2023

[monty09]

On 4/17/2024 at 12:41 PM, Dancin said:

The information for Rodeo Dunes is public. $75k founder fee, get your money back in 30 years (if they don't go bankrupt), free preview play until they are open to the public, $5k annual dues when the first course opens for public play. Preferred founder tee time blocks, advanced tee time booking before the public, guests get 50% off public rates and founder only tournaments once they are open to the public. While not announced I'd say there is a strong potential at some point they build a mostly private course like Sand Valley did and offer free initiation if you agree to forego some amount of the return of your founder fee.

If they succeed in creating Ballyneal/Bandon level designs, it's a very good deal even with the 75k downstroke for a public resort but that is the big question. They certainly have the land for it as those Roggen dunes have been looked at longingly by golf architects for over 20 years. The concern was always where do you get enough employees from.

Key question to ask is what restrictions exist on how much they can raise the annual dues. Being 45 minutes from an international airport is going to be a huge advantage over Bandon and Sand Valley and I have no doubt they will do booming business if they have good designs.

 

 

75,000 + lets say 6k dues... thats 13,000 a year for first 10 years....  lets say you live in denver so can get there a ton... call it 50 rounds a season...  $270 a round....   say you live in LA or Dallas... 15 rounds a year is now $866...   the member could end up paying the highest price per round over a generic guest 

 

I think rodeo dunes is hoping to capture the market of golfers flying into denver and in route to BN, Caprock, SH, etc etc 

 

the math for a public resort membership is bananas..  and to think it will be even close to BD is just not smart...   if its 50% of BD dunes call it a success. 

 

I personally think every "dunes" project going forward will be very tough to sell memberships 

[Mullenboy]

17 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

75,000 + lets say 6k dues... thats 13,000 a year for first 10 years....  lets say you live in denver so can get there a ton... call it 50 rounds a season...  $270 a round....   say you live in LA or Dallas... 15 rounds a year is now $866...   the member could end up paying the highest price per round over a generic guest 

 

I think rodeo dunes is hoping to capture the market of golfers flying into denver and in route to BN, Caprock, SH, etc etc 

 

the math for a public resort membership is bananas..  and to think it will be even close to BD is just not smart...   if its 50% of BD dunes call it a success. 

 

I personally think every "dunes" project going forward will be very tough to sell memberships 

A great man told me long ago:  "if you have to think about the cost for a club membership, you shouldn't do it."

 

The math NEVER works.  Not if you do care about money.

 

You pay for fun and convenience.

[monty09]

Just now, Mullenboy said:

A great man told me long ago:  "if you have to think about the cost for a club membership, you shouldn't do it."

 

The math NEVER works.  Not if you do care about money.

 

You pay for fun and convenience.

 

 

I disagree. The math works in several cases but for a public resort I would love to meet a member  to ask why - if you are one, please share the logic in doing this vs a slightly used 911

[Dancin]

28 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

75,000 + lets say 6k dues... thats 13,000 a year for first 10 years....  lets say you live in denver so can get there a ton... call it 50 rounds a season...  $270 a round....   say you live in LA or Dallas... 15 rounds a year is now $866...   the member could end up paying the highest price per round over a generic guest 

 

I think rodeo dunes is hoping to capture the market of golfers flying into denver and in route to BN, Caprock, SH, etc etc 

 

the math for a public resort membership is bananas..  and to think it will be even close to BD is just not smart...   if its 50% of BD dunes call it a success. 

 

I personally think every "dunes" project going forward will be very tough to sell memberships 

It's $5k dues and I'd guess most people that live in Denver doing that membership are playing 36 holes a day when they head out there. While the course has told local members they don't expect to see them out there every weekend or the dues might have to be raised, members should be able to get at least even if not under the rack rates (assuming they do eventually get their founder deposit back)

Edited June 12, 2024 by Dancin

[graveydellic]

6 minutes ago, Mullenboy said:

A great man told me long ago:  "if you have to think about the cost for a club membership, you shouldn't do it."

 

The math NEVER works.  Not if you do care about money.

 

You pay for fun and convenience.

 

I concur.  I hesitated when I joined my club.  My dad told me that it'll never make sense cost wise - you do it for reasons beyond that.  Anyone that joins a decent club and calculating "cost per round" will be disappointed.  

 

As for joining a public resort - to my knowledge it's not really a membership.  It's a one time payment without dues.  You are essentially floating them capital to get the resort up and running and get a few perks + your name on the wall.  It's something you do if you already have 2+ others clubs and are a fan of the Keiser business model. 

[Mullenboy]

11 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

I disagree. The math works in several cases but for a public resort I would love to meet a member  to ask why - if you are one, please share the logic in doing this vs a slightly used 911

I guess it depends on the individual.  The math does work for me at a local 9 hole club.  So "never" is indeed too strong.  How about this:  the more you need to think about money, the less you should do any private club.  Public resorts?  Hell those are one-offs so to speak.  Life's too short to put a price tag on a good time.

 

I am full of truisms.  🙂

[monty09]

9 minutes ago, Mullenboy said:

I guess it depends on the individual.  The math does work for me at a local 9 hole club.  So "never" is indeed too strong.  How about this:  the more you need to think about money, the less you should do any private club.  Public resorts?  Hell those are one-offs so to speak.  Life's too short to put a price tag on a good time.

 

I am full of truisms.  🙂

 

 

agree BUT there is a price tag on a good time... its 75k + dues....   Ill take the 911 over any dunes course.. the texas one is priced a hair less at 65k and I doubt they get many members there either... PGA frisco had to reduce their price as most laughed at them when they rolled out the first "founders" offerings 

[monty09]

21 minutes ago, graveydellic said:

 

I concur.  I hesitated when I joined my club.  My dad told me that it'll never make sense cost wise - you do it for reasons beyond that.  Anyone that joins a decent club and calculating "cost per round" will be disappointed.  

 

As for joining a public resort - to my knowledge it's not really a membership.  It's a one time payment without dues.  You are essentially floating them capital to get the resort up and running and get a few perks + your name on the wall.  It's something you do if you already have 2+ others clubs and are a fan of the Keiser business model. 

I am quite sure you pay dues... i have their deck and the texas one somewhere.. 

[Mullenboy]

26 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

agree BUT there is a price tag on a good time... its 75k + dues....   Ill take the 911 over any dunes course.. the texas one is priced a hair less at 65k and I doubt they get many members there either... PGA frisco had to reduce their price as most laughed at them when they rolled out the first "founders" offerings 

 

The point the man I know who says that makes is... a good time is worth any amount.

 

He's a multi-billionaire though.  🙂

[Mullenboy]

As pertains to Rodeo Dunes... the price seems way too much to me.  Stupidly so.

[monty09]

6 minutes ago, Mullenboy said:

 

The point the man I know who says that makes is... a good time is worth any amount.

 

He's a multi-billionaire though.  🙂

 

 

of course...... love the finance advice from a billionaire lol....   thats funny 

[ND2005]

58 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

agree BUT there is a price tag on a good time... its 75k + dues....   Ill take the 911 over any dunes course.. the texas one is priced a hair less at 65k and I doubt they get many members there either... PGA frisco had to reduce their price as most laughed at them when they rolled out the first "founders" offerings 

 

But it's refundable in 30 years!! 

 

 

 

[monty09]

16 minutes ago, ND2005 said:

 

But it's refundable in 30 years!! 

 

 

 

hahaha

[act0fgod]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:15 AM, monty09 said:

 

 

I disagree. The math works in several cases but for a public resort I would love to meet a member  to ask why - if you are one, please share the logic in doing this vs a slightly used 911

Lots of members at the public resort hosting the US Open today.  I'm one.  What would you think monthly dues are to make the math work?  A round on #2 is something like $595, and #4 is something like $395 (I don't really know the price hotel guests pay but that's what a quick search came back with).

 

On 6/12/2024 at 10:21 AM, graveydellic said:

 

Anyone that joins a decent club and calculating "cost per round" will be disappointed.  

 

 

Also have to disagree with this.  I was a member at NCR in Dayton a number of years ago.  I paid roughly $4k/year (discounted based on my age) and played about 40 rounds a year (my wife also played a handful of afternoon rounds).  It was more than what I would have paid at the local muni or military course nearby but I was very happy with the per round cost.  It also helps that they had a generous program where the initiation fee was waived for active duty military.  It's tough to eat an initiation fee if you know you'll be moving in 2-4 years.

[monty09]

10 hours ago, act0fgod said:

Lots of members at the public resort hosting the US Open today.  I'm one.  What would you think monthly dues are to make the math work?  A round on #2 is something like $595, and #4 is something like $395 (I don't really know the price hotel guests pay but that's what a quick search came back with).

 

 

Also have to disagree with this.  I was a member at NCR in Dayton a number of years ago.  I paid roughly $4k/year (discounted based on my age) and played about 40 rounds a year (my wife also played a handful of afternoon rounds).  It was more than what I would have paid at the local muni or military course nearby but I was very happy with the per round cost.  It also helps that they had a generous program where the initiation fee was waived for active duty military.  It's tough to eat an initiation fee if you know you'll be moving in 2-4 years.

 

Would you pay $75k to join Pinehurst?  10 course and 1 that hosts a major.... doesnt sound terrible...  

Edited June 14, 2024 by monty09

[TennisAndGolf]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:43 AM, monty09 said:

I am quite sure you pay dues... i have their deck and the texas one somewhere.. 

 

are you the same monty09 from the WSO forums? If so…small world

[monty09]

On 6/15/2024 at 1:57 PM, TennisAndGolf said:

 

are you the same monty09 from the WSO forums? If so…small world

 

 

in the flesh baby

[MJC0522]

I know Im late to the party, but would someone care to DM me the pricing info they've been able to obtain? Interested really in any club in the southeast that someone thinks is worth the value. Concession is a nice track Ive gotten to play once so it peaks my interest, as well as Chechessee and Sucession.

[StoutKing]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:53 AM, monty09 said:

 

 

75,000 + lets say 6k dues... thats 13,000 a year for first 10 years....  lets say you live in denver so can get there a ton... call it 50 rounds a season...  $270 a round....   say you live in LA or Dallas... 15 rounds a year is now $866...   the member could end up paying the highest price per round over a generic guest 

 

I think rodeo dunes is hoping to capture the market of golfers flying into denver and in route to BN, Caprock, SH, etc etc 

 

the math for a public resort membership is bananas..  and to think it will be even close to BD is just not smart...   if its 50% of BD dunes call it a success. 

 

I personally think every "dunes" project going forward will be very tough to sell memberships 

100% agree.  Anyone who pays for a membership at Rodeo is flushing money down the drain.

[StudentGolfer4]

43 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

100% agree.  Anyone who pays for a membership at Rodeo is flushing money down the drain.

You guys are looking at it the wrong way. If you are looking at a country club membership and cost per round is discussed then the membership is not for you. Multiply that x10 for a national membership. 
 

The draw of any national membership is access.

 

Rodeo states they will hold tee times each day for founding members. Using bandon as an example, there are a lot of wealthy people that would head to bandon 4-6 times a year if they could do so on short notice. Reality is you have to be on the phone the minute booking opens 16-18 months, or whatever it is now, in advance. This National Membership is for them. 
 

Honestly, 80% of the guys I know with National memberships couldn’t even tell you what they pay a year. They do it because they can and because they like to get away and enjoy the course and trip with buddies. 
 

One member told me he joined at Calusa because it was a good price you can pass the membership to a child. Plays low single digit rounds a year there. It’s open half the year. Cost per round? Hahaha. Especially if you include initiation. 
 

Another member belongs to National Golf Links. Told me in 2023 he made 4 trips there and played 9 total rounds. Cost per round? Priceless. 

[StoutKing]

nm

Edited November 1, 2024 by StoutKing
nm

[monty09]

On 8/10/2024 at 7:26 PM, StudentGolfer4 said:

You guys are looking at it the wrong way. If you are looking at a country club membership and cost per round is discussed then the membership is not for you. Multiply that x10 for a national membership. 
 

The draw of any national membership is access.

 

Rodeo states they will hold tee times each day for founding members. Using bandon as an example, there are a lot of wealthy people that would head to bandon 4-6 times a year if they could do so on short notice. Reality is you have to be on the phone the minute booking opens 16-18 months, or whatever it is now, in advance. This National Membership is for them. 
 

Honestly, 80% of the guys I know with National memberships couldn’t even tell you what they pay a year. They do it because they can and because they like to get away and enjoy the course and trip with buddies. 
 

One member told me he joined at Calusa because it was a good price you can pass the membership to a child. Plays low single digit rounds a year there. It’s open half the year. Cost per round? Hahaha. Especially if you include initiation. 
 

Another member belongs to National Golf Links. Told me in 2023 he made 4 trips there and played 9 total rounds. Cost per round? Priceless. 

 

 

I am wealthy and wont go to BD 4-6 times a year.   Calusa has never been a good price so thats a ltitle odd but hey Naples is one of the wealthiest zip codes in America maybe they dont care about money.. that's not the rodeo dunes crowd.  NGLA is one of the cheapest courses on Long Island.... also has some of the wealthiest memberships  your examples make very little sense in proving your point here ... are either one of them going to middle of nowhere texas 3-4 times a year?  I will say 99.99% no

[StudentGolfer4]

The point is national memberships are not about finding a good deal. If you’re using price per round it will never make any sense. They’re for wealthy guys that would like to play the course 3-4 weekends a year and generally are concerned about the finances. 

Calusa has been a good price for some people before. Maybe it wasn’t a good price for you but that doesn’t make it true for everyone. I know a total of 1 Calusa members so you may be right and rodeo dunes isn’t that crowd. But the Calusa member I’m around has 2 trips to bandon booked this year and is building a residence at sand valley as we speak. It’s not a reach to think they may be interested in another Dream Golf Property. 
 

Are either of them going to the middle of nowhere in Texas several times a year? I’m not sure of all their travel plans but if there was a golf course and membership worth their time I’m sure they would. There’s a member that goes to the middle of nowhere Nebraska 3-4 times a year to play Sand Hills. I haven’t been but I can’t imagine middle of nowhere Texas is much different than middle of nowhere Nebraska. When you have a private plane it doesn’t really matter if something is in the middle of nowhere.

(Maybe we are talking about different courses but I believe Rodeo Dunes is a bit outside of Denver. In that case it’s a 60-90 minute drive from a major metro area. Maybe that’s their primary audience. I’m certainly not their target demographic so I don’t know.)

5 hours ago, monty09 said:

 

 

I am wealthy and wont go to BD 4-6 times a year.   Calusa has never been a good price so thats a ltitle odd but hey Naples is one of the wealthiest zip codes in America maybe they dont care about money.. that's not the rodeo dunes crowd.  NGLA is one of the cheapest courses on Long Island.... also has some of the wealthiest memberships  your examples make very little sense in proving your point here ... are either one of them going to middle of nowhere texas 3-4 times a year?  I will say 99.99% no

[monty09]

2 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

The point is national memberships are not about finding a good deal. If you’re using price per round it will never make any sense. They’re for wealthy guys that would like to play the course 3-4 weekends a year and generally are concerned about the finances. 

Calusa has been a good price for some people before. Maybe it wasn’t a good price for you but that doesn’t make it true for everyone. I know a total of 1 Calusa members so you may be right and rodeo dunes isn’t that crowd. But the Calusa member I’m around has 2 trips to bandon booked this year and is building a residence at sand valley as we speak. It’s not a reach to think they may be interested in another Dream Golf Property. 
 

Are either of them going to the middle of nowhere in Texas several times a year? I’m not sure of all their travel plans but if there was a golf course and membership worth their time I’m sure they would. There’s a member that goes to the middle of nowhere Nebraska 3-4 times a year to play Sand Hills. I haven’t been but I can’t imagine middle of nowhere Texas is much different than middle of nowhere Nebraska. When you have a private plane it doesn’t really matter if something is in the middle of nowhere.

(Maybe we are talking about different courses but I believe Rodeo Dunes is a bit outside of Denver. In that case it’s a 60-90 minute drive from a major metro area. Maybe that’s their primary audience. I’m certainly not their target demographic so I don’t know.)

 

 

comparing anything to sand hills is flawed logic....   but hey enjoy your 1 CP member and his travel schedule 

[Dancin]

24 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

...I believe Rodeo Dunes is a bit outside of Denver. In that case it’s a 60-90 minute drive from a major metro area...

It's 50 minutes from Denver, 45 minutes from the airport rental car pickup.

[LongNwrong27]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:12 PM, Mullenboy said:

A great man told me long ago:  "if you have to think about the cost for a club membership, you shouldn't do it."

 

The math NEVER works.  Not if you do care about money.

 

You pay for fun and convenience.

Sure there is a value in exclusivity and access but neither of those are things for a public resort. Seems like the worst of both worlds. Pay a ton to subsidize their public  resort. Sucker born every minute. Could pay similar dough and get a real private national membership somewhere pretty decent. 

[Mullenboy]

2 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Sure there is a value in exclusivity and access but neither of those are things for a public resort. Seems like the worst of both worlds. Pay a ton to subsidize their public  resort. Sucker born every minute. Could pay similar dough and get a real private national membership somewhere pretty decent. 

In my post I was only referring to private clubs.  

[Golfnutz001]

Definitely have the same issue as I search for an alternate National Membership. Would greatly appreciate any all color available on YH, CheChessee Creek, Seccession, Old Barnwell and Tree Farm if anyone has it. Thank you in advance

[Dancin]

6 hours ago, Golfnutz001 said:

Definitely have the same issue as I search for an alternate National Membership. Would greatly appreciate any all color available on YH, CheChessee Creek, Seccession, Old Barnwell and Tree Farm if anyone has it. Thank you in advance

Pretty sure Old Barnwell is full. Tree Farm is charging members pay to play fees from the fee sheet somebody showed me (supposedly to recoup costs of a botched irrigation install that had to be fixed, but I don't know that for sure).

[monty09]

On 8/20/2024 at 10:40 PM, Dancin said:

Pretty sure Old Barnwell is full. Tree Farm is charging members pay to play fees from the fee sheet somebody showed me (supposedly to recoup costs of a botched irrigation install that had to be fixed, but I don't know that for sure).

 

 

I am saving money for when Tree Farm is for sale. I don't see it making it with current ownership group.