This season I'm noticing I'm a lot more sore after playing. Shaft weight catching up to me?

[JermWRX]

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but if it's not maybe the mods will kick it over to whatever they feel is appropriate👍🏻

 

I'm 49 and keep myself in pretty good shape. 6'3" 215 and relatively fit for my age. Not the biggest cardio guy anymore, but I still weight train and I own a construction company. This season I've found myself sore after 18 holes. I play 18 3-4 times a week and 9 once or twice a week. My back is sore, as is my neck. Not an injury kind of sore, but a beat up kind of sore. Could it be that it's time to change shafts? I play Modus 120X in my irons (first season with these), and Ventus Blue Velo in my woods. Anyone have any similar experiences? Should I give something lighter a try? Was thinking about looking at 95-105 gram shafts. I play a combo of 923 Forged and HMP. Thanks!

Edited September 14, 2023 by JermWRX
Typo

[GolfTurkey]

Do you do any stretching, that's the first thing that comes to mind?

 

15-25g is quite a large weight drop so I would definitely suggest a fitting / installing that in one club first.

 

Maybe graphite iron shafts to reduce vibration, although that's usually to help wrists and elbows.

[JermWRX]

2 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

Do you do any stretching, that's the first thing that comes to mind?

 

15-25g is quite a large weight drop so I would definitely suggest a fitting / installing that in one club first.

 

Maybe graphite iron shafts to reduce vibration, although that's usually to help wrists and elbows.

I do yoga ball stuff, and home traction exercises. That helps keep my lower back from locking up. Regular visits to the chiro. I warm up before every round by stretching and then hitting the range. This soreness is mostly in my lats and traps. Feels like it's being overworked, if that makes any sense. I'm probably grasping at straws LOL. I just can't figure out why this season is dramatically different than the past

[@_the_crook]

could be shaft weight, could be the flex.

obviously, something has changed if you feel tired/sore after playing.

 

if it's not a physical issue, and I hope that's not the case - time to see a fitter.

[bladehunter]

Graphite will take the pain away. But I wouldn’t go lighter.  Mmt 125 or similar works. I’m very similar to you in size and I work manual  labor too ….and it was an all at once thing. One summer it just hurt all the time to play.  Usually would start by the 15th hole or so.  I walk most rounds too , so that’s part of it. I was playing modus 130x at the time. Going to graphite took that away.  I personally believe that we manual labor guys wear out certain things before the desk jockeys do.  And on the flip side the desk jockeys have less endurance , and heat conditioning etc because of the AC , sedentary lifestyle.  

[3step]

Go test longer length iron clubs, (meaning - find the correct length for your frame and swing).

 

When we are in our 20’s and 30’s, our bodies quickly recover from stress on our back from round to round and swing to swing. However, as we age, we lose the ability to recover quickly, and so stress is stacked upon stress and our back hurts.

 

I have fit thousands of golfers with your description, and learning the proper iron length for you is where I would start.

 

You are obviously a successful guy, and have the great opportunity to enjoy this game. Listen to what your back is saying, and find a competent, skilled place to get checked out for iron shaft length and iron lie. 
 

This is key for your wedge clubs.

I bet as you are reading this reply, and imagining standing over the ball with your sand wedge, you are already feeling back pain.

 

3step

[jvincent]

13 hours ago, JermWRX said:

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but if it's not maybe the mods will kick it over to whatever they feel is appropriate👍🏻

 

I'm 49 and keep myself in pretty good shape. 6'3" 215 and relatively fit for my age. Not the biggest cardio guy anymore, but I still weight train and I own a construction company. This season I've found myself sore after 18 holes. I play 18 3-4 times a week and 9 once or twice a week. My back is sore, as is my neck. Not an injury kind of sore, but a beat up kind of sore.

 

You have what we refer to as "the olds".

 

Golf is a rotational sport so if you've lost flexibility that's potentially a cause. Stretching exercises will probably be a help.

 

FWIW I'm 57, playing what most would consider heavy shafts and don't have that issue. Fortunately I'm naturally pretty flexible.

[dmeeksDC]

Graphite shafts may help mask your issues but they won’t solve it. Stretching is unlikely to solve it alone even if it is useful to do. Problem is science has shown that typical stretching will only stretch large muscles and won’t do a thing to release the tightness in the tendons and ligaments connected to joints, which is really the culprit of major soreness and loss of range of motion that most people start to feel chronically as they age. Most people who stretch see little to no improvement in range of motion because they’re not releasing what is causing it. 
 

Remember, back issues start because the small spinal stabilizer muscles get weaker while the muscles around the lower back get stronger, creating an imbalance that ultimately affects the now-weaker lower back. The more tension in the other muscles, the more they affect the back. So tight hips, tight lats, tight hamstrings — bad for the back. You can try to stretch those areas til the cows come home and you’ll make some progress, but minimal compared to really addressing it. 
 

Investigate “release/mobility” workouts using a lacrosse ball or softball like they offer at Par4Success. They have an assessment they offer that will measure your current range of motion. No one passes all the tests in the assessment and many fail all of them. Most people, even younger people, don’t realize range of motion is decreasing and that it is reversible. I paid for and went through the full Par4Success program. It is work, I’m not going to lie. You will find a lot of hot spots as the tension releases. It will bring tears to your eyes in a “hurts so good” kind of way. But it is designed for golf and it is amazing. The payoff has been big for me: no more back soreness, no hip soreness, no hamstring soreness. Speed goes up, stamina goes up, range of motion in my lower and upper body is substantially increased. The lacrosse ball workouts are eye-opening, seriously eye-opening. It matters not how old you are. 
 

I’ve heard Dennis Paulson on PGA Tour radio talk about what this program did for him. He’s like a new man. Helped his life, helped his golf. You feel markedly better the day after the first workout. After a week of it you are amazed at how much better you feel and wish you’d done it sooner. 
 

 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Yoga.

 

It will offer the same payoff as any expensive golf tailored workout because it is about core strength and flexibility.

The reason for back pain is commonly because the muscles there are overworked. They are meant for stability and support; not to carry loads; not for power. The muscle man pulling a bus isn't pulling the bus with his back. He's doing that with his legs. He's using his body's natural back brace to hold his upper body steady; his abs. The back muscles are merely for support and stability. The minute he uses his back to carry it that extra inch, he's down for the count.

 

Golf may be different, but back pain isn't caused by some combination of special contributors. It's caused by improper muscle usage. Usually, that's because of a weakened core. The lower back muscles are naturally the "strongest" and so they are the ones that get extra usage.

 

Yoga helps address that because it teaches your body how to actually use the muscles whilst increasing core strength. When done correctly, it helps to achieve that strength and flexibility through proper muscle usage. In fact, Yoga can be dangerous to that end because advanced routines can cause injury when one uses those muscles to carry load because they can't otherwise maintain the posture.

Everybody I've ever known that has actually done Yoga speaks of how good they feel over time. You can do it for a lot less than $300/mo.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Mikey_HACKilroy

[azone]

Shaft weight is not the issue.  Performance training-- flexibility/mobility symmetry, synchronized effort.  That is what you need.  Yoga is very good, if you can find a performance trainer that is good.  This is not the same as weight training, which could actually make your effort worse.  If your mind is writing checks your body cannot cash, then you need to be sure your body can move the way you are asking it to move.  I am a high-performing 70 yr old, been playing since I was 5.  I am 3 weeks into a performance training approach and have seen remarkable results already.

[596]

Sometimes there's nothing you can do to stop back pain. My doctor's take one look at my MRIs and just say "oh sh*t".  4 pinched nerves, pinched spinal cord, arthritis, bulging discs, slipped discs. And that's only a partial list 😂 and I still score in the 70s!

 

75g graphite shafts helped a lot. 

[1s1k]

100% Tart Cherry juice. 

 

8oz's every two days.

[JermWRX]

Wow!!! So much awesome info, here! You guys are the best. Definitely going to heed advice and suggestions from this forum. I love GolfWRX!!! So much info I never would've thought of on my own. Thanks so much!!

[ChipNRun]

21 hours ago, JermWRX said:

Not the biggest cardio guy anymore, but I still weight train and I own a construction company. This season I've found myself sore after 18 holes. I play 18 3-4 times a week and 9 once or twice a week. My back is sore, as is my neck. Not an injury kind of sore, but a beat up kind of sore.

 

I would suggest that your fitness training and golf dedication may be combining to deliver cumulative trauma to your body.

 

A couple of considerations:

• Do you stretch and cool down after you play? Do you hydrate after your round? This advice comes from my brother who is a college soccer referee (age 70) and an avid golfer. In soccer league, the referee crews are splitting out over cooldown. The refs who cool down will stay around a bit longer than the ones who run off the field and head out to supper.
• Do you listen to your body? Maybe some weeks you need to just play eighteen x 2 and skip one workout.
• The actual weight of the shafts. On the 16th hole, are you still swinging on tempo? Or, are you fighting the shaft on the back nine? Our head pro is a thirty-something gym rat, and two years ago he went lighter on his iron shafts. Went from PX steel to one of the lighter DG Tour shafts in his irons, and a shaft lighter in his woods. His problem: When he got to play golf two days in a row (i.e., small sectional PGA tournaments) he was always tired during the day 2 round, really missing shots on the final nine. The lighter shafts made the problem go away.

Caution: (This is from club designer Tom Wishon. If you go lighter, don't go too light. This also can cause major tempo problems.)

[CactusGolf]

I experienced the same thing.  For me, it was a combination of weight, lack of stretching/mobility regular exercise, and shafts.

 

I put on some weight due to an absolutely dreadful job and ended up doing DDP Yoga to help with the weight and flexibility.  That helped a significant amount!

 

Also, I ended up switching to all graphite in my irons and wedges and that really helped with the vibration up and down the arm.  Noticed it way more when conditions got hard and dry out here in Kentucky this summer. 

[black bnr32]

Sounds like just too much golf.  Heresy, I know. 

[shart6]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:27 PM, JermWRX said:

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but if it's not maybe the mods will kick it over to whatever they feel is appropriate👍🏻

 

I'm 49 and keep myself in pretty good shape. 6'3" 215 and relatively fit for my age. Not the biggest cardio guy anymore, but I still weight train and I own a construction company. This season I've found myself sore after 18 holes. I play 18 3-4 times a week and 9 once or twice a week. My back is sore, as is my neck. Not an injury kind of sore, but a beat up kind of sore. Could it be that it's time to change shafts? I play Modus 120X in my irons (first season with these), and Ventus Blue Velo in my woods. Anyone have any similar experiences? Should I give something lighter a try? Was thinking about looking at 95-105 gram shafts. I play a combo of 923 Forged and HMP. Thanks!

 

Based on family and clients who own construction companies they tend to have more soreness as they age than other people.

[JermWRX]

2 hours ago, shart6 said:

 

Based on family and clients who own construction companies they tend to have more soreness as they age than other people.

Definitely true. Watched my physical beast of father break down before I took over, and I see it all over my business. I've been fortunate enough to scale back from the physical aspect as much as I can, but I've been swinging a hammer since I was a kid, and professionally since I was 18.

[JermWRX]

2 hours ago, black bnr32 said:

Sounds like just too much golf.  Heresy, I know. 

You must have stumbled into the the wrong forum. This is WRX😂

[bnperrone]

Going from 130g+ shafts to ~115g (so, heavy weight to mid weight) was great for me. I’m younger than you but that was moving on from the set I was fit into at 25 as I approached 40. No regrets but I did bounce around a bit within that weight class before I settled on what I’ve stuck with. A single fitting put me into that category but it’s a lot to ask to make that kind of move and find the perfect option at once.

[llewol007]

Went through the same playing 130 gram shafts in a slightly stiffer than stiff steel shafts. Eventually developed golfers fatigue in my forearms and took a good part of 6 months for the pain and soreness to finally go away. I’ve finally settled on recoil shafts which I believe dampen the vibration enough aswell as playing 95 gram shafts. Longevity plays a part in this game. Either that or strengthen the active muscles that you use and maybe that will elevate some of the soreness you are experiencing.

[xs2k]

Wow...I feel like a weakling after reading this.  At 40 and rocking 65g graphite shafts.  lmao😁

[ShawLF]

@JermWRX lots of great info in this thread. One thing to add is that since you already train with weights increasing range of motion (ROM) / mobility with stability would probably be beneficial. For this reason I've recently started pilates and I imagine yoga is the same. The difference would be "how much can you squat" vs. "how far can you single leg squat before your knee shakes or turns inward/outward".

 

Here's one example from that video. She has a hard time externally rotating her shoulder. In the golf swing, we need this ROM to shallow the club in the downswing and absorb the force in the follow through. If we lack that ROM we're likely to compensate by putting the lumbar spine into excessive extension. Similarly, if someone lacks thoracic spine extension mobility they'll make up for it with lumbar spine extension. 

 

 

There are some TPI mobility tests online that are more detailed than that video. I've done these with a couple PTs, but you can do them on your own. Worth checking out.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by ShawLF