Pine cone hit on green

[denkea]

While putting a player's putt erroneously off line hits a pine cone on the green.  Does he have to replay the shot?

 

How about Pine needles on the green?  

[Newby]

19 minutes ago, denkea said:

1) While putting a player's putt erroneously off line hits a pine cone on the green.  Does he have to replay the shot?

 

2) How about Pine needles on the green?  

1) Play the ball as it now lies. No penalty.

2) They are Loose Impediments and may be brushed aside, providing you don't make a 'channel' to guide the ball.

[larrybud]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:47 AM, denkea said:

While putting a player's putt erroneously off line hits a pine cone on the green.  Does he have to replay the shot?

 

How about Pine needles on the green?  

 

It doesn't matter how a ball ended up where it ended up. It matters where it ends. Hitting a pine cone is no different than banging one off a tree.

 

The only "replay" situation I've ever seen in golf is when there's a local rule on hitting overhead power lines. I've seen it both where the ball "may" be replayed and where the ball "must" be replayed.

[Schulzmc]

29 minutes ago, larrybud said:

The only "replay" situation I've ever seen in golf is when there's a local rule on hitting overhead power lines. I've seen it both where the ball "may" be replayed and where the ball "must" be replayed.

Add the following:

 

If a putt hits another person (with exceptions), a movable object (with exceptions), or an animal not defined as a loose impediment, the putt must be replayed (see Rule 11.1). I’m guessing this is what brought the OPs question.

 

The other time a replay is possible is when an opponent plays out of order in match play, they can be forced to replay the shot. (See 6.4a)

 

 

[tatertot]

Read rule 11.1 B(2) ...

Edited November 10, 2023 by tatertot

[Colin L]

13 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

Add the following:

 

If a putt hits another person (with exceptions), a movable object (with exceptions), or an animal not defined as a loose impediment, the putt must be replayed (see Rule 11.1). I’m guessing this is what brought the OPs question.

 

The other time a replay is possible is when an opponent plays out of order in match play, they can be forced to replay the shot. (See 6.4a)

 

 

Or, if you start a hole from outside the teeing area your opponent may require you to replay the shot.

[larrybud]

6 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Read rule 11.1 B(2) ...

 

Thanks.

(2) When Ball Is Played from Putting Green. If a player’s ball in motion played from the putting green accidentally hits the player or an outside influence, the ball must normally be played as it lies. But if it is known or virtually certain that the ball in motion hit any of the following on the putting green, the player must replay the stroke by playing the original ball or another ball from the spot where that stroke was made (see Rule 14.6):

 

Anybody ever see this rule applied in a tournament, ever?

[Augster]

There USED to be the Rule that if your putt in motion was struck by a loose impediment, that was also in motion, and your ball was visually knocked off line, then you’d have to replay the putt. 
 

They got rid of it in the latest revision of the ROG it seems. 

[Newby]

2 hours ago, larrybud said:

 

It doesn't matter how a ball ended up where it ended up. It matters where it ends. Hitting a pine cone is no different than banging one off a tree.

 

The only "replay" situation I've ever seen in golf is when there's a local rule on hitting overhead power lines. I've seen it both where the ball "may" be replayed and where the ball "must" be replayed.

That would be an illegal Local Rule of course.

 

E-11 A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball that hits a power line is not authorized.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Colin L said:

Or, if you start a hole from outside the teeing area your opponent may require you to replay the shot.

 

That's not technically replaying the shot, though, since you haven't started the hole, and since you must play a new shot from a different place.

[nitram]

2 hours ago, larrybud said:

 

Thanks.

(2) When Ball Is Played from Putting Green. If a player’s ball in motion played from the putting green accidentally hits the player or an outside influence, the ball must normally be played as it lies. But if it is known or virtually certain that the ball in motion hit any of the following on the putting green, the player must replay the stroke by playing the original ball or another ball from the spot where that stroke was made (see Rule 14.6😞

 

Anybody ever see this rule applied in a tournament, ever?

No, either as a player, caddie, or committee member.

[Augster]

3 hours ago, Newby said:

That would be an illegal Local Rule of course.

 

E-11 A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball that hits a power line is not authorized.

What?

 

Why is that line in MLR E-11? The entire MLR is all about replaying the shot if the ball hits the power line. 
 

So weird. 

[rogolf]

44 minutes ago, Augster said:

What?

 

Why is that line in MLR E-11? The entire MLR is all about replaying the shot if the ball hits the power line. 
 

So weird. 

It's there to clarify that the player "must" replay the stroke, it's not optional and a local Rule making it optional would not be authorized.

[antip]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

 

That's not technically replaying the shot, though, since you haven't started the hole, and since you must play a new shot from a different place.

Pedantry warning. The hole has actually started even though no ball is in play in stroke play -  see 6.1a.

[antip]

6 hours ago, larrybud said:

 

Thanks.

(2) When Ball Is Played from Putting Green. If a player’s ball in motion played from the putting green accidentally hits the player or an outside influence, the ball must normally be played as it lies. But if it is known or virtually certain that the ball in motion hit any of the following on the putting green, the player must replay the stroke by playing the original ball or another ball from the spot where that stroke was made (see Rule 14.6😞

 

Anybody ever see this rule applied in a tournament, ever?

Yes, on the Champions Tour about 2 years ago, one of the Scandinavian players got the general penalty for failing to replay.

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, antip said:

Pedantry warning. The hole has actually started even though no ball is in play in stroke play -  see 6.1a.

 

Thanks. I was being pedantic in pointing out that you're not "replaying" the shot and slipped up myself. 🤣

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, rogolf said:

It's there to clarify that the player "must" replay the stroke, it's not optional and a local Rule making it optional would not be authorized.

 

Interesting. I thought everything in USGA and R&A were identical. Apparently not this one.

 

The USGA version says "A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball that hits a power line should not be implemented." (NOT "is not authorized" (a definite "No"))

 

So apparently in the USA, the course CAN make just such an option.

 

Somehow my googled results gave me an older version - please ignore. R&S and USGA are the same - must replay.

Edited November 11, 2023 by nsxguy

[rogolf]

19 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Interesting. I thought everything in USGA and R&A were identical. Apparently not this one.

 

The USGA version says "A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball that hits a power line should not be implemented." (NOT "is not authorized" (a definite "No"))

 

So apparently in the USA, the course CAN make just such an option.

I don't know why you make the assumption that they are different?  Both the USGA and R&A websites say,

"A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball hat hits a power line is not authorized."

And I'm sure the printed books are the same also.

Edited November 11, 2023 by rogolf

[Augster]

3 hours ago, rogolf said:

It's there to clarify that the player "must" replay the stroke, it's not optional and a local Rule making it optional would not be authorized.

Ah. I see it now. Thanks for the clarification. “The option to replay”. 
 

Thanks!

[nsxguy]

42 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I don't know why you make the assumption that they are different?  Both the USGA and R&A websites say,

"A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball hat hits a power line is not authorized."

And I'm sure the printed books are the same also.

 

Well, THAT is interesting.

 

Wasn't an assumption, I copied it right from E-11. Or so I thought. I googled "USGA rules local rules" and went to E-11. I appear to have gotten an older(?) version ?

 

So I googled 2023 USGA Rules of Golf, went through the steps and found E-11 and you are correct. Same as R&A.

 

Sorry about that. I'll fix my post so as not to confuse anybody.

 

Thanks. 👍

[rogolf]

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Well, THAT is interesting.

 

Wasn't an assumption, I copied it right from E-11. Or so I thought. I googled "USGA rules local rules" and went to E-11. I appear to have gotten an older(?) version ?

 

So I googled 2023 USGA Rules of Golf, went through the steps and found E-11 and you are correct. Same as R&A.

 

Sorry about that. I'll fix my post so as not to confuse anybody.

 

Thanks. 👍

Google is not always your friend!

[iacas]

Just bookmark the Rules.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=1