Elite Golf Schools

[Carlito]

One of their best. What do you think?

 

The short version! 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnMKo5CAEvI/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Edited November 23, 2023 by Carlito

[Deadaimz]

That is a great video. It looks to be a good blueprint.

[Carlito]

 

And here the super-short version to feel and don't lose the connection chest/arms.

 

Maybe the video from Elite Golf Schools can bring the body vs. arm fraction closer together?

Sorry for another video, but you can stop at 1:30 to get the information…

Edited November 24, 2023 by Carlito

[Doodlebug87]

I think elite golf are awesome - they teach a chest driven rotational swing with a stable clubface and somewhat of a squat, which immediately makes you think of Milo Vs AMG. However if you watch all of their videos on wrists and arms, including this one, it's very clear that they sit somewhere in between and actually share lots of ideas with Monte for instance - this video is effectively cast a and b being taught in isolation from rotation. 

 

 

[scotee]

This guy teaches a move much like Elite Golf

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvaxDjUh_wQ/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng%3D%3D

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzMuHzEB_kW/

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by scotee

[i*windows]

these guys are great, although I find some of the some of the videos filled with too much golf pseudo science

[NoCalHack]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0NNyGDu_ve/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

That’s their latest instagram. Man I don’t know. It seems they follow the same philosophy as Gankas and Milo Lines.  I follow these guys on instagram and maybe if works for some but not for me. 
 

This “square the club with the body” idea seems to go against what I see most good golfers do. Like Tiger and Rory. For me it’s a recipe for weak right shots. 
 

What I find funny is that they show videos where they demonstrate the move. Which is to basically not release the hands at all and turn the body. And when they actually swing, of course they are releasing the club. I know it’s exaggerated but watch the kid swing. You cannot hit the ball from the position he rehearses. 
 

I know it’s feel vs real. But to me when I try this I get stuck and hit weak shots. I’d bet that this swing thought would ruin more swings than it helps. 
 

 

[Chunkitgood]

I couldn’t stand to watch the whole thing, but what is interesting is they talk about radial deviation, followed by extension, then supination…no ulnar deviation, so that the “wrist break”  (aka in some circles lag, in others power accumulator no. 3 IIRC, in others the angle between the arm and the shaft) is maintained to impact.  Which is what most people don’t do as they allow centrifugal force to straighten the arm/club assembly and early extend.

 

“Just move your divot up.”  Real funny.

[Carlito]

2 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

no ulnar deviation, so that the “wrist break”

Ulnar deviation goes along with supination of the right arm. In my opinion it's a combo like a  kind of "twist-unloading". 

Yes, the extension of the right wrist will remain. 

[CSagan]

12 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0NNyGDu_ve/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

That’s their latest instagram. Man I don’t know. It seems they follow the same philosophy as Gankas and Milo Lines.  I follow these guys on instagram and maybe if works for some but not for me. 
 

This “square the club with the body” idea seems to go against what I see most good golfers do. Like Tiger and Rory. For me it’s a recipe for weak right shots. 
 

What I find funny is that they show videos where they demonstrate the move. Which is to basically not release the hands at all and turn the body. And when they actually swing, of course they are releasing the club. I know it’s exaggerated but watch the kid swing. You cannot hit the ball from the position he rehearses. 
 

I know it’s feel vs real. But to me when I try this I get stuck and hit weak shots. I’d bet that this swing thought would ruin more swings than it helps. 
 

 

That release is tough. Some people pull it off. I have to use my hands to square it. It’s definitely the sexiest looking release but plenty of world beaters roll those forearms over right after impact. But yeah I agree with ya, it doesn’t work for most. 

[NoCalHack]

1 hour ago, CSagan said:

That release is tough. Some people pull it off. I have to use my hands to square it. It’s definitely the sexiest looking release but plenty of world beaters roll those forearms over right after impact. But yeah I agree with ya, it doesn’t work for most. 

 

 

 

I would say nobody does it.  I guess they are trying to teach a Hovland-type swing, but even Hovland is actively extending his arm and releasing his wrist on the downswing. 

 

I guess there may be people who have an issue with overactive hands that may benefit from this, but I think this is death move for most golfers.  It's 100% a death move for me.  If I don't feel like I'm actively trying to unhinge from the top, I hit it terribly.  If I do feel that, I get myself in a good position.

 

Every video I see them post is something of this nature.  Square the club with the body and not the hands.  One thing that I can see objectively say is that these guys seem to teach a "formula" swing, or system swing.  I personally would very wary of anyone that does that.  Because this automatically assumes everyone has the same problem that they seem to have the magic fix for.  

[CSagan]

Well really it should feel the body and hands squaring it up, at least for me. When both are in sync its ez sailing...but sometimes that goes a little sideways.

[Simpsonia]

14 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0NNyGDu_ve/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

That’s their latest instagram. Man I don’t know. It seems they follow the same philosophy as Gankas and Milo Lines.  I follow these guys on instagram and maybe if works for some but not for me. 
 

This “square the club with the body” idea seems to go against what I see most good golfers do. Like Tiger and Rory. For me it’s a recipe for weak right shots. 
 

What I find funny is that they show videos where they demonstrate the move. Which is to basically not release the hands at all and turn the body. And when they actually swing, of course they are releasing the club. I know it’s exaggerated but watch the kid swing. You cannot hit the ball from the position he rehearses. 
 

I know it’s feel vs real. But to me when I try this I get stuck and hit weak shots. I’d bet that this swing thought would ruin more swings than it helps. 
 

 

 

 

It's a correlation/causation thing. They see this release pattern is more pronounced some of the guys they like (Hovland, et al.) and teach it to the exclusion of other patterns. Though they are mistaking the supination for club face instability through impact. Tyler Ferrell has actually measured golfers who have more pronounced supination moves (the one they are teaching against in this IG, a more traditional move) and almost all of that extra club face closure comes after impact. They pretty much have the same club face stability through impact that the pure flexion guys do. 

[Golfbeat]

45 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

 

It's a correlation/causation thing. They see this release pattern is more pronounced some of the guys they like (Hovland, et al.) and teach it to the exclusion of other patterns. Though they are mistaking the supination for club face instability through impact. Tyler Ferrell has actually measured golfers who have more pronounced supination moves (the one they are teaching against in this IG, a more traditional move) and almost all of that extra club face closure comes after impact. They pretty much have the same club face stability through impact that the pure flexion guys do. 

 

Agree, it's a myth that the flexion/extension move provides a more stable release. The lead arm pronation move (knuckles down) creates a similar stable release in tour players. For senior players, the pronation release ala Tyler would be probably easier on the body and would potentially even create a bit more speed with the hands and arms.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Golfbeat

[iacas]

For most players… a little bit of twist, a little bit of roll. Twisting is palmar flexion, rolling is a forearm (the other one rolls too).

 

I see a lot of players who ulnar deviate too much too early, and then they have to throw it. I call the position where around P6.5 you see an angle between the lead forearm and the pinkie side of the hand with the back of that lead hand still facing the camera "ulnar throwing" because they've ulnar deviated a lot, but then will have to throw the trail hand like crazy to square the face.

[Carlito]

38 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

. The lead arm pronation move (knuckles down)

Do you mean supination? In my opinion both hands/forearms  supinate during the release.

[Carlito]

16 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

This “square the club with the body” idea seems to go against what I see most good golfers do. Like Tiger and Rory. For me it’s a recipe for weak right shots. 

The club face is always square (at P3 looks  closed). Therefore they have not to square it with body rotation.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Carlito said:

Do you mean supination? In my opinion both hands/forearms  supinate during the release.

 

[Golfbeat]

5 hours ago, Carlito said:

Do you mean supination? In my opinion both hands/forearms  supinate during the release.

 

yes, my bad.

[Deadaimz]

 

 

I have more success supinating and pronating than with this style of release. And to me it feels more stable pronating and supinating than flexion extension of the wrists.

[Golfbeat]

This makes most sense to me.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0PYFPLpEq0/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

 

[MPStrat]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

For most players… a little bit of twist, a little bit of roll. Twisting is palmar flexion, rolling is a forearm (the other one rolls too).

 

I see a lot of players who ulnar deviate too much too early, and then they have to throw it. I call the position where around P6.5 you see an angle between the lead forearm and the pinkie side of the hand with the back of that lead hand still facing the camera "ulnar throwing" because they've ulnar deviated a lot, but then will have to throw the trail hand like crazy to square the face.

I hope people don’t just skim over this and read it closely. 

[MK7Golf21]

2 hours ago, MPStrat said:

I hope people don’t just skim over this and read it closely. 

 

so basically casting the club too much too early from the top and then have to throw the right hand at the ball like crazy to square it?

[NoCalHack]

3 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

This makes most sense to me.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0PYFPLpEq0/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

 

 

 

I think this guy nailed it.

 

Key points.

 

1) EVERY player rotates their forearms and closes the face.  There isn't a single player that doesn't.  It's all about varying degrees of rotation.  Here is a Ping test that shows that Hovland has one of the slowest closure rates, but of course it's closing.  And compared to Finau, who is the highest they tested, he closes it about 74% as fast as Finau does.  It's a small difference in the grand scheme of things.  

 

https://golf.com/instruction/10-data-revelations-ping-hi-tech-swing-program/

 

2)  MOST amateurs struggle to close their face and they hit it weak right.  That's why I say these guys at Elite Golf Schools are teaching a death move for the vast majority of Amateurs.  Heck, even top level players or pros may get screwed up with their teachings.  

 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

so basically casting the club too much too early from the top and then have to throw the right hand at the ball like crazy to square it?

 

No, not really casting. Many of these will have a good angle between their lead arm and shaft for quite awhile. They often have left their arms back and their pivot is outracing it, so they ulnar deviate while the back of the left hand is still facing away from the body to get the club to the ground sooner.

 

They'll go from here:

 

to here:

 

and then have to throw the right hand (trail hand) to square the face:

 

Instead, twist:

 

and roll:

 

You can get to these in a lot of ways. Some people will feel almost like a Ballard-like "lead elbow points down." Some will feel it with knuckles. Some the back of the lead hand, some even the trail wrist/hand/forearm…

 

(The above weren't golf swings at speed - they were very slow demonstrations from a video, so the positions seen there aren't exactly what you see in a golf swing. They're a little exaggerated, of course.)

 

15 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

1) EVERY player rotates their forearms and closes the face. There isn't a single player that doesn't.

 

Yep. No such thing as "square it with the body." Feel might work, not reality.

 

15 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

Here is a Ping test that shows that Hovland has one of the slowest closure rates, but of course it's closing.  And compared to Finau, who is the highest they tested, he closes it about 74% as fast as Finau does.  It's a small difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

And… there's almost no correlation between high rates of closure and low, and distance OR accuracy.

Edited November 30, 2023 by iacas

[johnrobison]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

And… there's almost no correlation between high rates of closure and low, and distance OR accuracy.

Learning that, when that data came out, was so liberating for me.

[NoCalHack]

4 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

Learning that, when that data came out, was so liberating for me.

 

 

Exactly. 

 

It's crazy how this idea has been propagated.  It's a 23% difference in closure.  These guys are moving their irons at 100mph.  There's no way you can convince me that an average golfer, or ANY golfer for that matter, should strive to close the face 20% slower to hit it more accurately.  

 

It's total nonsense. 

 

 

[MPStrat]

54 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

so basically casting the club too much too early from the top and then have to throw the right hand at the ball like crazy to square it?

Yes by how you’re defining casting, but some people define it differently. 
 

I also want to be clear, that there are some people who very much need to the club to fall more behind them and the feel of ulnar deviation can help and it’s not just a feel, there is some that is happening in “good” swings. But the point is that it’s easy to overdo it for many and those people actually ulnar too much. I have heard that you can’t overdo this if you ulnar deviate in the “proper” direction but that’s where I disagree. It can be overdone in any direction. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by MPStrat

[MPStrat]

8 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

Learning that, when that data came out, was so liberating for me.

Yes and some of the worst golfers have much lower rates of closure than anyone on tour. Many of those golfers need to learn to supinate and swing out to right field.

 

Even looking at 2D, it was easy to see the difference in rate of closure between a player like Brooks vs Rory. When we see things like this it’s kind of silly to make a blanket statement that lower rate of closure is something that should always be sought after. Many mid and high index struggling golfers need movements that will increase their rate of closure. 

[MPStrat]

10 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

 

 

Exactly. 

 

It's crazy how this idea has been propagated.  It's a 23% difference in closure.  These guys are moving their irons at 100mph.  There's no way you can convince me that an average golfer, or ANY golfer for that matter, should strive to close the face 20% slower to hit it more accurately.  

 

It's total nonsense. 

 

 

Ya, I don’t think striving to reduce rate of closure is a worthwhile pursuit. Swing “improvements” might result in a lower rate of closure or a higher rate of closure, depending on the player and skill level.