Elite Golf Schools

[Carlito]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:33 PM, scotee said:

Short, not technical.

What do you think?

Only move your left thumb in that way and all falls into place?

 

[gators78]

Their videos have a ton of information but they do veer into the overly technical. Big proponents of the newer ways to swing for consistency and power, but just my opinion, I think it’s tread lightly because the real key is how it applies to your swing and what specific item needs work for the biggest impact. 

[scotee]

5 hours ago, Carlito said:

What do you think?

Only move your left thumb in that way and all falls into place?

 

Of course not. There is no one easy secret to golf. Just making the point that this video was not long and technical. Sometimes a little thing can trigger an improvement and I can't think of more than 11/2 swing thoughts at the same time.😉

[scotee]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1y8V86vbF2/?igsh=bXMwd2ZoYjdvNGlz

 

One more

[Golfbeat]

6 hours ago, scotee said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1y8V86vbF2/?igsh=bXMwd2ZoYjdvNGlz

 

One more

 

It looks as if that club face will be very open at impact.

[virtuoso]

6 hours ago, scotee said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1y8V86vbF2/?igsh=bXMwd2ZoYjdvNGlz

 

One more

He doesn’t mention that you need to start swiveling your head to look at the target by P6 to execute that maneuver.

[MPStrat]

34 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

It looks as if that club face will be very open at impact.

 

Yes it would be

[MPStrat]

5 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

He doesn’t mention that you need to start swiveling your head to look at the target by P6 to execute that maneuver.

The no-look pass

[virtuoso]

10 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

The no-look pass

If you are going to drag the pee out of it, you better release your noggin. They should include that in the steps.

[MPStrat]

1 minute ago, virtuoso said:

If you are going to drag the pee out of it, you better release your noggin. They should include that in the steps.

Thankfully they clarify this, Virt. They don’t want drag. They want flexion to extension only with no forearm ration. The Jerry Brownlow pattern. 

[KD1]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

If you are going to drag the pee out of it, you better release your noggin. They should include that in the steps.

 

Do you mean drag the handle? If so I don't think that's what they're trying to teach exactly

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5BxBeWf57k?si=7vPRlF_67bwQIAYY

[Carlito]

Chest drags the arms....  at 3:20 

 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Carlito said:

Chest drags the arms....  at 3:20 

 

I'm a big "use your arms on the downswing" guy, but I do a drill where I get people to stop at about P6, make a small pump back, and then feel like they "hit it with their lead hip" (jumping/extending the lead leg, rotation only).

 

Because many players will "use their arms" late, or their wrists, or their hands, or something… and so in teaching them to use their arms earlier in the downswing, by the time they get to P6… they often have to feel like their bodies (pelvis, chest) is doing something a bit more different.

 

They used to fire the body and then the arms had to try to catch up late, so by firing the arms a bit earlier… their bodies sometimes have to learn to "keep going" a bit.

 

The difference is that my drill has the student at P6, they're starting at impact, and my drill is one where you can go pretty fast, while they're seemingly just chipping the ball (perhaps it's extra slow for demonstration).

 

I'll disagree that it's a "cool drill" because… the arms connect to the chest at the shoulders, so… yeah, where the chest goes, so go the arms. 😛  Seems pretty common sense to me in that regard. 😄 

 

It's not so much a "drag the handle" thing for me (and if I'm wildly off topic I'll delete it, or a mod can)… as it is teaching the two things: that the arms and hands have already done what they need to do, and the body has to keep doing what it's doing. The arms in my preference don't "fire" and then completely go passive in 0.15 seconds, they fire and are still firing when they enter the space from P6 to P7.5 or whatever. You're not consciously doing anything in that zone anyway, but isolating this part at least tells the pelvis/chest to "keep going."

 

--------

 

At just around 0:40, they say "the active movement of the pelvis is… to drop" and they show that occurring. I see that in almost no pro players in GEARS. Almost all players are raising the pelvis from ~P5.5 through impact.

 

I know there are a few (often young) Tour players who might look something like this at impact (below), but… I dunno. I don't see the advantages to it over a more common impact position (pelvis up, trail arm much more extended… etc.).

 

 

Edited January 23, 2024 by iacas

[KD1]

1 hour ago, Carlito said:

Chest drags the arms

 

That's correct isnt it? Re: arm swing illusion, AMG, "keep your arms in front of you", etc.

[KD1]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

At just around 0:40, they say "the active movement of the pelvis is… to drop" and they show that occurring. I see that in almost no pro players in GEARS. Almost all players are raising the pelvis from ~P5.5 through impact.

 

This video certainly shows dropping to impact but in other videos I've seen I had the impression their drop was from around p3 to p4.

 

When and how much, if any, does gears show drop?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, KD1 said:

When and how much, if any, does gears show drop?

 

It depends on the player (and their club) of course, but the backswing, to early follow-through, with an often rapid ascent (within a scale of a few inches) mid-downswing past impact.

 

Here's one (blue is a student, screenshot is from early in the session when we decided to work on this). Yellow is a major champion.

 

Edit: solid lines are top of the backswing. Impact is the dotted line. Magnitude is a little over an inch as you can see here.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2024 by iacas

[Nels55]

Here is a video that I found interesting:

I like how they describe the correct motion as being between two bookmarks and anything in between can function well.  Makes sense to me anyway. 

 

I use both releases off and on depending on how my lead thumb and wrist is feeling and how I am hitting the ball.  I have been switching back and forth for about 40 years LOL.  The high rate of release would be what I get when swinging the medicus club or doing a STC type of swing.  I never heard of keeping the lead hip back a bit in order to facilitate the lower rate of release swing.  That swing looks a lot like what Milo Lines teaches.  Doing that does take pressure off of my lead hip and it does seem to fit in with what I understand from the video lesson I got from Monte. 

[baudi]

🫠 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2024 by baudi

[Chunkitgood]

I got sort of interested in these guys and rewatched this video.  At one point he says, “You were a little fat, but that’s the easiest thing to correct, just move your divot.”

 

I admit this offhand statement triggered me a bit.  It’s so easy to get the divot in the right place that 95% plus of offers never learn to do it.

 

This is a prime example IMHO of those who play golf well believing the hard part, which they do unconsciously, is the easy part, almost taken as a given (which is what they themselves actually do, take it as a given).

 

It seems to me some golf teachers may understand intellectually that the body moves the arms and hands, but psychologically they are having none of it.  You get hand centric teaching.

 

I submit if you keep your wrists relaxed and tilt your shoulders and turn your hips and shoulders to the degree and at the pace a good golfer does in the takeaway, when the shaft is parallel your wrists will be in the same position as shown in this video, and you will have done nothing with your hands or wrists to accomplish it.  Your body imparts momentum to the club head which pulls your hands into position, but only if you move your body correctly and fast enough.

 

Maybe not.  I’m just an internet rando.

 

You can try it and see for yourself.  Don’t forget to tilt, though.  (Or as the Elite Golf School folks have it, elevate the right scapula first.)

 

 

N.B.  As far as I can tell the actual video does not contain this image, which is ambiguous to say the least.

[Phabs]

Just had another touch up lesson with these guys and something finally clicked.  My move from the top of my back swing forever has been hips out.   Last lesson we really focused on making sure my ribs are the first thing to initiate and it’s helped me shallow out quite a bit and it’s cleaned my strike up some.  

Edited July 5, 2024 by Phabs

[Carlito]

Is the correct folding of the trail arm the master for lifting and setting the club at the top? 

Watching this video i am once again finally convinced!! 😉

 

 

Edited July 5, 2024 by Carlito

[Snarkesor]

Can’t stand these guys. Every video they have some half baked application of biomechanics, constantly getting terms wrong, all with a totally unearned tone of authority. At least AMG uses data, even it’s often misinterpreted.

[iacas]

 

I want to talk specifically about this part (timestamped to 17:05) for four or five minutes.

 

Riley demonstrates something a number of golfers do (early extension, right side bend with the head tipping back to try to keep the club from wiping across the ball from well outside, etc.):

 

 

"See all this side bend here that's all the way down in my L-spine"? It's a bit of what @Snarkesor said right above, and a whole lot of missed irony about side bend given his preferred pattern.

 

Then Riley says that your rib cage is rotating the opposite direction, away from the target, in the downswing and says "their eye sockets point behind the golf ball here"… oy. 

 

 

"You're just shredding tissue there, and you're putting undue pressure on individual joint groups." 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

Here's the crux of it for me… Yes, some golfers do a bit of this. Even fewer do this a lot. But Riley acts like this is what teachers are teaching, and that what he's teaching is the antidote, and the "healthy" way to play golf. His swing model is very much like old Will Zalatoris, old Jason Day, very much like current Joaquin Niemann/Mito Pereira… Milo… 

 

 

Riley talks about how his version of "swinging" (demonstrated above, which he says Scottie Scheffler does) creates a higher rate of closure and makes it tougher to hit balls that are "going straight"… He seems to miss the fact that he just named the clear best player in the world in Scottie Scheffler and would likely name Tiger Woods as another "swinger." He's ignoring all of the data we have that show no correlation between rate of closure (over distance) and accuracy. He names Phil Mickelson as hitting some "wild drives" but the last time I checked, Phil won on the PGA Tour ~45 freaking times with six majors, and given what we know about ball striking and the importance of driving and approach shots… dude.

 

"The biggest thing, the biggest thing… is the health consequences of either move." Look, I'm not a doctor (neither is Riley, though he plays one on YouTube), but there's a reason Jason Day and Willy Z took their swings away from similar things below:

 

 

Where are their eyes pointing relative to where their chest or pelvis is pointing? How much right side bend do they have? You can estimate the angle of their pelvis tilts. And remember they're trying to rotate still pretty quickly while bent over this much.

 

Can you play good golf like old Willy Z, old JDay, current Joaquin/Mito? Obviously. Is it "healthier" to play golf that way? Ehhhh, see above about me not being a doctor and form your own conclusions. I'll only point out that the commentary when they play those swings back in slow motion on broadcasts is always of the "my back hurts just looking at that" variety.

 

But what gets me about this particular segment is that Riley shows what he seems to think other people are teaching as this perverse thing, notwithstanding his claims about where the eye sockets are pointing or what part of the spine is bending compared to players with the pattern he prefers… that's not what I teach. It's not what Monte teaches. It's not what many of my friends in the coaching/teaching world teach. It may be how some golfers swing… but at the end of the day it's a straw man.

[PedronNiall]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

 

I want to talk specifically about this part (timestamped to 17:05) for four or five minutes.

 

Riley demonstrates something a number of golfers do (early extension, right side bend with the head tipping back to try to keep the club from wiping across the ball from well outside, etc.):

 

 

"See all this side bend here that's all the way down in my L-spine"? It's a bit of what @Snarkesor said right above, and a whole lot of missed irony about side bend given his preferred pattern.

 

Then Riley says that your rib cage is rotating the opposite direction, away from the target, in the downswing and says "their eye sockets point behind the golf ball here"… oy. 

 

 

"You're just shredding tissue there, and you're putting undue pressure on individual joint groups." 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

Here's the crux of it for me… Yes, some golfers do a bit of this. Even fewer do this a lot. But Riley acts like this is what teachers are teaching, and that what he's teaching is the antidote, and the "healthy" way to play golf. His swing model is very much like old Will Zalatoris, old Jason Day, very much like current Joaquin Niemann/Mito Pereira… Milo… 

 

 

Riley talks about how his version of "swinging" (demonstrated above, which he says Scottie Scheffler does) creates a higher rate of closure and makes it tougher to hit balls that are "going straight"… He seems to miss the fact that he just named the clear best player in the world in Scottie Scheffler and would likely name Tiger Woods as another "swinger." He's ignoring all of the data we have that show no correlation between rate of closure (over distance) and accuracy. He names Phil Mickelson as hitting some "wild drives" but the last time I checked, Phil won on the PGA Tour ~45 freaking times with six majors, and given what we know about ball striking and the importance of driving and approach shots… dude.

 

"The biggest thing, the biggest thing… is the health consequences of either move." Look, I'm not a doctor (neither is Riley, though he plays one on YouTube), but there's a reason Jason Day and Willy Z took their swings away from similar things below:

 

 

Where are their eyes pointing relative to where their chest or pelvis is pointing? How much right side bend do they have? You can estimate the angle of their pelvis tilts. And remember they're trying to rotate still pretty quickly while bent over this much.

 

Can you play good golf like old Willy Z, old JDay, current Joaquin/Mito? Obviously. Is it "healthier" to play golf that way? Ehhhh, see above about me not being a doctor and form your own conclusions. I'll only point out that the commentary when they play those swings back in slow motion on broadcasts is always of the "my back hurts just looking at that" variety.

 

But what gets me about this particular segment is that Riley shows what he seems to think other people are teaching as this perverse thing, notwithstanding his claims about where the eye sockets are pointing or what part of the spine is bending compared to players with the pattern he prefers… that's not what I teach. It's not what Monte teaches. It's not what many of my friends in the coaching/teaching world teach. It may be how some golfers swing… but at the end of the day it's a straw man.

 

Someone should talk to the Mythbusters team about doing a reboot for golf so that time doesn't have to be spent correcting the same falsehoods and misconceptions every few months. 

 

Would think with the number of times RoC has been dealt with along with the "swinger" vs "hitter" tripe people would be tired of bringing them up as reputable instruction. Crazy that a channel that's come up in the current age would be espousing things that are so patently wrong. 

[RayPlan]

5 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Someone should talk to the Mythbusters team about doing a reboot for golf so that time doesn't have to be spent correcting the same falsehoods and misconceptions every few months. 

 

Would think with the number of times RoC has been dealt with along with the "swinger" vs "hitter" tripe people would be tired of bringing them up as reputable instruction. Crazy that a channel that's come up in the current age would be espousing things that are so patently wrong. 

Monte would be a natural fit for a golf Mythbusters host, with his knowledge and sense of humor. Would need a co-host to complement his style.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Would think with the number of times RoC has been dealt with along with the "swinger" vs "hitter" tripe

 

Yes to the first part. To the second part, he tried to re-define them to match what he was trying to communicate. This isn't the TGM "hitter" and "swinger" stuff. Not exactly. FWIW.

[KD1]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

he tried to re-define them to match what he was trying to communicate.

 

He calls it creating "maps"

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

He calls it creating "maps"

The Elite staff belongs in the Jargoneer Hall of Fame.

[RayPlan]

32 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

The Elite staff belongs in the Jargoneer Hall of Fame.

Jason and the Jargonauts

[NosajNeelik]

13 hours ago, RayPlan said:

Jason and the Jargonauts

That stone guy seems a little stiff