USGA and R&A Announce golf ball rollback for everyone!?!?!

[TheMoneyShot]

Good stuff!

 

 

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, TheMoneyShot said:

Good stuff!

 

 

Just two passionate golfers that disagree about the governing body. All good. 

[WesternRacing]

4 hours ago, Nessism said:

Golf will still be fun, even if we are forced to play balls made of playdogh.  What gets people rangled up is that the ruling body is FORCING a change on EVERYONE, just because elite pros hit the ball a ton.  This is BS.  

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Just buy a shiiite ton of the current balls before the changeover.  Problem solved for at least 10 years.  I’ll probably be dead before I run out of what will then be non-conforming Pro V-1s.

[RSinSG]

1 hour ago, WesternRacing said:

Just buy a shiiite ton of the current balls before the changeover.  Problem solved for at least 10 years.

This is me. I pick a range that is in between the 1st and 9th hole. You would be surprised how many ProV1 users have a bad slice. If I didn't have that resource I'd go back to buying used balls from eBay. 

 

But for the record, I think the rule is a solution in search of a problem. 

 

[bekgolf]

14 hours ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Just buy a shiiite ton of the current balls before the changeover.  Problem solved for at least 10 years.  I’ll probably be dead before I run out of what will then be non-conforming Pro V-1s.

 

They are forcing for those of us who keep an index.  We play by the rules no matter how much we disagree with some of the USGA nonsense they contain.

 

I'm really hoping another ruling body pops up so we can rid ourselves of the elitist USGA governance of our Men's and Women's club competitions.  IMO the USGA does not represent the bulk of the membership and it's time for a change.

[WesternRacing]

35 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

They are forcing for those of us who keep an index.  We play by the rules no matter how much we disagree with some of the USGA nonsense they contain.

 

I'm really hoping another ruling body pops up so we can rid ourselves of the elitist USGA governance of our Men's and Women's club competitions.  IMO the USGA does not represent the bulk of the membership and it's time for a change.

 

As others have said on here, you can still keep an index and play the old ball whenever you want to do so.  You don’t have to post scores to maintain a valid index, you just need to maintain a club membership.  If you want to post a score or play in a tournament, switch and play a conforming ball that day.

 

I’m not encouraging people to use the old ball, I just don’t understand all the hand wringing, as everyone will still have the option to do whatever they want.  Don’t like the rule, don’t follow it unless you’re in a tournament.

[chisag]

18 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How the heck did you get that from my reply?🤯  My point was, as if you didn’t know,  is if the 12 cap is short now it’s most likely the contact on the clubface issue….not a rolled back ball.  The post you replied was stating the opposite of how you took it.  Those players you think I said could be the only to enjoy the game would be most affected by the rollback.

 

 I will add…. I’m 68, the age where distance really stops to drop.  Recently I’ve moved up from the tips to the 6600 tees and even sometimes the 6300.  If I get rolled back a few yards or even 20 why would that affect my enjoyment of hitting a solidly struck shot or a well holed putt with the camaraderie of good friends?

 

 

... Just such a crazy issue for such a wide array of opinions. I have said this before but it is like a third category of the glass 50% filled and some view it as half full, others view it is half empty and a the third category views it as Who Stole My Water?!? If a robot swinging 90 mph loses 3 yds with perfect contact, how many yards if any will it lose on mishits, slices and hooks? It's been my experience that most high index and many mid index and even some low index players have a pretty wide range of distance and direction off the tee. 20 to 50 yards is more the norm than the exception. As an instructor of 10 years, one of my good friends has improved with my help, both with his swing and his equipment and has gone from shooting over 100 to shooting in the upper and mid 80's. His drives could be 190 or 230 on any given hole. I just don't see how a rolled back ball will make any difference for his game. 

... And before someone scream elitist, as a + index my drives can have a pretty big spread on any given day. Less on my really good days but I also have days where the tee shot is a bit of a struggle. Living in Phoenix the ball travels a good 10-15 yds farther in summer at 110* than it does in winter at 65*. Should I just quit playing in winter because I am forced to play a Weather Rolled Back ball? 

... I certainly understand the disappointment from those with really high swing speeds that may be affected more than most that play the game. But I could also make the argument they can afford to lose a few yards and drives of 320 instead of 330 isn't really gonna change their scores. 

... I think those of us that fall into the category accepting the new rules and after an initial disappointment know change is a constant. It certainly falls into the words I try and live my life "Happiness isn't getting what you want, but wanting what you get". To be clear I'm not telling anyone how they should feel abut this issue and if you wanna be unhappy have at it. But my enjoyment of the game will continue unabated when the rolled back ball becomes the standard. 

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, WesternRacing said:

 

As others have said on here, you can still keep an index and play the old ball whenever you want to do so.  You don’t have to post scores to maintain a valid index, you just need to maintain a club membership.  If you want to post a score or play in a tournament, switch and play a conforming ball that day.

 

I’m not encouraging people to use the old ball, I just don’t understand all the hand wringing, as everyone will still have the option to do whatever they want.  Don’t like the rule, don’t follow it unless you’re in a tournament.

 

There are different ways to look at it.  I'd like to keep things as they are, most of my rounds are in club competition and everyone has to play by the same rules in order to be fair.  I have to follow all of the rules, even the ones I don't agree with.  

 

I think we agree that it's a solution in search of a problem.

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Just such a crazy issue for such a wide array of opinions. I have said this before but it is like a third category of the glass 50% filled and some view it as half full, others view it is half empty and a the third category views it as Who Stole My Water?!? If a robot swinging 90 mph loses 3 yds with perfect contact, how many yards if any will it lose on mishits, slices and hooks? It's been my experience that most high index and many mid index and even some low index players have a pretty wide range of distance and direction off the tee. 20 to 50 yards is more the norm than the exception. As an instructor of 10 years, one of my good friends has improved with my help, both with his swing and his equipment and has gone from shooting over 100 to shooting in the upper and mid 80's. His drives could be 190 or 230 on any given hole. I just don't see how a rolled back ball will make any difference for his game. 

... And before someone scream elitist, as a + index my drives can have a pretty big spread on any given day. Less on my really good days but I also have days where the tee shot is a bit of a struggle. Living in Phoenix the ball travels a good 10-15 yds farther in summer at 110* than it does in winter at 65*. Should I just quit playing in winter because I am forced to play a Weather Rolled Back ball? 

... I certainly understand the disappointment from those with really high swing speeds that may be affected more than most that play the game. But I could also make the argument they can afford to lose a few yards and drives of 320 instead of 330 isn't really gonna change their scores. 

... I think those of us that fall into the category accepting the new rules and after an initial disappointment know change is a constant. It certainly falls into the words I try and live my life "Happiness isn't getting what you want, but wanting what you get". To be clear I'm not telling anyone how they should feel abut this issue and if you wanna be unhappy have at it. But my enjoyment of the game will continue unabated when the rolled back ball becomes the standard. 

 

AFAIK nobody really knows how the proposed ball will react as it hasn't been made yet.  The only references by pros are that they lost significant distance with a prototype ball.  We don't know if that's the current prototype or an older version.

[hammergolf]

11 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Just such a crazy issue for such a wide array of opinions. I have said this before but it is like a third category of the glass 50% filled and some view it as half full, others view it is half empty and a the third category views it as Who Stole My Water?!? If a robot swinging 90 mph loses 3 yds with perfect contact, how many yards if any will it lose on mishits, slices and hooks? It's been my experience that most high index and many mid index and even some low index players have a pretty wide range of distance and direction off the tee. 20 to 50 yards is more the norm than the exception. As an instructor of 10 years, one of my good friends has improved with my help, both with his swing and his equipment and has gone from shooting over 100 to shooting in the upper and mid 80's. His drives could be 190 or 230 on any given hole. I just don't see how a rolled back ball will make any difference for his game. 

... And before someone scream elitist, as a + index my drives can have a pretty big spread on any given day. Less on my really good days but I also have days where the tee shot is a bit of a struggle. Living in Phoenix the ball travels a good 10-15 yds farther in summer at 110* than it does in winter at 65*. Should I just quit playing in winter because I am forced to play a Weather Rolled Back ball? 

... I certainly understand the disappointment from those with really high swing speeds that may be affected more than most that play the game. But I could also make the argument they can afford to lose a few yards and drives of 320 instead of 330 isn't really gonna change their scores. 

... I think those of us that fall into the category accepting the new rules and after an initial disappointment know change is a constant. It certainly falls into the words I try and live my life "Happiness isn't getting what you want, but wanting what you get". To be clear I'm not telling anyone how they should feel abut this issue and if you wanna be unhappy have at it. But my enjoyment of the game will continue unabated when the rolled back ball becomes the standard. 

Your last sentence says it all. YOUR enjoyment will continue. What about the other 95% that aren’t + or single digit golfers? This is the entire point. If the usga wants to control professional and elite amateur golf, just use the condition of competition rule that they have used before and leave the recreational game alone. Easy

[chisag]

7 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

 

I’m not encouraging people to use the old ball, I just don’t understand all the hand wringing, as everyone will still have the option to do whatever they want.  Don’t like the rule, don’t follow it unless you’re in a tournament.

 

 

... How is this so lost on so many? Playing recreational golf most of the people I get paired up along with my normal group do not follow the rules religiously. I enjoy the challenge and only myself and one of my pards play by all the rules but the others do not and of course nobody cares. So I wonder how many agonizing about the rule change take a breakfast ball off the first tee? Or a mulligan anywhere on the course? Take their ball out of a divot? Carry more than 13 clubs in their bag or have a trainer or sticks in the bag? Roll the ball in the fairway? Move the ball out of a deep un-raked footprint in a bunker? Or a myriad of other rules infractions? If so, just stock up and play the current balls. 

... And of course this ball available now. 




 

[chisag]

3 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Your last sentence says it all. YOUR enjoyment will continue. What about the other 95% that aren’t + or single digit golfers? This is the entire point. If the usga wants to control professional and elite amateur golf, just use the condition of competition rule that they have used before and leave the recreational game alone. Easy

 

 

... I could not agree more and think the USGA should use bifurcation. But it wasn't may call. 

[Pnwpingi210]

47 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... How is this so lost on so many? Playing recreational golf most of the people I get paired up along with my normal group do not follow the rules religiously. I enjoy the challenge and only myself and one of my pards play by all the rules but the others do not and of course nobody cares. So I wonder how many agonizing about the rule change take a breakfast ball off the first tee? Or a mulligan anywhere on the course? Take their ball out of a divot? Carry more than 13 clubs in their bag or have a trainer or sticks in the bag? Roll the ball in the fairway? Move the ball out of a deep un-raked footprint in a bunker? Or a myriad of other rules infractions? If so, just stock up and play the current balls. 

... And of course this ball available now. 




 

Bingo.  You either play by the rules or you don’t.  Theres nothing wrong with playing for fun and not following the rules.  Play for your enjoyment.

[chisag]

7 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Bingo.  You either play by the rules or you don’t.  Theres nothing wrong with playing for fun and not following the rules.  Play for your enjoyment.

 

 

... The irony is I was paired up with a guy that told one of the others in the group it is against the rules to take the ball out of a footprint where some moron walked into the bunker on one side, dug his feet in and hit his sand shot and then without raking walked out the other side. Sorry but you can't move it and it's the Rub Of The Green and when I pointed out he had an Orange Whip in his bag, he said he only uses it before the round and never during the round but doesn't wanna walk all the way back to his car to put it in his trunk. I responded so you only follow the convenient rules? 🙄

... My son sent me a stat that for every hour you play golf, you extend your like by 4.5 minutes. I am guessing that stat didn't take into consideration if you play by all the rules, some of the rules or none of the rules. Right there with you, play for your enjoyment and extend your life. 🤗

[WesternRacing]

42 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Bingo.  You either play by the rules or you don’t.  Theres nothing wrong with playing for fun and not following the rules.  Play for your enjoyment.

 

Actually, pretty easy to do both.  Play by the rules when it matters (tourney and when posting rounds) and don’t when it doesn’t matter (95% of the rounds of recreational golf played in the U.S. each year).  There is no requirement to post every round that you play, and if fact the overwhelming majority of recreational rounds played in the U.S. never make it into the GHIN system.

[WesternRacing]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I could not agree more and think the USGA should use bifurcation. But it wasn't may call. 

 

Didn’t need bifurcation.  They could just freeze the ball where it is today rather than rolling it back.  Then this whole thing would be a nothingburger. 

[chisag]

19 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Didn’t need bifurcation.  They could just freeze the ball where it is today rather than rolling it back.  Then this whole thing would be a nothingburger. 

 

 

... Yup I think that is probably the best solution out of everything that has been suggested. But again, they didn't ask me. Although I think when all is said and done, like the square grooves issue that would destroy the game as we knew it, the rollback will also be a nothing burger. Of course we won't know til we start playing the new ball but I never underestimate the OEMs ability to make changes and get around the speed requirement. "Our new revolutionary mantle and dimple design creates more lift with less spin off the tee resulting in longer drives while maintaining spin and a steeper angle of descent off irons". 

[hammergolf]

It’s a good thing that the R&A back in the 1800’s realized that the players, game, and equipment evolves. If the usga was in charge back then they would force everyone to still play gutta percha and hickory shafts. 

[bekgolf]

10 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

It’s a good thing that the R&A back in the 1800’s realized that the players, game, and equipment evolves. If the usga was in charge back then they would force everyone to still play gutta percha and hickory shafts. 

 

Well, it's what the architects intended the course to be played with, lol.

[gumpy]

You know what would have been awesome, if they forced roll back to the liquid centre wound golf balls. I really miss the feel of them. Ball felt like they stuck to the face of the iron. 

 

Side benefit of these is that it’s pretty damn obvious if the person is using a solid core or not. 

[hammergolf]

1 minute ago, gumpy said:

You know what would have been awesome, if they forced roll back to the liquid centre wound golf balls. I really miss the feel of them. Ball felt like they stuck to the face of the iron. 

 

Side benefit of these is that it’s pretty damn obvious if the person is using a solid core or not. 

From what’s been released, I believe that’s the distance target they are looking for.

[gumpy]

1 minute ago, hammergolf said:

From what’s been released, I believe that’s the distance target they are looking for.

But do you remember their ball flight because they spun so much? The piercing flight that then shot upwards when the ball caught the wind… those were the days… also one miss hit and you need a new ball… 

[hammergolf]

3 minutes ago, gumpy said:

But do you remember their ball flight because they spun so much? The piercing flight that then shot upwards when the ball caught the wind… those were the days… also one miss hit and you need a new ball… 

I do, but no doubt the manufacturers will be able to control the spin. 

[hammergolf]

13 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Well, it's what the architects intended the course to be played with, lol.

There’s been 1000’s of golf course built since those days, lol

Edited June 22 by hammergolf

[bekgolf]

3 minutes ago, gumpy said:

But do you remember their ball flight because they spun so much? The piercing flight that then shot upwards when the ball caught the wind… those were the days… also one miss hit and you need a new ball… 

 

That particular ball flight is what hooked me on golf.  First time on the course at 39 years old I hit a shot that started a little low and then took off like a rocket.  It led to my first par.  Couldn't get enough of that feeling for the next 20 years, now I'm out this season healing and living my golf life vicariously through wrx.  

 

 

[gumpy]

5 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

That particular ball flight is what hooked me on golf.  First time on the course at 39 years old I hit a shot that started a little low and then took off like a rocket.  It led to my first par.  Couldn't get enough of that feeling for the next 20 years, now I'm out this season healing and living my golf life vicariously through wrx.  

 

 

Back when I carried a 3 iron it was the shot I looked forward to most in my round. The 3 iron tee shot on a tight dogleg par 4… 

 

I’d go buy a mizuno 3 iron just for that feeling if the roll back actually mandated a construction change as well. 

 

Hope you get back out there soon. 

Edited June 22 by gumpy

[hammergolf]

2 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

That particular ball flight is what hooked me on golf.  First time on the course at 39 years old I hit a shot that started a little low and then took off like a rocket.  It led to my first par.  Couldn't get enough of that feeling for the next 20 years, now I'm out this season healing and living my golf life vicariously through wrx.  

 

 

Heal up and hope you’re back in the course soon!

[betarhoalphadelta]

19 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Your last sentence says it all. YOUR enjoyment will continue. What about the other 95% that aren’t + or single digit golfers? This is the entire point. If the usga wants to control professional and elite amateur golf, just use the condition of competition rule that they have used before and leave the recreational game alone. Easy

 

19 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I could not agree more and think the USGA should use bifurcation. But it wasn't may call. 

 

The USGA/R&A tried bifurcation. They were going to propose the separate ball be an MLR for elite competition. 

 

The PGA Tour said they weren't going to implement the MLR. (IMHO this was at the behest of the ball OEMs.) Which means that bifurcation rule would only be in place on the tournaments those two ruling bodies control... 

 

The ruling bodies can't force any professional tour to implement bifurcation, so they went forward with the change universally. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

18 hours ago, chisag said:

 

when I pointed out he had an Orange Whip in his bag, he said he only uses it before the round and never during the round but doesn't wanna walk all the way back to his car to put it in his trunk. I responded so you only follow the convenient rules? 🙄
 

 

There's no rule against carrying an Orange Whip or other training aids* in your bag during the round, only against using it once the round starts. It also doesn't count against the 14 club limit*. 

 

Spoiler

* The exception would be a training aid that is also a club--such as an iron with a grip trainer like Scheffler uses pre-round at the range. That is also not illegal to carry during the round as long as it is not used, but it WOULD count against the 14 club limit.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

18 hours ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Didn’t need bifurcation.  They could just freeze the ball where it is today rather than rolling it back.  Then this whole thing would be a nothingburger. 

 

Ummm.... The ball has been frozen since 2003. That was when the current distance rules governing the ball were set.