USGA and R&A Announce golf ball rollback for everyone!?!?!

[Ghostwedge]

18 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... The irony is I was paired up with a guy that told one of the others in the group it is against the rules to take the ball out of a footprint where some moron walked into the bunker on one side, dug his feet in and hit his sand shot and then without raking walked out the other side. Sorry but you can't move it and it's the Rub Of The Green and when I pointed out he had an Orange Whip in his bag, he said he only uses it before the round and never during the round but doesn't wanna walk all the way back to his car to put it in his trunk. I responded so you only follow the convenient rules? 🙄

... My son sent me a stat that for every hour you play golf, you extend your like by 4.5 minutes. I am guessing that stat didn't take into consideration if you play by all the rules, some of the rules or none of the rules. Right there with you, play for your enjoyment and extend your life. 🤗

So I just did the math based on 4 1\2 rounds x 100 per year.....

Over the next 20 years I would live another 4.5 years !

My wife will take this with a slightly disgusted look on her face, think ill keep this news to myself. 👍

 

 

 

[NRJyzr]

39 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Ummm.... The ball has been frozen since 2003. That was when the current distance rules governing the ball were set. 

 

And, what's largely ignored...  that 2003 change to the ODS resulted in the ball being rolled back, albeit slightly.

 

I would add that the ball has been frozen even longer.  The ODS was originally set up in 1976.

 

[DJDJ]

On 6/21/2025 at 5:22 PM, Shilgy said:

Based on the poor contact they most likely make with driver I doubt it will affect them much.  The older low handicap guys will probably see a bigger difference than the type of player you mention.  Swings slower but still hits center would be affected more I would think.

 

And…as I mentioned in the post you replied to all they are really doing is going back to the performance of the balls from 26 and more years ago.  Before the solid balls really took over.

 

 

The problem remains the pros are just going to swing harder.  Most of them aren't at max swing speed now.  they are at the max swing speed for strokes gained.  make the ball go 10 yards less at 120 MPH and they are just going to swing 125.  It won't fix what they are trying to fix unless you make this super punitive.  that's the issue.

[chisag]

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

There's no rule against carrying an Orange Whip or other training aids* in your bag during the round, only against using it once the round starts. It also doesn't count against the 14 club limit*. 

 

 

... This was the Orange Whip with an iron head on the end of it but I did think all training aids weren't allowed in the bag during a tournament. Thanks for the clarification. 

[Nessism]

On 6/22/2025 at 12:27 PM, chisag said:

 

 

... The irony is I was paired up with a guy that told one of the others in the group it is against the rules to take the ball out of a footprint where some moron walked into the bunker on one side, dug his feet in and hit his sand shot and then without raking walked out the other side. Sorry but you can't move it and it's the Rub Of The Green and when I pointed out he had an Orange Whip in his bag, he said he only uses it before the round and never during the round but doesn't wanna walk all the way back to his car to put it in his trunk. I responded so you only follow the convenient rules? 🙄

 

 

Big difference in improving your lie in a bunker, and carrying a training aid in your bag, but never using it.  I won't get into "following the rules when convenient", you know the difference here.

[new2g0lf]

USGA is completely out of touch with reality.  The PGA and PGA Tour should tell the USGA to pound sand and create their own rules and handicap system.  I've belonged to 5 different private golf / country clubs, 98% of the members at these clubs never play the tips.  My current course is 6,800 yards from the tips, we have 5 members that play from that distance, the majority play from 6,000 or less.   Course length isn't a golf problem, it's a PGA Tour problem if it's a problem at all.  All these PGA Tour courses have ultra fast fairways with minimal rough (except Oakmont) they are set up for long distance drives.  It's like when baseball using a "hot" baseball and then complaining about too many home runs being hit.  Set the courses up to punish those who try to rip it and you'll control distance and never have to touch the golf ball.  

[hammergolf]

21 minutes ago, new2g0lf said:

USGA is completely out of touch with reality.  The PGA and PGA Tour should tell the USGA to pound sand and create their own rules and handicap system.  I've belonged to 5 different private golf / country clubs, 98% of the members at these clubs never play the tips.  My current course is 6,800 yards from the tips, we have 5 members that play from that distance, the majority play from 6,000 or less.   Course length isn't a golf problem, it's a PGA Tour problem if it's a problem at all.  All these PGA Tour courses have ultra fast fairways with minimal rough (except Oakmont) they are set up for long distance drives.  It's like when baseball using a "hot" baseball and then complaining about too many home runs being hit.  Set the courses up to punish those who try to rip it and you'll control distance and never have to touch the golf ball.  

Facts!

[shaolingolfer]

With the new balls, we will need to refit the whole bag other than putter.  😨

[bcjim]

3 hours ago, new2g0lf said:

USGA is completely out of touch with reality.  The PGA and PGA Tour should tell the USGA to pound sand and create their own rules and handicap system.  I've belonged to 5 different private golf / country clubs, 98% of the members at these clubs never play the tips.  My current course is 6,800 yards from the tips, we have 5 members that play from that distance, the majority play from 6,000 or less.   Course length isn't a golf problem, it's a PGA Tour problem if it's a problem at all.  All these PGA Tour courses have ultra fast fairways with minimal rough (except Oakmont) they are set up for long distance drives.  It's like when baseball using a "hot" baseball and then complaining about too many home runs being hit.  Set the courses up to punish those who try to rip it and you'll control distance and never have to touch the golf ball.  

Yes.  And the Travelers this past week is proof even short courses can be perfectly fine venues. 

[new2g0lf]

The PGA Tour wants their golfers to bomb the ball, that's why they set up the courses the way they do.  I belonged to a course that the PGA Tour played at, they set up the course with cooperation of our course superintendent.  They wanted the fairways cut down low, the first and second cut shorter than we normally have it and the greens sped up.  They want the illusion that their tour players bomb the ball to showcase how good they are, just like baseball uses a baseball that allows their players to hit more home runs.  The USGA knows these courses are being setup this way, and that it allows them to hit it longer distances so rather than rollback the ball for all of us, why not tell the PGA Tour to change the way the courses are setup so they don't get 50 yards of rollout.  As members we loved playing the course the day after they played, we never had rollout like that before.  When I asked the superintendent about it, he said there's no way they could keep the fairways like that long term as they would burn up.  

 

This whole ball rollback is a farce, not sure if the USGA or R&A are pushing it, but there's definitely something shady going on.  

[sniper]

The USGA “comment period” is such a joke.  They were never going to listen to reason or stats like Lou Stagner often points out.  I do wish PGA Tour/PGA American even LIV would keep the current ball and set rules of play but seems unlikely.  If they pros or elite amateurs have to play a different ball 2-3 times per year so be it. 

[MickeyTankBank]

I'm still not worrying about it for another 5 YEARS

[wfrogge1]

On 6/22/2025 at 2:27 PM, chisag said:

 

 

... The irony is I was paired up with a guy that told one of the others in the group it is against the rules to take the ball out of a footprint where some moron walked into the bunker on one side, dug his feet in and hit his sand shot and then without raking walked out the other side. Sorry but you can't move it and it's the Rub Of The Green and when I pointed out he had an Orange Whip in his bag, he said he only uses it before the round and never during the round but doesn't wanna walk all the way back to his car to put it in his trunk. I responded so you only follow the convenient rules? 🙄

... My son sent me a stat that for every hour you play golf, you extend your like by 4.5 minutes. I am guessing that stat didn't take into consideration if you play by all the rules, some of the rules or none of the rules. Right there with you, play for your enjoyment and extend your life. 🤗

Agree with you up to the Orange Whip part. You can have that in your bag as its not considered a club and it does not impact the 14 club rule. 

FAQs – Orange Whip

[Double Mocha Man]

7 minutes ago, wfrogge1 said:

Agree with you up to the Orange Whip part. You can have that in your bag as its not considered a club and it does not impact the 14 club rule. 

FAQs – Orange Whip

 

One of my golf buddies has an orange whip. I always challenge him to hit a shot with it on the course.

[wfrogge1]

Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

 

One of my golf buddies has an orange whip. I always challenge him to hit a shot with it on the course.

There is a video flying around of Vijay hitting full speed shots with one. Its impressive! 

[Double Mocha Man]

Now, on the other hand, I think an extendable ball retriever should count against your club limit.

[Double Mocha Man]

16 minutes ago, wfrogge1 said:

There is a video flying around of Vijay hitting full speed shots with one. Its impressive! 

 

I just checked it out. Funny stuff. Sent it to my orange whip buddy.

[phizzy30]

On 6/21/2025 at 2:57 PM, Shilgy said:

I’d love to be longer than tour average like JJ! 304.6 on the year is not short.

 

For all of those crying about the rollback you forget a few things….

 

1) many of us grew up playing a ball shorter than the rollback ball will be. So big deal!

 

2)  all this whining about the cor or ct being a matter of inches in difference off the tee doesn’t matter a bit.  All you have to do is to do what the pros have done to hit it longer. Work out! Get fit! Speed train! 
 We had a long drive contest at our member guest this year.  347 won….and the event was held on a slightly uphill hole.

 

3) one post last page(I’m not going to quote it) referred to leaving the fairways cut longer “like the days of yore”.  US Open fairways were cut shorter than the greens most here play and they had very little rollout because of the vast amounts of rain received at Oakmont.   The fairways you play at home today are also likely cut shorter than courses of the 70’s.

 

4) The “short hitter” that won the US Open drove the green at the 312 yard par 4 17th on Sunday. That whole is straight uphill.  Again…that’s not short.

 

Last…. as @Pnwpingi210 has been pointing out it’s not a punishment to go back.  What difference does it make if everyone is playing to the same specs?  Pride gets hurt because you’re shorter than you used to be?  I would bet with a wee bit of training and better contact you’d hit the new ball further than you do now.

 

I’ve been against the rollback as well since it was first announced but am changing my opinion. Mostly based on many of the arguments against it in this and other threads.  The ball is the only logical way to reign in distance.  Smaller driver heads would be a negligible difference.  If you can swing hard with a 3 wood there would be no control worries about a smaller driver heads.

 

So play what you want until 2030. But my guess is if you continue playing the current ball after that you would be scorned as a cheater by your golf pals the same as if one attempted to use the Polara or other hot non conforming balls available today.

 

 

 

I'm just gonna address #2 here.  I'm a personal trainer and have clients that include elite level high school boys, Division I/II men and a client that plays on the PGA Tour of Canada/Korn Ferry Tour.  Speed training/working out only does so much in terms of increasing ss/ball speed.  The most I've squeezed out of a client is 12 mph increase in ball speed.  That's an anomaly.  Average is closer to 5 mph.  I have clients as well that are recreational golfers and their increase in ball speed is actually less than the elite level/pro but that could be due to them having inconsistent swings and not finding the sweet spot often enough.  The roll back will affect all my clients who golf period.  Now the elite level/pro clients will find ways to deal with it it much better than my rec golfers simply because they find the sweet spot way more often.  Those 5-10 yards lost are more devastating to the rec golfer in general.  That is all.  

Edited July 25 by phizzy30

[Shilgy]

13 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm just gonna address #2 here.  I'm a personal trainer and have clients that include elite level high school boys, Division I/II men and a client that plays on the PGA Tour of Canada/Korn Ferry Tour.  Speed training/working out only does so much in terms of increasing ss/ball speed.  The most I've squeezed out of a client is 12 mph increase in ball speed.  That's an anomaly.  Average is closer to 5 mph.  I have clients as well that are recreational golfers and their increase in ball speed is actually less than the elite level/pro but that could be due to them having inconsistent swings and not finding the sweet spot often enough.  The roll back will affect all my clients who golf period.  Now the elite level/pro clients will find ways to deal with it it much better than my rec golfers simply because they find the sweet spot way more often.  Those 5-10 yards lost are more devastating to the rec golfer in general.  That is all.  

So the 5-10 yards lost means they stood still?  The average gain you mentioned is 5 mph which would equate to about 12.5 yards gained….and I believe that carry gain. So maybe average gain for your clients is 15 yards or so.  
  Depending on your “rec” golfers ability I would guess the average guy that mostly misses the middle of the face will lose very little(which is likely why the USGA made the claim we wouldn’t notice a loss).  The better players that do hit is solidly will lose the most I would think.

[phizzy30]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So the 5-10 yards lost means they stood still?  The average gain you mentioned is 5 mph which would equate to about 12.5 yards gained….and I believe that carry gain. So maybe average gain for your clients is 15 yards or so.  
  Depending on your “rec” golfers ability I would guess the average guy that mostly misses the middle of the face will lose very little(which is likely why the USGA made the claim we wouldn’t notice a loss).  The better players that do hit is solidly will lose the most I would think.

Yes, the better players will lose the most distance wise simply due to their higher ss/ball speed, however, they will find a way to deal with it better, IMO, compared to the rec golfers because their ball striking is superior is the point I was trying to make.  

[munichop]

I have suggested this before but I think the core of the ball could be revised to keep the speed for lower swing speed while acting as a governor for tour guys. I expect the ball makers will find a way to say that their golf balls will do that.

[new2g0lf]

9 hours ago, munichop said:

I have suggested this before but I think the core of the ball could be revised to keep the speed for lower swing speed while acting as a governor for tour guys. I expect the ball makers will find a way to say that their golf balls will do that.

I'd like to see the USGA look at carry versus total distance when it comes to this ridiculous rollback ruling.   Carry is a better indicator of how far a golfer can hit the ball compared with how the course is set up and favors bigger hitters.  If a courses fairways run downhill, they are kept tight and dry they can't be upset when someone drives the ball a total distance of 340 yards.