Iron length, the 24/38 rule, and “game improvement”

[Chunkitgood]

This article from 2015 says:

 

“Fast forward to today and despite the improvements in club heads, shafts and grips the 24/38 rule still applies.  The average male golfer still hits a club with 24 degrees of loft and an overall length of 38 inches, 170 yards.”

 

https://golfinmykingdom.com/tag/2438-rule/

 

This suggests all the “game improvement” to that date was perhaps illusory.  But the article is from ancient times (2015) and not exactly data heavy.

 

So, I looked and found this article updated in 2021.  It says the “mid length” male golfer hits his 4 iron 170 yards.

 

https://golfbit.com/golf-club-distances-averages-chart

 

But wait.  Are there any 4 irons in production with as much as 24 degrees of left?  Most seem to have less with 4 irons approaching 20 degrees.   This article suggests 20.5 is about the norm.
 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/the-game/what-are-the-degree-loft-of-golf-clubs-204141

 

Which implies all the “game improvement” has resulted in the average golfer hitting clubs of a given loft a shorter distance, not a longer one, since now it takes a 20.5 degree 4 iron to do what a 24 degree club used to do.

 

But that’s not the question.  The question is, even if they had made clubs that allowed the average golfer to hit his 24 degree iron 200 yards, or, as people will tell you “game improvement” has done, just given him something like a better descent angle, what exactly would that have accomplished?  If you took the same average slow swinging, scooping (aka sweeping or picking on this forum), flipping male golfer and turned the results of his slow, scoopy, flippy shots into more GIR’s, what exactly have you accomplished?  Other than removed any incentive to actually get better?

 

“Game improvement” seems to be a failure in pursuit of a mistake.

[bigred90gt]

23 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

 If you took the same average slow swinging, scooping (aka sweeping or picking on this forum), flipping male golfer and turned the results of his slow, scoopy, flippy shots into more GIR’s, what exactly have you accomplished?  

I'll bite:

 

More GIR typically equals lower score. So, you have taken that same average slow swinging, scooping flipping male golfer and turned the results of his slow scoopy flippy shots into lower scores. 

 

99% of the people that play the game play to have fun. Lower scores equals more fun, almost across the board. Not everyone has the desire or time to spend practicing the multiple times per week it takes to improve their game any significant amount, so if improved club technology equals more GIR, then mission accomplished. For a lot of people, golf is not about the competition and the constant drive to improve their ball striking abilities. It is simply about being outside and hitting a ball, usually with friends and/or family. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by bigred90gt

[Feelingofgreatness]

Are we talking about "average shot" or "best shot"?

 

GI irons excel when you hit the club all over the face. Out of the middle, it's probably fairly close.

 

 

[rsballer10]

44 minutes ago, bigred90gt said:

I'll bite:

 

More GIR typically equals lower score. So, you have taken that same average slow swinging, scooping flipping male golfer and turned the results of his slow scoopy flippy shots into lower scores. 

 

99% of the people that play the game play to have fun. Lower scores equals more fun, almost across the board. Not everyone has the desire or time to spend practicing the multiple times per week it takes to improve their game any significant amount, so if improved club technology equals more GIR, then mission accomplished. For a lot of people, golf is not about the competition and the constant drive to improve their ball striking abilities. It is simply about being outside and hitting a ball, usually with friends and/or family. 

 

I'll bite as well. OP is making a binary argument about game improvement irons, about whether they are "good" or "bad" for the average golfer. I've seen low skilled players that are super steep with a closed face and tons of shaft lean. I've also seen super flippy open faced players of low skill. One will benefit from strong lofted GI irons, the other won't.

 

Different irons are neither good or bad. It all comes down to fitting, and it's never hurt to have all kinds of different options. 

[Ger21]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

Are there any 4 irons in production with as much as 24 degrees of loft?

Lots of blades and forged CB's. Cobra forged CB/MB, Titliest 620 CB/MB, and others in that class.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

as people will tell you “game improvement” has done

 

Sounds like you're listening to the wrong people and your perception of "Game Improvement" is wildly distorted because of that.  "Game Improvement" has never been about increasing distance (except maybe being a bit more forgiving in the amount of distance lost for off center hits).   It's really only about forgiveness, nothing else.    A somewhat decent (although limited) solution to a real problem.

 

Loft creep (or what Tom Wishon refereed to as "the vanishing loft disease")  is something completely different from the GI concept.  Yes the marketing folks like to combine and confuse the concepts - but they really are two different things.   Loft creep is entirely about just making certain irons in the set play play longer.  Specifically the iron an individual more likely to demo to see if they want to buy a new iron.  It's not about making all irons uniformly longer throughout the whole set.  The only problem it's trying to address is market share and sales figures.  Both for irons and the hybrids needed because you can't hit the longer irons any more.

 

And BTW - the 24/38 rule is not even really about distance - it's a "rule" that says most amateurs don't have the skill to play an iron that's lower lofted than 24* or longer than 38".  A rule that's supposed to be used (in conjunction with actual testing) to figure out what the longest iron in the set should be for any individual.

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Stuart_G