Do Not Pull On the Club from the Top of the Backswing...Stop the Handle Late In Downswing.

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

We will have to disagree on the car one, I see a drag race as acceleration from a stopped position. Mine is acceleration, slowing,

adjusting and then acceleration again.

 

Backswing transition delivery in a fluid motion.

 

No real difference; I was just isolating downswing, as was that graph. I.e. starting from the instantaneous point in transition where the club has stopped its motion. 

 

Having spent some time on a racetrack on a motorcycle, doing decently-powerful indoor karting, and having spent a huge portion of my time playing Gran Turismo, now I better understand what you're saying about apexing a corner. Understanding that point where you can go from braking into a corner, and when you can get accelerating, is important. Accelerate too early or too hard, and it's bad news... 

 

I wish I'd learned that lesson before highsiding my bike at 75 mph at the Streets of Willow... That was a lot more painful than sending driver OB 😂

[MPStrat]

54 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Aye and I and others mention feels all the time and how they differ from person to person, I and no one I have seen has said how much it goes down and that there is a universal amount

 

Strat has consistently been a negative commentator on lowering of the arms but because he faces actually factual data, and tbh common sense that he cannot dispute, he just can't commit to accepting his original ideas were incorrect.

 

 

 

 

 
The factual data that the net force in most pros is not downward? 

[Hilts1969]

44 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 
The factual data that the net force in most pros is not downward? 

 

Net force haha 

[MonteScheinblum]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1ZAx5RvVWT/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

[getitdaily]

52 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1ZAx5RvVWT/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

I've seen Japanese game shows before. That dude better watch out. Won't be long before that bag gets up and starts whipping him.

[Soloman1]

He’s Korean.

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

He’s Korean.

Wondered who’d say it first. I love the Koreans, their food, their culture and their epic tv dramas…..and their enthusiasm for golf…..and kimchi.

Edited January 30, 2024 by virtuoso

[Hilts1969]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1ZAx5RvVWT/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

 

That Korean gravity is strong he just cant keep his arms up no matter how hard he tries, no wonder he put that bag there to stop his club smashing into the ground:-)

[Righty to Lefty]

You use the body to stop/stall the handle end of the club to catapult the club head forward.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Righty to Lefty

[getitdaily]

34 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You use the body to stop/stall the handle end of the club to catapult the club head forward.

You're getting closer...

 

At least now you've realized that braking force is the body pushing up and AWAY from the target.

 

Now, we gotta find a video for you to hear that 'stopping the handle' is false. It's not even a valid feel. The handle very much keeps moving. The clubhead overtakes the handle but the handle keeps moving.

Edited January 30, 2024 by getitdaily

[Tanner25]

Someone will hurt their lead knee, abruptly stopping it at impact.

[johnrobison]

53 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You use the body to stop/stall the handle end of the club to catapult the club head forward.

This is about the (primarily) vertical force in the (primarily) lead leg. It's easy to call it braking because of how it feels but, as has been said already, there's no stopping or stalling. In fact, the more momentum generated by the arms and hands, the more force required by the lead leg to counteract it. Despite what you feel, the handle keeps going - and fast.

 

And can you see how VERY different this is from what you demonstrated with the Tsunami Bar?

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

This is about the (primarily) vertical force in the (primarily) lead leg. It's easy to call it braking because of how it feels but, as has been said already, there's no stopping or stalling. In fact, the more momentum generated by the arms and hands, the more force required by the lead leg to counteract it. Despite what you feel, the handle keeps going - and fast.

 

And can you see how VERY different this is from what you demonstrated with the Tsunami Bar?

So fast, that, if you do it right, you actually swing faster.

[virtuoso]

Releasing the club out to the ball in the right sequence is the mechanism that slows the handle down just the right amount. Doing it in the reverse and trying to use artificial Sphinx Handle Stoppage to produce clubhead throw out, is completely a**-backwards, inefficient, slow, sloppy, and pretty painful and injurious if attempted with any kind of foolish commitment.

Edited January 30, 2024 by virtuoso

[swh0507]

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You use the body to stop/stall the handle end of the club to catapult the club head forward.

Maybe we are dealing with AI here? I think we should confuse it like in Wargames

 

 

Maybe the Rory video will work. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4dnH4shVac/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

I mean, he is both Pulling on the handle and braking!!!!!  😂😂😂

[johnrobison]

32 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Sphinx Handle Stoppage

🤣🤣🤣

[Soloman1]

The clubhead catching up to the handle is a better descriptor.

 

Otherwise, you’re the title of an old TV series about a dolphin.

 

[iacas]

48 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Releasing the club out to the ball in the right sequence is the mechanism that slows the handle down just the right amount. Doing it in the reverse and trying to use artificial Sphinx Handle Stoppage to produce clubhead throw out, is completely a**-backwards, inefficient, slow, sloppy, and pretty painful and injurious if attempted with any kind of foolish commitment.

Exactly. But this is what happens when you both don’t understand physics and think that your feel is real.

 

As soon as someone says “effortless” in a video I almost write that off as entirely a feel video and not at all a real video. The golf swing takes tremendous effort. We have all made swings that feel like they take less but do some speed training and tell me it doesn’t take effort.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

The clubhead catching up to the handle is a better descriptor.

 

Otherwise, you’re the title of an old TV series about a dolphin.

 

Yeah. 🐬

 

A golfer could keep accelerating the hands longer into the downswing (given range of motion constraints) but then the club would never line up in time and would continue to trail behind and you could never hit the ground.

 

That’s a bit of why Mach 3 talks about “speed out in front” - don’t have to hit a ball but are encouraging muscles to fire longer and faster.

[Zitlow]

The golf swing should a sequential athletic motion. The correct sequence is like a punch. Shoulder, arm and hand from the ground up.

 

Where a lot of people mess up in golf is by casting (early release), lengthening the radius too early. They flip, EE and no shaft lean.  

 

 

From the ground up. Lower body, upper body, right shoulder, arm and hand. The right arm unfolds behind the shift not in front of the shift. 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2024 by Zitlow

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

The golf swing should a sequential athletic motion. The correct sequence is like a punch. Shoulder, arm and hand from the ground up.

 

Yes, it should be a sequential athletic motion. But as with a lot of things, there has to be a TON of learning before you can achieve a sequential athletic motion. Throwing a punch with power is NOT a natural thing. 

 

I spent ages 11-18 doing martial arts, including being an assistant instructor once I reached brown belt (about age 13-14) and leading classes solo when I hit black belt (age 15).

 

Teaching a punch to someone who doesn't know it is like teaching a kid in tee ball to throw. Start by taking a step with your left foot. Point with your left hand while your right is by your right hip. Punch with the right, turning the right heel out at the end, while the left hand draws back. Repeat, over and over and over. 

 

That's how you teach the kinematic sequence of getting the hips to generate power for the punch, even if (as you know) nobody will EVER throw a punch like that in a fight. You start there before you get anywhere near trying to throw a punch from a fighting stance. 

[johnrobison]

33 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yes, it should be a sequential athletic motion. But as with a lot of things, there has to be a TON of learning before you can achieve a sequential athletic motion. Throwing a punch with power is NOT a natural thing. 

 

I spent ages 11-18 doing martial arts, including being an assistant instructor once I reached brown belt (about age 13-14) and leading classes solo when I hit black belt (age 15).

 

Teaching a punch to someone who doesn't know it is like teaching a kid in tee ball to throw. Start by taking a step with your left foot. Point with your left hand while your right is by your right hip. Punch with the right, turning the right heel out at the end, while the left hand draws back. Repeat, over and over and over. 

 

That's how you teach the kinematic sequence of getting the hips to generate power for the punch, even if (as you know) nobody will EVER throw a punch like that in a fight. You start there before you get anywhere near trying to throw a punch from a fighting stance. 

Sounds like you're overthinking it. If you just have a relaxed mind and arm, the punch will happen naturally 😉

[DShepley]

50 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

Where a lot of people mess up in golf is by casting (early release), lengthening the radius too early. They flip, EE and no shaft lean.

Nope! People cast (early release) as a reaction to a club head that is out of position.  They have to 'cast', lengthen to radius, flipp, EE, No Shaft Lean, in order for the club head to find the ball.  IF 'a lot of people' DIDN'T do those things from the poor position they have gotten themselves into, they would miss the ball, (likely swing right over top of it), and no skeleton suit in the world is going to change that.

[GoGoErky]

4 minutes ago, DShepley said:

Nope! People cast (early release) as a reaction to a club head that is out of position.  They have to 'cast', lengthen to radius, flipp, EE, No Shaft Lean, in order for the club head to find the ball.  IF 'a lot of people' DIDN'T do those things from the poor position they have gotten themselves into, they would miss the ball, (likely swing right over top of it), and no skeleton suit in the world is going to change that.

But the cast is what’s supposed to happen. Monte talks about it here. It’s the turn part that causes issues, whether it’s because of bad wrist hinge, improper use of the hips or combo of that and other issues

 

 

Edited January 30, 2024 by GoGoErky

[DShepley]

4 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

But the cast is what’s supposed to happen. Monte talks about it here. It’s the turn part that causes issues, whether it’s because of bad wrist hinge, improper use of the hips or combo of that and other issues

Monte's cast, (I don't want to put words in his mouth), is to get the club head in the right position.  It's done before the shoulders open.  A lot of people open their shoulders at the top before they lower their arms which moves them closer to the ball.  This is the club head out of position bit I was referring to. When the arms stay up and the shoulders spin open, the hands get closer to the ball and the ONLY way to get the club on it is to EE, dump angles, stand the shaft up and roll the clubface over.  You don't even have to think about these things, your body just does it because your brain wants to get the club face on the ball.  

[Zitlow]

If you guys want to cast the club that's fine with me, The golf swing is also like throwing a baseball. Shoulder, arm and hand, Not hand, arm and shoulder. 

 

 

 

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

If you guys want to cast the club that's fine with me, The golf swing is also like throwing a baseball. Shoulder, arm and hand, Not hand, arm and shoulder. 

 

 

 

Aren't your internal Mike Austin and internal Mac O'Grady quarreling quite a bit inside your head?

[Hilts1969]

2 hours ago, swh0507 said:

Maybe we are dealing with AI here? I think we should confuse it like in Wargames

 

 

Maybe the Rory video will work. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4dnH4shVac/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

I mean, he is both Pulling on the handle and braking!!!!!  😂😂😂

 

The really interesting thing about that apart from the lowering of his arms is his left foot, even on a drill look at the heel movement. Look how early it raises and how early it seems to plant.

 

Wish I had the ability to pause it at the moment it raises and the moment it lands.

[MonteScheinblum]

18 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Aren't your internal Mike Austin and internal Mac O'Grady quarreling quite a bit inside your head?

Read the comment by mgswings…..lol.  You can’t make this up.  It cracks me up when trolling me supersedes everything.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2nwbRIPaIf/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

[Zitlow]

Those needing swing thoughts can always refer to the Official GolfWRX Instructor's Guide.