Senior flex isn't just for seniors anymore . . .

[e-man]

I've posted a few topics lately about recent fitting experience.  A little about me.  56 years old (so not quite a senior, I think), current 5.9 index (typically mid-4s during the peak of the season), 90mph or so swing speed with the driver, 74-75 mph with the 7 iron, pretty smooth transition. 

 

I went to PXG for a fitting recently.  Initially, I was fit into 0311p, MMT 70r shafts (73g).  They felt fine, but just fine.  Numbers were decent, feel was lacking.  The fitter had me come back a week later to try the same shaft with some different weights to see if he could increase feel.  We did this all blind, so I wouldn't know what he was doing and would really be able to focus on feel.  Without me knowing, he slipped in the MMT 60a shaft (62g, senior flex).  First shot, wow, that felt great.  As did shots, 2-10.  The numbers were excellent.  He then told me what he did.  I was totally surprised, almost in disbelief, and then denial set in and I said I couldn't possibly go in that direction.

 

Fast forward to yesterday.  I currently own two G425 hybrids, both with the Ping Alta CB 70 reg flex.  I hit them well, but again, they lack feel to me, and the shaft only seems to kick when I really go after it.  On a whim, I bought two Alta CB SR flex hybrid shaft off of ebay.  Ping says that SR stands for soft regular.  Others think it stands for senior.  Anyway, I popped them in to the hybrid heads last night and headed to the simulator.  First impression when I tested the flexibility of the shaft by pushing on it was that it didn't feel that flexible to me.  I mean, yeah, it had some bend, but not much different than other regular flex shafts I've played over the years from other manufacturers.  Anyway, long story short, I hit them great.  The feel was outstanding. Launch was up, ball speed was up, distance was up, dispersIon was very good.  I was hitting the 4 on average 175 carry, 182 or so with roll out, and the 3 185 carry, 194 or so with roll out.

 

Kind of an eye opening experience.  First, there is no standard for shaft flex.  One company's reg is another company's stiff.  I don't know if I will buy the 0311P with the MMT 60a shafts, but this little exercise shows me that the fit probably wasn't too far off.  Again, 75 mph 7-iron, 90 mph driver.  Should be regular flex all day.  It must be my smooth transition that is fitting me into senior, SR, or whatever you want to call it. 

[Sean124]

Call it (S)uper (R)egular and (A)wesome if it gets you to play the right shaft

[ahenderX]

1 hour ago, e-man said:

I've posted a few topics lately about recent fitting experience.  A little about me.  56 years old (so not quite a senior, I think), current 5.9 index (typically mid-4s during the peak of the season), 90mph or so swing speed with the driver, 74-75 mph with the 7 iron, pretty smooth transition. 

 

I went to PXG for a fitting recently.  Initially, I was fit into 0311p, MMT 70r shafts (73g).  They felt fine, but just fine.  Numbers were decent, feel was lacking.  The fitter had me come back a week later to try the same shaft with some different weights to see if he could increase feel.  We did this all blind, so I wouldn't know what he was doing and would really be able to focus on feel.  Without me knowing, he slipped in the MMT 60a shaft (62g, senior flex).  First shot, wow, that felt great.  As did shots, 2-10.  The numbers were excellent.  He then told me what he did.  I was totally surprised, almost in disbelief, and then denial set in and I said I couldn't possibly go in that direction.

 

Fast forward to yesterday.  I currently own two G425 hybrids, both with the Ping Alta CB 70 reg flex.  I hit them well, but again, they lack feel to me, and the shaft only seems to kick when I really go after it.  On a whim, I bought two Alta CB SR flex hybrid shaft off of ebay.  Ping says that SR stands for soft regular.  Others think it stands for senior.  Anyway, I popped them in to the hybrid heads last night and headed to the simulator.  First impression when I tested the flexibility of the shaft by pushing on it was that it didn't feel that flexible to me.  I mean, yeah, it had some bend, but not much different than other regular flex shafts I've played over the years from other manufacturers.  Anyway, long story short, I hit them great.  The feel was outstanding. Launch was up, ball speed was up, distance was up, dispersIon was very good.  I was hitting the 4 on average 175 carry, 182 or so with roll out, and the 3 185 carry, 194 or so with roll out.

 

Kind of an eye opening experience.  First, there is no standard for shaft flex.  One company's reg is another company's stiff.  I don't know if I will buy the 0311P with the MMT 60a shafts, but this little exercise shows me that the fit probably wasn't too far off.  Again, 75 mph 7-iron, 90 mph driver.  Should be regular flex all day.  It must be my smooth transition that is fitting me into senior, SR, or whatever you want to call it. 

That’s what I like about shopping shafts at Golfworks. It’s not like a fitting, but one can ask questions on how shaft A regular flex compares to shaft B regular flex. If I recall correctly, they have flex data on 1,500 shafts.

[Ger21]

1 hour ago, e-man said:

First impression when I tested the flexibility of the shaft by pushing on it was that it didn't feel that flexible to me.  I mean, yeah, it had some bend, but not much different than other regular flex shafts I've played over the years from other manufacturers.

 

There's really not a whole lot of difference when moving one flex. Not nearly as much as people think.

[ChipNRun]

Played for about four seasons with Cobra Flyz Z 3H and 4H; shaft was a 73-gram Matrix VLCT Light flex (senior shaft). It was about 5-7 grams heavier than other OEM's R-flex, but it just worked.

 

Then one day, the FlyZ pair started feeling a little heavy; I switched over to single Callaway OSize 4H with Recoil ES460 F2, 63 grams. (It is the only senior flex shaft in the bag; a little wispy at times but works well when I need a smooth shot).

 

As per Ger21 above, sometimes you get an overlap effect,weight vs. flex.

Edited January 12, 2024 by ChipNRun

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, e-man said:

I've posted a few topics lately about recent fitting experience.  A little about me.  56 years old (so not quite a senior, I think), current 5.9 index (typically mid-4s during the peak of the season), 90mph or so swing speed with the driver, 74-75 mph with the 7 iron, pretty smooth transition. 

 

I went to PXG for a fitting recently.  Initially, I was fit into 0311p, MMT 70r shafts (73g).  They felt fine, but just fine.  Numbers were decent, feel was lacking.  The fitter had me come back a week later to try the same shaft with some different weights to see if he could increase feel.  We did this all blind, so I wouldn't know what he was doing and would really be able to focus on feel.  Without me knowing, he slipped in the MMT 60a shaft (62g, senior flex).  First shot, wow, that felt great.  As did shots, 2-10.  The numbers were excellent.  He then told me what he did.  I was totally surprised, almost in disbelief, and then denial set in and I said I couldn't possibly go in that direction.

 

Fast forward to yesterday.  I currently own two G425 hybrids, both with the Ping Alta CB 70 reg flex.  I hit them well, but again, they lack feel to me, and the shaft only seems to kick when I really go after it.  On a whim, I bought two Alta CB SR flex hybrid shaft off of ebay.  Ping says that SR stands for soft regular.  Others think it stands for senior.  Anyway, I popped them in to the hybrid heads last night and headed to the simulator.  First impression when I tested the flexibility of the shaft by pushing on it was that it didn't feel that flexible to me.  I mean, yeah, it had some bend, but not much different than other regular flex shafts I've played over the years from other manufacturers.  Anyway, long story short, I hit them great.  The feel was outstanding. Launch was up, ball speed was up, distance was up, dispersIon was very good.  I was hitting the 4 on average 175 carry, 182 or so with roll out, and the 3 185 carry, 194 or so with roll out.

 

Kind of an eye opening experience.  First, there is no standard for shaft flex.  One company's reg is another company's stiff.  I don't know if I will buy the 0311P with the MMT 60a shafts, but this little exercise shows me that the fit probably wasn't too far off.  Again, 75 mph 7-iron, 90 mph driver.  Should be regular flex all day.  It must be my smooth transition that is fitting me into senior, SR, or whatever you want to call it. 

LOL... flex letters has no standard as you say, but its quite psychological and EGO based, and DONT blame the OEMS for that, its a Men's thing.... 

One of the most popular graphite shafts on the tour ever, was the original Grafalloy BLUE, a "monster stiff" model compared to its flex labels. Even many of the tour players "should NOT" play the S flex model, it was simply too stiff for them, but there was no way they would play a shaft with the flex label R, so Grafalloy had to "please them" and made a series of R flex shaft, with the label S* where the * told the insiders it was a R flex.

Fast forward, one of the biggest and most expensive hypes the latest years has been AUTOFLEX shafts.
They are silly soft vs label, where even XX flex is softer than most R flex shafts but performance is outstanding....

How can that be?

Its because feel of flex is a TRIGGER for how we load and release the shaft
If flex feels "stiff" we will use more power to make it feel right
If flex feels "soft" we will use less power and focus in swing tech ....

A good club fitter knows this, but the challenge is still the players EGO,  where flex labels is a "testosterone label", but the moment we dont give a sh...about the label, but go by feel and performance, most players would play SOFTER shafts and improve their game.

Take a peak into my DIY driver tune up, and scroll down to post #8 and read about VISUAL FITTING where we use club specs to tweak the players swing. That should be done both for Total wgt, shaft weight, EI profile, over all flex and head wgt, and we can SEE club specs when the player swing the club by knowing what to look for, and tune his swing into perfection this way.

So, go by what feels good and works good, even if its PINK colored shaft with Ladies flex label
Yes thats right, look up all those treads where the man in the house took his wifes driver and had the best driving session of his life, and was flabbergasted with the question how can that be so?
Autoflex shafts for 600 USD each is made with that knowledge in mind.
 

 

[Kwalldo43]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:27 PM, Howard_Jones said:

LOL... flex letters has no standard as you say, but its quite psychological and EGO based, and DONT blame the OEMS for that, its a Men's thing.... 

One of the most popular graphite shafts on the tour ever, was the original Grafalloy BLUE, a "monster stiff" model compared to its flex labels. Even many of the tour players "should NOT" play the S flex model, it was simply too stiff for them, but there was no way they would play a shaft with the flex label R, so Grafalloy had to "please them" and made a series of R flex shaft, with the label S* where the * told the insiders it was a R flex.

Fast forward, one of the biggest and most expensive hypes the latest years has been AUTOFLEX shafts.
They are silly soft vs label, where even XX flex is softer than most R flex shafts but performance is outstanding....

How can that be?

Its because feel of flex is a TRIGGER for how we load and release the shaft
If flex feels "stiff" we will use more power to make it feel right
If flex feels "soft" we will use less power and focus in swing tech ....

A good club fitter knows this, but the challenge is still the players EGO,  where flex labels is a "testosterone label", but the moment we dont give a sh...about the label, but go by feel and performance, most players would play SOFTER shafts and improve their game.

Take a peak into my DIY driver tune up, and scroll down to post #8 and read about VISUAL FITTING where we use club specs to tweak the players swing. That should be done both for Total wgt, shaft weight, EI profile, over all flex and head wgt, and we can SEE club specs when the player swing the club by knowing what to look for, and tune his swing into perfection this way.

So, go by what feels good and works good, even if its PINK colored shaft with Ladies flex label
Yes thats right, look up all those treads where the man in the house took his wifes driver and had the best driving session of his life, and was flabbergasted with the question how can that be so?
Autoflex shafts for 600 USD each is made with that knowledge in mind.
 

 

Any specific reason you recommend the graffaloy blue? Is it a better profile for a softer flex? Or will any senior flex work? I’m not a super fast swinger at 105-108 but prefer the feel of a shaft loading and am really curious about trying senior flex. 

[Johnny Biarritz]

Around 2007 I did a club fitter training. Saw a Nationwide Tour player fitted for a Senior flex shaft. His swing speed was in the 120mph range but he had a super smooth swing. He picked up 15-20 yards and lost no control.

[Howard_Jones]

19 minutes ago, Kwalldo43 said:

Any specific reason you recommend the graffaloy blue? Is it a better profile for a softer flex? Or will any senior flex work? I’m not a super fast swinger at 105-108 but prefer the feel of a shaft loading and am really curious about trying senior flex. 

Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue has been in production for 20 years and still is.....there might be a reason for that.

Another reader picked up the ProLaunch blue 45 with senior flex.
 

 

Edited July 10 by Howard_Jones

[SEP1006]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:27 PM, Howard_Jones said:

Fast forward, one of the biggest and most expensive hypes the latest years has been AUTOFLEX shafts.
They are silly soft vs label, where even XX flex is softer than most R flex shafts but performance is outstanding....

 

 

Been playing the AF since it came out. Easily the best shaft by far for my swing. Just for reference I am 68 but in great physical shape, have always worked out. Driver SS hovers around 95ish. Also for a few years now I've been playing the Evenflow Riptide CB Ladies flex at 40 grams in my 5/7 woods. Also works VERY WELL for me. I don't care if the shaft had pink flowers on it and played "Mary had a little lamb" when I hit it. If it works it works, golf is hard so make it as easy as possible.

 

 

[me05501]

It seems like today's graphite shafts are designed better and manufactured more consistently than ever. Even if you are really loading a shaft it is likely to respond in a predictable way. Much better than 30 years ago.