Bounce is Your Friend on Partial Wedge Shots and Engaging the Turf Prior to the Ball is a Good Thing When Hitting Them

[iacas]

11 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Please expound. Can a robot be setup to hit the ball perfect even?  I measure every shot that I hit in the exact same way.

 

There's nothing to expound on. Most likely I have a stricter definition for "solid" than you. You would probably call this solid:

 

 

I would probably say "toed it a little" and Hogan, for all we know, would have been disgusted.

 

11 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

There is nothing else to demand out of any given shot if these things are intact. The only thing left is to develop a baseline physically so that hopefully I can relentlessly repeat a given shot.

 

This is where it just doesn't add up.

 

• You're a Hogan-level ball striker (even though he says he hits like 2 good shots a round and you'd quit golf if you did that).
• You lose all of your shots around the greens due to your theories (as yet not demonstrated) on hitting well behind the ball inside of about 120 yards.
• You may or may not be the world's worst putter. We don't know.

 

Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. Again, I think my definition of "solid" is just different than yours. As was Hogan's. (And I'm miles from Hogan, so don't misread that.)

 

11 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

This is maxed out pretty much: 

 

So, you shank one ball and top the other. And to be clear, these are wiffle balls off carpet.

 

 

This shows us what, exactly?

 

Where's Ashton Kutcher?

 

Edited February 1, 2024 by iacas
clarity

[xabia]

true performance art going on here! bravo on your commitment to the bit 👌

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

There's nothing to expound on. Most likely I have a stricter definition for "solid" than you. You would probably call this solid:

 

 

I would probably say "toed it a little" and Hogan, for all we know, would have been disgusted.

 

 

This is where it just doesn't add up.

 

• You're a Hogan-level ball striker (even though he says he hits like 2 good shots a round and you'd quit golf if you did that).
• You lose all of your shots around the greens due to your theories (as yet not demonstrated) on hitting well behind the ball inside of about 120 yards.
• You may or may not be the world's worst putter. We don't know.

 

Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. Again, I think my definition of "solid" is just different than yours. As was Hogan's. (And I'm miles from Hogan, so don't misread that.)

 

 

So, you shank one ball and top the other. And to be clear, these are wiffle balls off carpet.

 

 

This shows us what, exactly?

 

Where's Ashton Kutcher?

 

Certainly makes you wonder what’s holding him back from dominating on tour. 🤣

[JayMas]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

There's nothing to expound on. Most likely I have a stricter definition for "solid" than you. You would probably call this solid:

 

 

I would probably say "toed it a little" and Hogan, for all we know, would have been disgusted.

 

 

This is where it just doesn't add up.

 

• You're a Hogan-level ball striker (even though he says he hits like 2 good shots a round and you'd quit golf if you did that).
• You lose all of your shots around the greens due to your theories (as yet not demonstrated) on hitting well behind the ball inside of about 120 yards.
• You may or may not be the world's worst putter. We don't know.

 

Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. Again, I think my definition of "solid" is just different than yours. As was Hogan's. (And I'm miles from Hogan, so don't misread that.)

 

 

So, you shank one ball and top the other. And to be clear, these are wiffle balls off carpet.

 

 

This shows us what, exactly?

 

Where's Ashton Kutcher?

 

Stills from the video were a real 😂. Thought the back one looked like a shank in real time.

 

I too, would love to know what the wiffle ball shank/top is meant to show us.

Edited February 1, 2024 by JayMas

[iacas]

41 minutes ago, JayMas said:

I too, would love to know what the wiffle ball shank/top is meant to show us.

 

I'm just waiting to hear whether either meets his definition of "solid."

[JayMas]

40 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I'm just waiting to hear whether either meets his definition of "solid."

Well, that's just a whole other road that's opened up, and who knows where it takes us.

 

I'm invested though. The entertainment value is top notch.

[MattC555]

Is it bad that I don't want this to end? 

[Shilgy]

7 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

Is it bad that I don't want this to end? 

It’s like watching nascar for the crashes.🙄

 

About to use the bounce…..

[MattC555]

The more time I spend here the less time I have to blow money in the BST.  For my own good this thread must continue!

[PedronNiall]

Copped from another thread. Yet another example showing that using the bounce properly does not entail engaging the turf well behind the ball. Just putting this here for future generations.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqvDUqLAmqF/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

[Valtiel]

13 hours ago, MattC555 said:

The more time I spend here the less time I have to blow money in the BST.  For my own good this thread must continue!

Amen. And that handicap you've listed at ~0? Spend enough time here and you can get that all the way up to at *least* a 5.

[GolfTurkey]

And I suspect not even an average of 5, like this one time at band camp I was on a heater with my putter for 3 weeks and briefly got down to 5

[iacas]

9 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Copped from another thread. Yet another example showing that using the bounce properly does not entail engaging the turf well behind the ball. Just putting this here for future generations.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqvDUqLAmqF/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

 

That guy doesn't know what he's doing: he clearly hit both balls pretty well. He didn't shank one and then top the other. Plus, he hit real golf balls off real grass, not wiffle balls off a carpet. Can't trust that.

[swh0507]

3 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

And I suspect not even an average of 5, like this one time at band camp I was on a heater with my putter for 3 weeks and briefly got down to 5

At first, I thought this comment was hilarious. And then I started really thinking about it.............

 

[Avidswampthing66]

I’m just going to drop this lil nugget by the wedge GOAT.  

[Righty to Lefty]

On 2/1/2024 at 7:07 AM, iacas said:

 

There's nothing to expound on. Most likely I have a stricter definition for "solid" than you. You would probably call this solid:

 

 

I would probably say "toed it a little" and Hogan, for all we know, would have been disgusted.

 

 

This is where it just doesn't add up.

 

• You're a Hogan-level ball striker (even though he says he hits like 2 good shots a round and you'd quit golf if you did that).
• You lose all of your shots around the greens due to your theories (as yet not demonstrated) on hitting well behind the ball inside of about 120 yards.
• You may or may not be the world's worst putter. We don't know.

 

Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. Again, I think my definition of "solid" is just different than yours. As was Hogan's. (And I'm miles from Hogan, so don't misread that.)

 

 

So, you shank one ball and top the other. And to be clear, these are wiffle balls off carpet.

 

 

This shows us what, exactly?

 

Where's Ashton Kutcher?

 

I guarantee you Hogan doesn't hit it a perfectly as legend would tell it....no one does as we are all human and our bodies are in constant states of change.  I also find it amusing that you for some reason believe that you are the only person capable of hitting a levered golf shot and that because I am 5 that I have no clue what it feels like.  I will never impress you..but I will not be disrespectful to you because it doesn't prove anything.  I could literally play golf with you and shoot 70 anything and it wouldn't matter because you would just move the goal post.  I had an acquaintance that used to say "you aren't a real golfer until you can shoot in the seventies five times in a row," yet when I did it I somehow wasn't immediately christened a real golfer, but was relegated to being lucky. You would take this approach I assure you. My personal best for greens in regulation in a row is 13, and I have hit 9 in a row at least a dozen times so I feel that I can be trusted when I tell you that I strike more than one ball solid in a given round.  I seriously would quit golf if that were the case. 

 

The name of the video was called "engage the turf" and the purpose was to show that I get the club to the turf well behind the ball when I hit flop shots.  I wasn't concerned with where the first ball went but the second ball, which was the target ball, hit the ceiling and it is only about 7 feet in front of me and came off just I wanted it to.  It wasn't topped in the least bit but sure put your circles around the ball as you like thinking that it proves your point when it doesn't.  Then if I hit the shot from down the line to prove it you would just move the goal posts again. I hit the same shot on Trackman and put those numbers up also and my AoA was -1, so yes, very close to a topped shot, but that is the chance taken when hitting shots like that.  

 

This is the same shot hit with a real ball: 

 

Also if you think hitting whiffle balls invalidates a shot and believe that it wouldn't come off the same way hitting a real ball then that is the real root of your issue because the objective is to make your practice swing motion be your real swing motion.  Hitting whiffle balls gives no tactile feedback, but you still see the ball flight, thus they literally eliminated "hit reflex" that I used to have from being a baseball player.  You act like a whiffle ball knows it's a whiffle ball but it acts different because it knows it is being hit out off my living room carpet.  

 

21 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Copped from another thread. Yet another example showing that using the bounce properly does not entail engaging the turf well behind the ball. Just putting this here for future generations.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqvDUqLAmqF/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

WTF....you have got to be kidding me...so you are saying that he hit two balls, ball first?  That is the silliest thing you have ever posted on here and future generations will laugh at you.  Matter of fact I am not even going to comment any further on that and am just gonna let that post cook.  The first ball was struck with a much steeper AoA but the bounce did what it should have and didn't dig into the turf and slid along the surface then connected with the second ball. This isn't magic, it is using the club as it should be used.  

 

 

[Righty to Lefty]

42 minutes ago, Avidswampthing66 said:

I’m just going to drop this lil nugget by the wedge GOAT.  

RPReplay_Final1706835589.mov

 

[Avidswampthing66]

6 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

 

 😅 Yes.  I figured you would have nothing to add except a video you previously posted.  You do not actually acknowledge anything anyone else is saying.  But, let's use his own words anyway "you almost want it to feel like the bounce is hitting the ground before touching the ball."    -Billy Nipper

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I also find it amusing that you for some reason believe that you are the only person capable of hitting a levered golf shot and that because I am 5 that I have no clue what it feels like.

 

I don't know where you got that I said anything like that… cuz I haven't.

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I could literally play golf with you and shoot 70 anything and it wouldn't matter because you would just move the goal post.

 

I literally don't know what you're talking about, dude. My goal posts are grounded in the facts, the reality of what we do and how we swing.

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

<<< a bunch of stuff where R2L tries to seek my acceptance on one hand, tell me he doesn't need it on the other, all while assuming he knows exactly what I would do or how I would act when I got to witness a genuine (maybe?) five handicap, all while once again ignoring most of the salient points made against him. A fine distraction that may work on a five-year-old, but alas… something most here see through pretty easily. >>>

 

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

The name of the video was called "engage the turf" and the purpose was to show that I get the club to the turf well behind the ball when I hit flop shots. I wasn't concerned with where the first ball went but the second ball, which was the target ball, hit the ceiling and it is only about 7 feet in front of me and came off just I wanted it to.

 

You clearly shanked the first ball and topped the second one.

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

It wasn't topped in the least bit but sure put your circles around the ball as you like thinking that it proves your point when it doesn't.

 

The clubhead is above the ball. It's obscuring some of the ball, plus you can see it driven into the carpet and then it bounces up (which is why it's under the clubhead). You topped it.

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Then if I hit the shot from down the line to prove it you would just move the goal posts again.

 

Sorry you feel that way. I haven't moved the goalposts.

 

I also:

• have never said you can't hit a shot by hitting the ground early. I've shown me and my teaching partner hitting four and even five balls on a mat.
• have said repeatedly that I teach people to use the bounce, and I have for as long as I've been a teacher, having taught myself as a kid and arriving at a sort of quasi-Phil-Rodgers/Stan Utley style short game.
• have said that you can't really do this from outside of a "short game" shot, while your partner in crime claims to do it from 120 yards out, and you're busy posting pictures of your wedge with 45° of bounce and 94° loft.

I'm not moving the goalposts, my man. You're not even at the right field.

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I hit the same shot on Trackman and put those numbers up also and my AoA was -1, so yes, very close to a topped shot, but that is the chance taken when hitting shots like that.

 

 

That's not how AoA "works."

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Also if you think hitting whiffle balls invalidates a shot and believe that it wouldn't come off the same way hitting a real ball then that is the real root of your issue because the objective is to make your practice swing motion be your real swing motion.

Wiffle balls do not come off the club like a real ball. They don't spin like a real ball. They don't launch like a real ball. They don't fly like a real ball. Except for being roughly the same size, and round (almost), that's about all they have in common with a real ball.

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You act like a whiffle ball knows it's a whiffle ball but it acts different because it knows it is being hit out off my living room carpet.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

WTF....you have got to be kidding me...so you are saying that he hit two balls, ball first?

 

I think he's just showing an actual version of the video you tried to film, but without:

• off carpet
• with wiffle balls
• shanking one ball
• topping the other

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

[@PedronNiall:] That is the silliest thing you have ever posted on here and future generations will laugh at you.

 

So much for not being disrespectful to other posters.

[PedronNiall]

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I guarantee you Hogan doesn't hit it a perfectly as legend would tell it....no one does as we are all human and our bodies are in constant states of change.  I also find it amusing that you for some reason believe that you are the only person capable of hitting a levered golf shot and that because I am 5 that I have no clue what it feels like.  I will never impress you..but I will not be disrespectful to you because it doesn't prove anything.  I could literally play golf with you and shoot 70 anything and it wouldn't matter because you would just move the goal post.  I had an acquaintance that used to say "you aren't a real golfer until you can shoot in the seventies five times in a row," yet when I did it I somehow wasn't immediately christened a real golfer, but was relegated to being lucky. You would take this approach I assure you. My personal best for greens in regulation in a row is 13, and I have hit 9 in a row at least a dozen times so I feel that I can be trusted when I tell you that I strike more than one ball solid in a given round.  I seriously would quit golf if that were the case. 

 

The name of the video was called "engage the turf" and the purpose was to show that I get the club to the turf well behind the ball when I hit flop shots.  I wasn't concerned with where the first ball went but the second ball, which was the target ball, hit the ceiling and it is only about 7 feet in front of me and came off just I wanted it to.  It wasn't topped in the least bit but sure put your circles around the ball as you like thinking that it proves your point when it doesn't.  Then if I hit the shot from down the line to prove it you would just move the goal posts again. I hit the same shot on Trackman and put those numbers up also and my AoA was -1, so yes, very close to a topped shot, but that is the chance taken when hitting shots like that.  

 

This is the same shot hit with a real ball: 

 

Also if you think hitting whiffle balls invalidates a shot and believe that it wouldn't come off the same way hitting a real ball then that is the real root of your issue because the objective is to make your practice swing motion be your real swing motion.  Hitting whiffle balls gives no tactile feedback, but you still see the ball flight, thus they literally eliminated "hit reflex" that I used to have from being a baseball player.  You act like a whiffle ball knows it's a whiffle ball but it acts different because it knows it is being hit out off my living room carpet.  

 

WTF....you have got to be kidding me...so you are saying that he hit two balls, ball first?  That is the silliest thing you have ever posted on here and future generations will laugh at you.  Matter of fact I am not even going to comment any further on that and am just gonna let that post cook.  The first ball was struck with a much steeper AoA but the bounce did what it should have and didn't dig into the turf and slid along the surface then connected with the second ball. This isn't magic, it is using the club as it should be used.  

 

 

I don't think you understand the point of those exercises. It's not to demonstrate that you should engage the turf well behind the ball, it's to demonstrate that when the bounce is used properly one can strike ball first and maintain their path fully through impact without the club digging before the strike is finished.

 

Can you explain to me what would be gained by playing a shot as though the first ball isn't there and hoping the club stays perfectly on path the entire time vs striking a ball played from the first position?

 

Air offers a lot less resistance than dirt & grass, hence even Tiger teeing it up on par 3s and all of us who don't hate ourselves striking ball first instead hoping the skidding sole doesn't encounter something between turf entry and the ball 6 inches down the road. 

 

Not only do you refuse to ever admit when you're wrong but you have difficulty seeing the forest for the trees so you miss out on the boon the right amount of bounce actually offers all players in the right circumstances. Take that oil tanker of a wedge to some hardpan and you'll find out the fun way trying to engage well before the ball is a ticket to nowhere good. I would love, love, love to see you manage even two shots in a row off a super firm tight lie with your 6 inch behind magic. 

 

Keep in mind someone or another will be zooming in, so don't embarrass yourself as before and turn out to be hitting ball-first like a normal person. You still have some work to do on completing Trackman requests, but I'm sure you'll get around to it at some point.

 

P.S. your numbers posted above do not align with the kind of shot you're claiming to be pulling off.

[Righty to Lefty]

1 hour ago, Avidswampthing66 said:

 😅 Yes.  I figured you would have nothing to add except a video you previously posted.  You do not actually acknowledge anything anyone else is saying.  But, let's use his own words anyway "you almost want it to feel like the bounce is hitting the ground before touching the ball."    -Billy Nipper

He then hit the ground behind the ball. His feel was real...like how I did that? I used to leading edge chip and such when I played right handed. I later found out that it isn't the most efficient way. I didn't say it is wrong....it just isnt the most efficient method available and I dont have time for less efficient methods when it's hard enough to get proficient at the most efficient methods.  I got a serious question....why don't you hit your green side bunker shots ball first? 

Edited February 3, 2024 by Righty to Lefty

[Avidswampthing66]

8 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

He then hit the ground behind the ball. His feel was real...like how I did that? I used to leading edge chip and such when I played right handed. I later found out that it isn't the most efficient way. I didn't say it is wrong....it just isnt the most efficient method available and I dont have time for less efficient methods when it's hard enough to get proficient at the most efficient methods.  I got a serious question....why don't you hit your green side bunker shots ball first? 

Because, I want the actual grains of sand to push the ball out for me.   Two very different things, unless of course, you would like the chunked dirt to push the ball forward.  I'm out on this thread tho.  It was mildly entertaining.  Good luck.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, PedronNiall said:

Not only do you refuse to ever admit when you're wrong but you have difficulty seeing the forest for the trees so you miss out on the boon the right amount of bounce actually offers all players in the right circumstances. Take that oil tanker of a wedge to some hardpan and you'll find out the fun way trying to engage well before the ball is a ticket to nowhere good. I would love, love, love to see you manage even two shots in a row off a super firm tight lie with your 6 inch behind magic. 

QFT.

 

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I got a serious question....why don't you hit your green side bunker shots ball first? 

The fact that you see that as a “serious question” says a lot.

[cav5]

Work probz wasnt able to play. I will post where I can spray paint a line or something. Just followed this guy I like it. My 120 yard shot is basically that 1in behind. More room as the face opens for shorter shots. Seems like this is a big discussion amongst the social media gurus.

 

i don’t really know his method but am guessing it’s a shallowed arc approach. Kind of a pivot arm sync. But this is where you now have to control arc depth too much for my liking. And unless your normal

swing is similar it’s hard. 
 

He’s basically talking around what R2L built his idea from with the 1-2in “fat” shot. The consistency he talks about is what I refer to as breakeven. We just operate and use wedges with enough bounce to succeed from there from the get-go. Not as a fail safe. This is what’s missing from the convo. 

 

I basically used that method with okay results but that shalllowness always felt too different and drop kicky to my stock swing. 
 

We aren’t doing much different besides just building a sufficient wedge setup for our likened steepness.

 

I like the head receiving the distal speed as it feels like a normal swing. Mayos way halts the clubs rotation and the arc goes too linear for my liking. 
 

Done with the arguing. Actually I have better practice ideas for full swing you can critique in another thread if you want at some point on how to really get your game from the range to box. At some point R2L will post a vid of him soft flopping his alien off a tight lie and some of you will buy-in. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2-NAfNRE8D/?igsh=cXp2YWl1bDFydmN2

[johnrobison]

21 minutes ago, cav5 said:

He’s basically talking around what R2L built his idea from with the 1-2in “fat” shot.

He's talking about mitigating the mishit. He called an inch or two behind the ball a mishit. He used the word mishit twice. 🤦‍♂️

[iacas]

The disagreements in this topic seem to deal with two three things, primarily:

• Videos (or photos) that do not show what they purport to show, or which are not in any way real-world conditions. Not hitting behind the ball on a 55-yard shot, a wedge that only has 45° of bounce when it has 94° of loft, a shanked and topped shot that is supposedly "perfect," etc.
• Straw men, where one side acts like the other side is saying you never use the bounce, you never hit behind the ball, that it's not even possible to hit a good shot that way… etc. That's not being said at all.
• BS about hitting 1-2" behind the ball (or intentionally 6" behind the ball) on shots out to 120+ yards. Simply doesn't happen. Not on purpose, and not if we're talking about the actual turf. Distance wedges are not intentionally hit behind the ball.

As always, I encourage people to learn both ends of the short game spectrum (or all three points of the triangle if you view it more that way, or the square, or whatever), and realize that most shots will be somewhere in the middle of the "shape" you choose.

[cav5]

29 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

He's talking about mitigating the mishit. He called an inch or two behind the ball a mishit. He used the word mishit twice. 🤦‍♂️

Dude read what I wrote. I said we are operating from where he calls fat/mishit and using wedge/bounce/technique/motion whatever you need to call it to succeed from there. Mishit to him, correct to us.

 

I don't subscribe to shortgamechefs technique but its his methods fail safe like I said. If it makes you happy take this- we take our swings steepness, arc depth, match bounce with early engagement, to play purposefully from that spot. I don't get the point of fighting it. The dude literally said his players hit the unintentional, unfocused, fats, to 4 feet. We just optimize from there.

[GoGoErky]

1 minute ago, cav5 said:

Dude read what I wrote. I said we are operating from where he calls fat/mishit and using wedge/bounce/technique/motion whatever you need to call it to succeed from there. Mishit to him, correct to us.

 

I don't subscribe to shortgamechefs technique but its his methods fail safe like I said. If it makes you happy take this- we take our swings steepness, arc depth, match bounce with early engagement, to play purposefully from that spot. I don't get the point of fighting it. The dude literally said his players hit the unintentional, unfocused, fats, to 4 feet. We just optimize from there.

It’s a mishit for everyone. I have no intention if hitting a 120 yard wedge 1” behind the ball. I want ball then turf not turf then ball on those shots 

[cav5]

1 minute ago, GoGoErky said:

It’s a mishit for everyone. I have no intention if hitting a 120 yard wedge 1” behind the ball. I want ball then turf not turf then ball on those shots 

No, a mishit would be if the ball didn't end up near the target on trajectory. Boom roasted

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, cav5 said:

This is what’s missing from the convo.